Final Fantasy VII: The First Soldier

[TurquoiseHammer]

He means like a clone from birth, not just the Sephiroth Copy he is in the OG.

Is it remotely possible this guy is Cloud's father? Technically, yes, I think so. All we know is Cloud's dad disappeared when he was young while up in the mountains and everyone presumed he was dead. Unless I'm forgetting something else in the new novella. How on earth he'd end up in the SOLDIER program is beyond me, though.

Do I think Nibelheim was a big Truman show type Shinra experiment even before the incident with Sephiroth? No. I also don't think it would have any narrative payoff to reveal that Cloud has been a genetic experiment from the beginning. Part of his whole appeal is that he's a weakling who became strong not by some superman gene-splicing program but from confronting his own failures and gathering strength from and lending strength to the companions around him. Assuming Remake follows the OG in at least some vague narrative sense, it would be a real downer to discover Cloud is in fact not a straight up fabrication by Hojo and then to be let down by finding out he's a different kind of clone altogether.

 

[Odysseus]

I don't want to spoil anybody's fun, but I really think this is the last game you should read anything into or expect to give you anything of actual substance to think about. Saying that a Square Enix character looks like another Square Enix character is like saying the sky is blue lol.

 

[Thenir]

Yeah, I wouldn't put too much weight on physical similarities - btw I don't even see them that similar aside being both blond, to be honest.
Then...I think there's no point in "elevating" Cloud's status as the son of a SOLDIER. For me he works well the way he is without linking his merits to parental genetics.

Moreover - a moral issue - Claudia got pregnant when she was 16. If this man was in his 20s at the beginning of the SOLDIERs program he would have been around 30 when Cloud was born. I can already hear people kick up a fuss.

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

Obviously agree, though the fact they're going to have their own Ever Crisis chapter opens the door a tiny bit for speculation.

I think the helicopter scene is set in roughly 1989 (2007 - 30 + 12), so Cloud would be about 3 years old at that time. So it just barely works with the existing chronology. Still, I can't see any reason they'd write that in other than cheap shock value.

 

[Odysseus]

Also worth mentioning that the fate of Cloud's dad is sort of an open mystery in the Tifa novel.

 

[Makoeyes987]

People still thinking Cloud's a biological clone, in 2021?

Goddamn, the FFVII OG localization is the curse that keeps on giving.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The localization was overall fine. At least on this particular matter.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I was speaking more along the lines of calling Cloud and the Sephiroth Copies, "clones." There's a whole sci-fi preconception loaded into the word "clone" that includes that genetic copy component that still trips people up

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

I don't disagree but just to be clear, the author of the theory isn't talking about the Sephiroth Copy project. He's putting forth a totally different hypothesis that Cloud was a test tube experimental baby made with blond helicopter dude's DNA. I think. I should probably watch the whole video lol but I find it so hard to watch YouTube format theory vids, with Sleepezi being maybe the sole exception.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Pretty sure he's making that theory in part because Cloud is repeatedly called a clone throughout FFVII. Like, that whole connection places the seed for that kind of thinking. I don't think they made that theory in a vacuum.

 

[Thenir]

I think the helicopter scene is set in roughly 1989 (2007 - 30 + 12), so Cloud would be about 3 years old at that time. So it just barely works with the existing chronology. Still, I can't see any reason they'd write that in other than cheap shock value

Spoiler: Trace of two pasts spoiler

The novel states that Cloud's father disappeared on Mt Nibel when he was still a baby, implying his death. Normally I'd take into account the hypothesis this is just a red herring - that he just left his family and he'll appear again - but his death fits perfectly the motivations behind Cloud's behaviour the day of the accident on Mt Nibel, the mount itself as a symbol of death and the overall FF7 theme of "meeting again in the afterlife".

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

Okay, I'm taking the bullet and watching the vid.

