SPOILERS FFVII Remake Frustration Expression Thread (*Open Spoilers*)

[cold_spirit]

Are you talking about the Remake's opening movie @Mr. Ite? I did not get the impression of time skipping at all. When does it show anything from 500 years in the future? It's a continuous scene. Bird flies in from the wasteland, we see an advanced metropolitan sector of Midgar, we move to the streets to see continuing construction, then kids watch a reactor start up. The only "time skip" is when it moves to nighttime for the bombing mission.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Are you talking about the Remake's opening movie? The only "time skip" is when it moves to nighttime for the bombing mission.

The scene proceeding the already seen portions from the OG depict Midgar before it fully became a plated city. It's Midgar before it fully became the metropolis we know in VII.

The Sector Six park, Green Park, is shown in that portion of the opening clean and uncovered. There's no plate above that area while children are playing but then we flash forward upon the reactor's activation.

 

[Tetsujin]

It's all present day upper plate. The playground has the same style slide but it's a different one that exists on the plate.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's all present day upper plate. The playground has the same slide but it's a different one.

... Wow, you're right. I thought it was the same due to the slide, but the other playground fixtures from Sector 6's park are missing. Good eye!

So it is all the upper plate. I thought it was a transition shot showing Midgar past and then present but it's a showcase of Midgar in day, then night.

 

[FFShinra]

methinks 500 years later, they'll show even more greenery to contrast further from the sheer vastness of the wasteland.

 

[Suzaku]

methinks 500 years later, they'll show even more greenery to contrast further from the sheer vastness of the wasteland.

I mean, can't really speculate on what they'd do, but if I were directing, I'd be tempted to completely recut the ending to be a reverse of the opening.

Start by intercutting the a long zoom out of the canyon with quick shots of Nanaki and his cubs running, pulling way out until you clearly see Midgar in the distance, zoom in on Red XIII and his cubs overlooking the city, then when he roars and the birds take flight, transition to birds flying through the city over ruined a mako reactors, show scenes of wildlife overtaking the roads and skyscrapers, and perhaps close on a shot of a flower blooming on a street corner, or maybe pan up to a sunset -> starfield. Or even a foreboding shot of a black feather falling into a puddle.

Something like that, anyway.

Would also be kind of cool to maybe do something completely new, like reveal Edge 500 years in the future with humans now living at one with nature, with a completely new kind of society, architecture, fashion, etc -- something both futuristic and tribal, maybe.

 

[looneymoon]

the opening is meant to parallel the ending scene with Red, but there are no actual time skips as far as I can tell o_O

 

[LNK]

the opening is meant to parallel the ending scene with Red, but there are no actual time skips as far as I can tell o_O

Have they said it is? Unless SE has said it does, my guess is it's just the surrounding area from the OG. It's just showing how much the siphoning of Mako has destroyed it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

They don't have to say it. It's apparent.

Look at that opening sequence. Then look at the final scene of the ending of VII. There's a clear thematic parallel which makes sense. The story begins and ends with Midgar. They're leaning into that.

I was mistaken (which to be fair, quite a few others were) in thinking we saw a flash back of Midgar's beginning but it's merely the upper plate during daylight.

 

[pxp]

There were a lot of people on gfaqs arguing it was a series of vignettes of Midgars development, some arguing that the kids on the bikes were dressed like slum-dwellers, others that it was the Sector 6 playground and even someone who said that the blonde girl was a young Aerith!

So I made this mock up to show roughly where the kids are standing on the upper plate in relation to Sector 5 Reactor (blue arrows). (I also showed the Sector 7 ruins for some perspective, and to point out that most of the length of the Reactor shafts fall under the plate (blue circles)).

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

That is dedication.

 

[pxp]

That is dedication.

It's hardly in @Vyzzuvazzadth's league!!

 

[Lex]

There were a lot of people on gfaqs arguing it was a series of vignettes of Midgars development, some arguing that the kids on the bikes were dressed like slum-dwellers, others that it was the Sector 6 playground and even someone who said that the blonde girl was a young Aerith!

So I made this mock up to show roughly where the kids are standing on the upper plate in relation to Sector 5 Reactor (blue arrows). (I also showed the Sector 7 ruins for some perspective, and to point out that most of the length of the Reactor shafts fall under the plate (blue circles)).View attachment 4774

I live for shit like this. This is the kind of stuff we want on the front page

 

[LNK]

They don't have to say it. It's apparent.

Look at that opening sequence. Then look at the final scene of the ending of VII. There's a clear thematic parallel which makes sense. The story begins and ends with Midgar. They're leaning into that.

I was mistaken (which to be fair, quite a few others were) in thinking we saw a flash back of Midgar's beginning but it's merely the upper plate during daylight.

It's only apparent if you're thinking they're leaning in that direction. Not everyone is though.

I think they're just showing how dreadful the land is surrounding Midgar to show the negative effects Mako has had.

