Final Fantasy XVI

Pandemonium

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
If you look at the map, you'll also see that each Mothercrystal is named after a body part of a drake
I was thinking about this yesterday. In final fantasy, drakes have been birdlike dragons. The bahamut in ff16, looks similar to a drake. I wonder if that's what the body parts are alluding to
 
If there’s enough demand for it, I wonder if the game’s infrastructure/mechanics will allow for character switching to be an added feature in the future, like how it was with FFXV (since it started out as AI only party members)?
I also wonder if the AI party members will have some form of leveling/customization like Kingdom Hearts and FFXV have? Or will the AI party characters be as limited as say like the Trusts in FFXIV?

Anyways, glad to hear that at least narratively there will be traveling party member characters.
 
AKA
Tets
But on the other hand, when trying to tell a story with difficult adult themes, these ratings can end up becoming somewhat of a hindrance. And you find yourself changing things that you wanted to do in the game based on that rating. You wanted to show something, but because you have this certain rating that you need to go to, you need to move the camera away. And that ends up making the entire experience feel a little bit cheaper. And so, this time, to make sure that we could tell the story that we wanted in the way that we wanted to, we decided to pursue a mature rating in most of the regions that will be releasing the game. But again, this is not because we simply wanted to make the game more violent or the game more explicit, this is because we felt it was necessary to allow us to explore those more mature themes that the game tackles.

*claps*
Appreciate them not compromising themselves and their story.

Interesting tidbit from Famitsu interview, at the time of FFXVI’s reveal in 2020 they were considering releasing the game on PS4 too.
I knew it! Back then I'd been saying this is totally gonna be on PS4 as well. I feel somewhat validated. :P
 

Wol

Saving a Lost Future
AKA
Dawn Warrior
I'm so happy that Eikon battles won't be just QTE-fests, going by the information here.

A bit disappointed if there isn't a system to influence your AI's companions (like in XII and XV).

Lore/world compendium in-game also.
 
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Wol

Saving a Lost Future
AKA
Dawn Warrior
I'm glad they confirmed it would not be open world and that Yoshida wants to portray a proper globetrotting adventure like we're used to from FF.
Unfortunately that also means no airships or crazy vehicles, I suppose...




The hype man

Some are speculating the buddy system might include more than Torgal. Remember the small dragon with Clive in one of the concept arts?
 
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Fiz

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Eh?
But on the other hand, when trying to tell a story with difficult adult themes, these ratings can end up becoming somewhat of a hindrance. And you find yourself changing things that you wanted to do in the game based on that rating. You wanted to show something, but because you have this certain rating that you need to go to, you need to move the camera away. And that ends up making the entire experience feel a little bit cheaper. And so, this time, to make sure that we could tell the story that we wanted in the way that we wanted to, we decided to pursue a mature rating in most of the regions that will be releasing the game. But again, this is not because we simply wanted to make the game more violent or the game more explicit, this is because we felt it was necessary to allow us to explore those more mature themes that the game tackles.

*claps*
Appreciate them not compromising themselves and their story.
This gives me some faith. However, only Clive being playable is really disappointing.
 

Nandemoyasan

Standing guard
AKA
Johnny
What I think worries me about this (although it is Yoshi P saying it who is a complete class act tbf), is that it’s the kind of thing that begs another question: “Will the story be any good?”

See, because my beef with the stories of FF games that I have not enjoyed up to this point was not “they did not deal with dark, mature enough themes,” but more along the lines of “their stories didn’t have any real dramatic substance.” I’m thinking Final Fantasy 2, Final Fantasy 3, Final Fantasy 5, and generally Final Fantasy 8-15. If the story falls apart to the point where the moments stop having any real impact (looking at you Ultimecia), then that makes the rest of the story bad by sheer value of the fact that stories take place over linear time that only goes forward from beginning to end.

Also, it the presentation itself is bad (10 and 13 thankyouverymuch), then no amount of high-concept wankery is gonna save it. Themes are one thing. The magic of any good story is in the telling of it.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
No dramatic substance between... FFVIII to XV?

