SPOILERS FFVII Remake Frustration Expression Thread (*Open Spoilers*)

[LicoriceAllsorts]

That cartoon explains exactly what I was trying to say about the role FFVII allowed to our imagination.
Even though the sprites in the OG were little and blocky, they were still very successful at conveying emotion. We might be able to see more emotion in the faces of the remake characters, but I'm not convinced that means we will feel more emotion as a result.

 

[oty]

I think it's more subjective. If you look at a technical point of view, a more fluid and realistic animation should convey much more emotion and much more efficiently than an, let's call it "older" animation. But that's not how it exactly works. Context is very important. That's why to some people, the original is still touching and emotional, and to others it's blocky and stiff, feels old and thus they dont connect to characters or situations. Even if you take into consideration time, and go back to 1997, there were people who still couldn't get into the blocky visuals and thus never felt a lot of the emotion. And I'm mostly talking about people who enjoyed the game, since if there isnt any enjoyment then most likely there was no connection in the first place.

In my opinion, I would say better animations broaden the audience who can connect to the characters. It's simply easier to see a crying face and feel sad, to most people. But animations can be the tip of the iceberg or the main focus of conveying emotion. And most of the time, it takes multiple efforts to do such thing. Music, scenario direction, even pacing and structure of a narrative. I believe the Remake is going to trade a lot of the comical nature and the innocence of the "chibi" visuals for a more realistic and human approach, but if that's going to pay off.....then I don't know. And if it's going to bring a touching story like the original, then animations will only be a part of how they manage to do that.

 

[Rydeen]

As great as the original animations were in conveying the characters' unique mannerisms and emotions in the game (I'm thinking especially of Heidegger when the cannon is fired), I think nostalgia also plays a part in how those blocky animations are so evocative. Many of us played this game during pivotal points in our lives, and no fancy realism can truly go toe to toe with that.

 

[Makoeyes987]

In my opinion, I would say better animations broaden the audience who can connect to the characters. It's simply easier to see a crying face and feel sad, to most people.

Ahh but there's the paradox.

When you add more detail and realism, there's more room for criticism. That's why the simplicity gains a broader audience.

With simplicity, the message conveyed is instantly understood. Any holes in the details or form are filled in by the viewer themselves. That's why the comic says, we inhabit the vacuum provided by those comics/cartoons.

And that fact is so noticeable in regards to so many criticisms about VII. "X doesn't behave like that! I never imagined them moving like that! Why are they coming off so Y? Why is their voice so Z??" Etc etc.

The fact of the matter is, through a combination of time, nostalgia and simplicity, there are a lot of interpretations or understandings of VII that didn't originate from VII... They were injected into the narrative subconsciously by its players and then taken back in by them as fact. The passage of time coupled with nostalgia only serves to cement those preconceived notions.

Which is why the FFVII Remake, no matter how good it's gameplay, how well done its animations are, how stellar it's plot, how perfectly directed and thought out everything in it is...

Will inevitably be hated or chided by some. Because it can't simultaneously match the original image of all its fans, while being a higher fidelity story with modern graphics and aesthetics. Something's gonna get lost, to somebody.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I'll be honest... I don't care at all for the "cutcenes" and the animation of the OG. I'd go so far to say that I prefer the scripts without the cutcenes because of how much the character models look like... something Picasso would come up with if he was a movie director. I'd much rather have a script and be able to imagine the scene in my head with cutscenes of that quality. My imagination does a million times better then the OG at... pretty much everything when it comes to graphics.

And you know... the cutscenes we've seen from the Remake so far are pretty dang close to what I was imagining in my head. Close enough that so far, what has me most excited about the Remake is the art direction. Nine times out of ten, how the characters look in the Remake look exactly how I thought they would have looked if they weren't something out of a cubist painting. And the stuff that isn't how I imagined it would be is close enough that I want to see where it ends up going.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Well, there you go. I love the OG cutscenes. Sapphire Weapon's attack on Junon still gives me chills every time I watch it.

 

[looneymoon]

I'm incredibly critical of square enix and don't really think they've made anything very good in at least 15 years.