 

[Makoeyes987]

...So it just coincidentally uses the same pan shots, angling, scenery and has a bird flying in the same direction of Midgar as an ending?

The director who did the same shot in Advent Children and worked on the game with the exact ending just by happen-stance created a near verbatim duplicate opening shot, except instead of a flock of healthy birds, it's one sickly, dirty bird?

I think they're just showing how dreadful the land is surrounding Midgar to show the negative effects Mako has had.

They can do both.

 

[LNK]

...So it just coincidentally uses the same pan shots, angling, scenery and has a bird flying in the same direction of Midgar as an ending?

The director who did the same shot in Advent Children and worked on the game with the exact ending just by happen-stance created a near verbatim duplicate opening shot, except instead of a flock of healthy birds, it's one sickly, dirty bird?



They can do both.

Maybe they just wanted to use that as a normal intro, instead of a what's in the future.
I would think that if this was the future, they would've used healthy birds again. The healthy birds represented that mako wasn't being used anymore

 

[Makoeyes987]

Maybe they just wanted to use that as a normal intro, instead of a what's in the future.
I would think that if this was the future, they would've used healthy birds again. The healthy birds represented that mako wasn't being used anymore

I think you've misunderstood what I've said.

Its definitely not the future, that's not what I or anyone else is saying. And how could it be? Its the present. I'm saying the shot is purposefully directed to mimic the camera angle and layout of VII's ending.

 

[LNK]

I definitely misunderstood what you said! A few others thought it was depicting a future Midgar. I thought you were agreeing with that. I get what you're saying now

 

[Ite]

All I know is that this is a way weaker introduction. A montage filled with vaguaries and allusions is just so much less interesting that a starfield. I said it earlier, but it bears repeating: by the time I see Aerith’s face I’m already overstimulated. The original opening is iconic because it was good. Changing it just to make it new only works *while it’s new.*

 

[oty]

It definitely didnt change to just make it new tho. Even if the main objective was just to make a visually interesting segment, thats a hell of an objective if the end product is competent enough. If you compare starfield vs midgar introduction, the latter beats the former in a lot of subjects. Let's just be real, if you could go back and ask people if they would rather have a rendered cutscene or a starfield in the first seconds of your game, what do you think people's answer was gonna be? The problem is that we already experienced the starfield alternative. And it was damn good, and it became iconic. When you change that, you are not competing Midgar x Starfield (bc that would be unfair). You are competing the direction each one implies, and that where it gets tricky.

 

[Makoeyes987]

To play devil's advocate however, sometimes less is more. I personally agree with you but at the same time, I can at least understand the perspective of not being down for additional exposition. It's a matter of taste and what it is that's being expanded. Direction and scene composition is one of the hardest careers and art skills to master because in the end it will always be at the mercy of subjective audience taste. That's why I said before that it literally doesn't matter how good or how much effort is put into this Remake. By the very premise of it's existence it simply cannot chart a path that will please every single person who experiences it. It simply won't be able to.

 

[Ite]

@oty To be “real” it feels like they had a lot of extra footage lying around from teaser trailers and promo material that they couldn’t fit anywhere else.

What’s visually interesting =/= what’s right for the story. Mako ninja’d me but I must say, yes, less is more. I would much rather use the first 30 seconds to “do nothing” if it establishes a tone and mystery that is resolved by the opening shot of the mysterious woman in the big... bigger... enormous black city. To me, that’s the slam-dunk opening of FFVII. Not what I’m seeing.

 

[oty]

Well, by what we saw from this game....this opening is completely right for this story. The focus on the scope of the world, the cinematic music that mixes the chants and the main theme.....and of course, the Sephiroth allusions. A recurring element from this game. Not FFVII....but FFVIIR.

 

[Ite]

On that we agree. This falls on its face as a remake from the word go. It guarantees that I’ll be actively trying to dissuade new players from trying the remake until they’ve played the OG, which is not what I flippin wanted to do.

Edit: After chilling out a bit, I would change my phrasing here to “This definitively refuses to be a faithful remake from the word go.”

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Like I said... on an intellectual level, I get what they are trying to do with the new opening. From an emotional level, I don't think it works.

Too many "set the stage" type cut-scenes use a long pan into the city where the story takes place to introduce the setting. It emotionally does nothing for me because it's generic and I've seen similar cut-scenes a million times before. It's not "special" except on a meta level because I already know what the ending cut-scene if the game is.

That is a far cry from why the opening of the OG felt "special". The OG's opening is memorable because it is not a standard opening cut-scene. Most movies and games do not start out with starfileds resolving into a person's face! It also immediately put attention on Aerith so that the next time we saw her, we knew she was important.Now she's just one more person in Midgar.

In short, the new opening gives up being interesting from an artistic perspective to being interesting from a meta perspective. It makes the opening of the Remake feel less like a Final Fantasy opening and more like any other average action movie/game opening. And I find that very disappointing.