By your comparison and criticism, that means you think I, IV, and VI are... paragons of dramatic narrative effect?

Not sure how Ultimecia had no real impact but I am real confused by IX, X and XV there. Like, what?
 

Fiz

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Eh?
What I think worries me about this (although it is Yoshi P saying it who is a complete class act tbf), is that it’s the kind of thing that begs another question: “Will the story be any good?”

See, because my beef with the stories of FF games that I have not enjoyed up to this point was not “they did not deal with dark, mature enough themes,” but more along the lines of “their stories didn’t have any real dramatic substance.” I’m thinking Final Fantasy 2, Final Fantasy 3, Final Fantasy 5, and generally Final Fantasy 8-15. If the story falls apart to the point where the moments stop having any real impact (looking at you Ultimecia), then that makes the rest of the story bad by sheer value of the fact that stories take place over linear time that only goes forward from beginning to end.

Also, it the presentation itself is bad (10 and 13 thankyouverymuch), then no amount of high-concept wankery is gonna save it. Themes are one thing. The magic of any good story is in the telling of it.
No dramatic substance between... FFVIII to XV?

By your comparison and criticism, that means you think I, IV, and VI are... paragons of dramatic narrative effect?

Not sure how Ultimecia had no real impact but I am real confused by IX, X and XV there. Like, what?
I find myself agreeing with both of you here. FF6, 7, 9, 10 and if you like MMO's 14; are on a different level to most of the series. Which is fine, I don't expect a series as long-running as FF to hit the ball out of the park every time. That's just not realistic.

However, I think as SE have cemented themselves at the business end of cinematic prestige games, that it's came at cost and I think they started to fall behind on both gameplay innovations and quality of storytelling, with a noticeable drop since FF12. Comparatively, FF is not impacting the market like it used to, and accounting for market changes, it isn't selling comparatively to where it used to. Keeping in mind, the market is bigger now.

FF used to pump out icons, they were game changers that helped shape the future of the industry. And now it isn't, because lots of studios are able to create really high quality cinematic experiences, and other studios are far less risk averse and doing it better.


I look at FF16 and while they've certainly stepped FF into something new for FF, it isn't coming across as fresh to me. Obviously this is all presumption, but judging what we have seen it's like XVI is trying to be like the games that are performing better than FF, but without bringing anything new to the table. It isn't seeming to want to deliver on something we need, either.

Do we need another single player action RPG? No, that market is really over saturated.
Do we need another cool looking sword wielding white guy? No, they are really, really over saturated.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I'm not sure why you think FF isn't impacting the market today. FFXV is one of the best selling FFs of all time, with over 10 million in sales, not to mention it's accolades. It's literally one of the most popular JRPGs, and then you have FFXIV, the most successful MMORPG of all time.

Like, that's iconic. Nevermind just FFVII, you also have Kingdom Hearts. That franchise cannot be overstated at all. It's again, one of the most popular and wildly successful ARPG crossovers.

I mean, you cannot say that FF or S-E are not iconic or "impacting the market like it used to." If anything, it's making more iconic and memorable impacts in the video game space than before in the late 90s and early 2000s. JRPGs are always a niche genre within video games but S-E is at the top of the pack for a reason. Like, you'd have to ignore the past 10 or more years to say that.
 
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Nandemoyasan

Standing guard
AKA
Johnny
I’ll go on if you want me to, Makoeyes. Just remember, you acted like you wanted to know my thoughts on the subject, so this is the result. No complaining. ^_^

FF1, 4, 6 and 7 are the standouts in the series as far as storytelling because they adhere to two basic principles well; they are simple and consistent when it comes to thematic and dramatic elements, and their presentation never puts me off my popcorn too badly. From start to finish, they stay rooted in the themes they establish immediately, and each development in the story seems to flow logically from the ones that preceded it (give or take a random space flea from nowhere once in a while). They have balance.