That being said, I am super hype for what I've seen so far. Square's handling of the FF7 through the 2000s was beyond tacky, but with the landscape of gaming today, seeing a game company actually taking into consideration what their fans want is a giant breath of fresh air.

I am not sure the AAA format was ever going to produce the FF7 remake I personally imagined. Gaming has changed way too much since 1997. FF7 helped take video game's initial steps into full-blown, cinematic storytelling. It was never going to be the same from a narrative standpoint, and it doesn't surprise me that the story has been restructured significantly as a result.

From what I've seen so far, the production of this game is coming from a place of genuine love for the original. That's all I'm really asking for going in. There's a little part of me that hopes this game will make Square return to form as they were in the 90s-early 2000s, but I realize that's asking for a lot lol.

 

[looneymoon]

that being said this guy can get lost



square i defended u for once please don't terrorize me with this scrappy-doo mullet

 

[oty]

I actually really liked his voice tho lmao

And ngl, having a 1v1 with him as Cloud does seem enticing... But yea the visuals and the Bike showoff stuff....not a huge fan

 

[Roundhouse]

I actually never wanted a remake. I was convinced that they would mess it up, and voice acting alone was a worrying factor for me. (For reasons that people here and elsewhere have already touched on.)

So far, though, I'm actually surprised at how good it looks, aside from the release in parts style. The voice acting is variable, but I can just switch to Japanese I guess. Obviously I need to see much more before making a decision, but so far I'm hopeful that it will at least be a very good effort to match the original. I don't see it surpassing it, but that's okay with me, because from the very start I didn't think they could do that anyway.

Also...I actually sort of like Roche, judging by the recent trailer. I like that he's just this annoying, cocky guy desperate to show off against Cloud. Whether he remains fun like that in the actual game is another story.

 

[Ite]

Roche and the Ghosts is an incredible band-name and also if I could shove them all onto a tour bus to nowheresville I would.

....Andre can stay.

 

[ForceStealer]

Named SOLDIERs seem like a fine addition to me, as long as they aren't connected to the main plot, we don't need everyone connected. But SOLDIERs being cocky and vainglorious, and itching for a fight with this rumored ex-1st Class seems like a fun way to flesh out the Shinra military.

 

[Theozilla]

Fun bit of trivia, apparently Roche’s Japanese voice actor is also the same person who voices All Might in the My Hero Academia anime.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

Guess that explains why he yells "MY FRIEND" in English :/

The random English works for All-Might, but I'm so sure about Roche...

 

[Makoeyes987]

He's supposed to sound camp and hot-blooded.

Which makes his previous voice work hilariously on brand.

But I think there's definitely more than meets the eye with Roche. It's apparent from the trailer he's more than capable of turning the camp off when he's actually intending to throw down.

I'd imagine he probably will be Cloud's first true tests of skills.

Cause' everybody gansta until SOLDIER starts walkin'

 

[Roundhouse]

There is certainly more than meets the eye to Roche. His full name will be revealed as Kunsel Roche, a Shinra SOLDIER trying to channel the personality of his late friend Zack. Which makes the Cloud one on one even more interesting...

(Before anyone starts shouting, I'm just joking!)

 

[Ite]

Named SOLDIERs seem like a fine addition to me, as long as they aren't connected to the main plot, we don't need everyone connected. But SOLDIERs being cocky and vainglorious, and itching for a fight with this rumored ex-1st Class seems like a fun way to flesh out the Shinra military.

You’re so right. I actually like what I’ve seen from Roche so far, except actually LOOKING at him lol. ah well we can’t all be Andre

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Killing Roach will be a pleasure.

(Can it be a total accident that he works for the King Vermin and he has a vermin name?)

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Current complaint about the music...

It fails the "Grab my attention in 60sec" metric I have for video-game music. Like it or not... video-game music tracks are not listened to for long periods of time usually and when they are listened to, there's a lot of other stuff on screen competing for the players attention. So if they don't get around to their theme fast enough... then the player can skip whole sections of the theme. This is especially true of non-battle themes.