-Ray doesn't realize that Nomura pointed out the helicopter trio will be named characters with their own content, so he actually has more of an incentive to theorize than he thinks
-Surface level, what if blond guy is Cloud's dad?
-Going deeper, what if Cloud's dad wasn't his biological dad? He has a mom, but he was the result of Shinra trying to reproduce the process that made Sephiroth using blondie's sperm in the way Hojo's sperm were presumably used for Sephiroth
-Nibelheim is a very X-files-esque Truman Show type horror show even before Cloud's birth, after Shinra presumably wrested it from the Junon Republic. So, even before Sephiroth burned it down, it was already inhabited by Shinra employees acting at being residents
-Cloud will uncover more about this stuff when he visits Nibelheim, not just the Sephiroth Copy experiment evidence
-This serves as part of the new basis for Cloud's identity crisis. Jenovaroth points it out and Vincent seems to know about it because the experiment would have been ongoing when he was a Turk (although that doesn't actually line up chronologically)
-This would explain how Cloud had the strength to send Sephiroth into the Lifestream

There's a million things I find farfetched about this theory, but if I had to choose one it's the needless layering of gotcha genetic experiments. Everyone and their mother has wondered at some point whether there was something special about Cloud that allowed him to counter Sephiroth in the reactor, but most people over time come to agree that Cloud's relative mediocrity is pivotal to who he is as a character. Adding some weird superhuman backstory would completely dismantle that and jeopardize what fans love about him and his narrative arc.

 

[ForceStealer]

Pleeeeaase let Cloud's dad just be a normal guy.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Cloud's dad ain't no damn SOLDIER, lol

WTF is that speculation, that's...farfetched beyond belief.

In fact, I'd say that theory is essentially composed of G-Substance.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Since all blondes are related, Cloud is actually another one of President Shinra’s illegitimate sons

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

If I had to guess I'd say the helicopter trio are just going to be the party we use during the Ever Crisis chapter that covers the SOLDIER recruitment time period, and maybe some of the Wutai War when we witness Sephiroth. Unless we play as Sephiroth during that chapter, which would be sick. Maybe kid Sephiroth is the final boss and he wipes out the trio on orders from Shinra because they've learned something sensitive, or are trying to defect, or else have just served their purpose for the company.

Or--and this is opening up a whole 'nother can of worms about whether the details of Project G have been retconned in Remake--they'll suffer from degradation and substantiate President Shinra's seemingly baseless claim in Chapter 7.

 

[Thenir]

Poor Cloud, doesn't he already have enough traumas to cope with?

 

[Odysseus]

Don't go getting worried because some guy on Youtube has some baseless speculation lol.

 

[Shademp]

Pleeeeaase let Cloud's dad just be a normal guy.

Oh his dad is definitely just a normal guy...but Cloud's grandfather is Emperor Palpatine.

 

[Eerie]

Spoiler: Trace of two pasts spoiler

The novel states that Cloud's father disappeared on Mt Nibel when he was still a baby, implying his death. Normally I'd take into account the hypothesis this is just a red herring - that he just left his family and he'll appear again - but his death fits perfectly the motivations behind Cloud's behaviour the day of the accident on Mt Nibel, the mount itself as a symbol of death and the overall FF7 theme of "meeting again in the afterlife".

It's my belief that maybe we'll find out more about Cloud's dad in the moutains. Aka he met some experiment and died there, or was taken hostage to be experimented on. Cloud's dad liking to discover the world is a clear parallel with Cloud himself and his delivery service post OG, but just like Cloud does normally, his dad was supposed to come back but ended up dying in a horrible way because of Shinra. That's my theory about him. We'll definitely find out more in Remake, Nojima didn't leave that door grand opened for nothing.

As I read the Kids are Alright novella, I understood why people thought Cloud might be President Shinra's son (he and Evan are really similar in character), but that's BS IMHO, that's completely misunderstanding the parallels Nojima wanted to draw. Cloud's story works because he is a NOBODY.