Also... the intro to Tifa's Theme should not remind me of a mash-up between "Faltering Prayer - Starry Sky (from Neir: Automana)" and "Eyes On Me (from FFVIII)". The intro to Flowers Blooming in the Church sounds like the start of "Significance - Nothing (from Neir: Automana). At least until the main themes of both those songs kick in. Which is something like... 25 sec into Tifa's Theme and 45 sec into Flowers Blooming in the Church.

Hurry! and the Turk's Theme don't have that problem since they start right in on their main themes immediately. Which is funny, given that in the OG, both of those themes have short intros at the start of their tracks. Hurry! has a short 5 sec intro, while the Turk's theme has 15sec of nothing but the finger-snap and the drum kit before the main theme kicks in.

I kinda really hope that me getting reminded of other video-game music is just because I listen to a lot of video game music. That said, the reason I was reminded of those particular peices was because their chord tranistions and orchestration choices were... ridiculously close. On the other hand, Nier: Automana has a lot of orchestra-only music and that's how I would describe all the new Remake music that has come out so far...

Really, the last thing I would want to say is that the Remake music reminds me of another game franchise's music (and a franchise that is known for it's unique music style). But One-Winged Angel would fit pretty neatly into NieR: Automana's soundtrack if I didn't know better. At least, the versions of One-Winged Angel that don't have any rock elements in them... Make most of the FFVII be orchestrated and not much else and... it does sound a lot like the NieR franchise's OSTs.

 

[Legend]

Was it ever hinted in the original that Tifa didn't approve of the reactor bombings? Her description on the FFVIIR website states that "she is not convinced that bombing mako reactors is the solution". Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with this (as she probably did feel this way in the original, even if wasn't explicitly shown), but I also feel like it was added to make her seem "less guilty" of AVALANCHE's actions.

Even in the E3 trailer, it was revealed that she was having second thoughts about joining AVALANCHE. She says, "I know we have to think big if we're going to make a difference, but not like this. I just... I feel trapped." The way she expresses remorse wasn't in the original.

It's a welcome change for me, but again, I really feel like SE did this to make her a better person, most likely because she has such a large fanbase.

 

[CaptainLayla2006]

The original is full of wacky stuff that made no sense that they didn't trouble themselves to explain

Like, why is there a drop chute that leads from an amusement park straight down to a desert prison?
Is it a private prison?
How often does Dio drop people down there?
Why is Ester allowed to recruit chocobo jockeys from the prison?
Why is that the only way out?
Why does Cloud put the urgent hunt for Sephiroth on hold while he breeds and trains four generations of chocobos?
How did Shera escape alive from the ignition sequence? That rocket actually took off before Cid shut it down.
Why is the back door to Shinra, Inc. left unlocked?
And this

TANKCERATOPS

 

[CaptainLayla2006]

TANKCERATOPS

Sorry, I had to make a reference to FFVII Machinabridged.

 

[Eerie]

Speaking of Tifa, I'm very annoyed by her character model. More precisely, with her face. The last HD picture from SE reminds me of this, but also the latest trailer: one moment she looks fine, then she turns her head, the angle change and she looks not really like herself. The other models don't have this trouble, but Tifa's face never looks twice the same, and as a big Tifa fan, that's something that really strikes me because I do pay a lot of attention to her face.

 

[FFShinra]

Maybe thats why they extended it a month, to fix that and other areas of polish. Given how popular Tifa herself is, that actually wouldn't surprise me as tongue in cheek as my suggestion is.

 

[Ite]

So there is some real AC Complete timeskipping bullcrockery happening in this new (god-I-can’t-believe-it’s-gonna-be-the-definitive) intro. We’re 500 years in the future, then we’re in modern day Midgar, then we’re decades in the past before the Plate goes up... Meanwhile Carmina Burana lyrics are wafting through because Carmina Burana is Sephiroth now, and Sephiroth is FF7 now. By the time it zooms out to Midgar, I’m already overstimulated and underwhelmed. The E3 trailer had more gravitas than the actual game.

Square, y u do this?