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

It's my belief that maybe we'll find out more about Cloud's dad in the moutains. Aka he met some experiment and died there, or was taken hostage to be experimented on. Cloud's dad liking to discover the world is a clear parallel with Cloud himself and his delivery service post OG, but just like Cloud does normally, his dad was supposed to come back but ended up dying in a horrible way because of Shinra. That's my theory about him. We'll definitely find out more in Remake, Nojima didn't leave that door grand opened for nothing.

As I read the Kids are Alright novella, I understood why people thought Cloud might be President Shinra's son (he and Evan are really similar in character), but that's BS IMHO, that's completely misunderstanding the parallels Nojima wanted to draw. Cloud's story works because he is a NOBODY.

That was also my gut reaction when I read ToTP. And the first place my mind went was that Cloud's father is Sephiroth Copy (or whatever they'll be called in Remake) #1. That may sound ridiculous, and I mean it totally is, but hear me out.

In the OG continuity, Hojo located Gast at Icicle Inn in about 1983, then waits roughly two years until Aerith is born to kill Gast and take away Ifalna and Aerith. We don't know when exactly Hojo learned Jenova wasn't an Ancient, but imo it's either at the same time Gast does (which I'd assume is around 1982 or 1983) or after reading Gast's research in 1985. If the latter is true, he may have then begun his Reunion experiment in the following years (in the Remake continuity, that is), with his first samples coming out in the late 80s, which is right about when Cloud's dad disappeared.

Why not Sephiroth Copy #2, who we've already seen? Sephiroth Copy #2 is said to have been a SOLDIER, and I just don't see Cloud's dad abandoning his family (or being coerced to abandon them) as well as having the rare mental and physical faculties to become a SOLDIER. Just way too out there imo. It seems more likely that #2 will turn out to be the blond helicopter dude, if anyone.

 

[Makoeyes987]

And why would Hojo be prowling the mountains looking for half dead hikers all alone in the wilderness, when he could simply lift failed candidates from SOLDIER, poor Shinra employees and those wounded from war that are sent directly to the Science Dept for medical care? They're right there. He doesn't even have to look. Picturing the Past shows us this. Deepground shows us this.

The only reason this theorizing exists is to give Cloud's dad unwarranted importance and DC Comics connect him to the plot. Why would Hojo go out of the way with Shinra resources to find one nobody to randomly throw him into a Jenova experiment when he readily has samples up to his eyeballs within Shinra? Come on.

 

[TurquoiseHammer]

And why would Hojo be prowling the mountains looking for half dead hikers all alone in the wilderness, when he could simply lift failed candidates from SOLDIER and those wounded from war that are sent to the Science Dept for medical care? They're right there.

The only reason this theorizing exists is to give Cloud's dad unwarranted importance to DC Comics connect him to the plot. Why would Hojo go out of the way with Shinra resources to find one person to randomly throw him into a Jenova experiment when he readily has samples up to his eyeballs? Come on.

I never said there was a good reason. But it wouldn't require any more suspension of disbelief that many of the other developments in the series. As far as totally unlikely fringe theories go, I find it more compelling than most.

 

[Eerie]

People forget it, but Nojima didn't write Cloud's dad to be an arsehole. So, he didn't leave his family willingly. But, his stuff was found in the mountain. So that means other humans could have meddled with his fate - and Shinra/TURKs are not far away. I mean, he could have seen something he wasn't supposed to see, and that's how it went down (that's my "most probable theory" so far with him). He could have been experimented on because they caught him, but I'm wary of this - IMHO there's so much pain Cloud can take.

I also see Cloud as being fatherless the reason of why he acted the way he did as a kid, so it had a pretty big impact on his life.

 

[Makoeyes987]

By your own admission, it literally goes against everything that makes Cloud "Cloud". So, how is that equivalent to any other development?

It would require all the suspension of disbelief one would be reasonably expected to give because it flies thematically and narratively against what we know of the story and Hojo's sourcing of his experiments. Hojo just randomly found Cloud's dad in the mountains because he just was wandering around there and happened upon him for reasons? Who else did he secretly capture? Cloud's twin brother?