Final Fantasy 2 and 3 attempt stories that are beyond the scope of the media on which they are confined; they’d make great SNES or PSX games, in terms of their presentation, but the NES just strangles their stories to death. Final Fantasy V has a bit different of a problem in that it never seems interested in being more than the mold on which it is based (the NES games). What was Bartz’ reaction to finding out he’s from another bloody dimension? “Wow. Ok back to killing the Tree Wizard Guy now.” What do we learn about Lenna or Faris beyond their shared history and the surface elements (Princess Pure Pureness and Lady Pirate Who Pretends to Be A Man)? It’s all way too chewing gummy.

Meanwhile, on the other side, FF8 and 9 are almost great, in my opinion. Their world builds are massive and intricate, and the dramatic elements are powerful; however, their plots break down too many times during the narrative (They were all orphans together? Time compression? What? Ok I don’t care let’s just finish this dumb game. Wait Kuja and Zidane are alien genetic constructs intended to populate a new world that will destroy our— oh come on, geez), until at the end of each I’m left with the feeling that the story doesn’t even know what it’s about anymore.

As for X and XII-XV, you can go ahead and tell me sales numbers all darn day and night; it just means the thing is popular, not that it’s automatically what I myself (who has my opinions that I get to have, merci), would call a good story. You come off like they’re your sacred cows a bit and I’m frankly a little anxious to say this but it’s never stopped me before. Don’t be angry with me for having an opinion.

Their presentations are atrocious. Tidus can have as annoying a voice actor as the day is long, fine, I could accept that. But HE NEVER STOPS NARRATING. It’s irritating and makes me feel patronized. I am capable of remembering the story up to now without a constant recap every five minutes. Not to mention, the story (such as it is) never ends up feeling like it has anything to say about life other than “it’s rough being a teenager angry at your celebrity dad” or “it’s rough being a member of a batshit religious order” which are respectively each in their own ways kind of self-indulgent and off-putting, or too far outside any kind of relatable experience to be relevant. Yeah I’m sure it is but I’m a lower-class person who was born into a lower-class family in the Midwest, and I have trouble mustering the sympathy, sorry. Add into that, that the in game cinematics made with the “Emotion Engine” (incredibly douchey “art for arts sake” name for it too) come off as if I’m in a room with aliens trying to learn how to act human, and …woof.

FFXII has a similar problem in the characters of Vaan and Penelo (who were not originally intended to be the mains, from what I gather). This time they tried to tick the box that they thought people like me would respond to more by making Vaan a lower-class person scraping by in an occupied country, but his characterizations need some work. (Neither here nor there but why doesn’t anybody in Rabanaste wear a proper shirt???)

From the moment he knows that Basch did not in fact kill his brother, he needs to grow a pair of round and curlies and stop whinging about it.

Frankly I’m not too familar with XIII and XV because what little I can gather from watching YouTube videos, reading plot synopses, and talking to people who’ve played them makes me think that this brain rot in the FF writing room has only gotten worse. I don’t find Lightning unlikable because she’s a lady; I find her bland and pandery. There were far more challenging and risky things they could have done with a female soldier main character who is not an amnesiac Half-Esper.

And as for Noctis and Co., it all just seems really bland and directionless to me, and it also seems to harp on many of the tropes which were already examined in FFX and XII.

Listen very carefully because not everyone spends all their time thinking about a JRPG series that’s been running since 1987, and I’m paraphrasing Nicholas Meyer:

“Nobody cares what the story is about, nobody cares who’s in the story, nobody cares what the story is called. They only really care about one thing; is the story any good?”

As an example of a good story?

I’d say that the first thing that pops into my head, when I think of a good high-fantasy genre story for FF, is something like Final Fantasy IV. It never strays too far outside its scope for long, the characters come off as solid professionals trying to get through their day at work, they have adult relationships that don’t have this stupid “will they or won’t they” garbage going on, there are dramatic consequences for the actions taken by them and their colleagues, and the theme (virtue born from a bloodstained past) carries all the way from the beginning to the end, without ever leaving me thinking “hey I’d like to know more about what happened with x.” 1 and 6 leave some holes in their respective plots (1 more than 6), but 4 feels complete. It feels solid and even a bit profound.

So there, that’s the answer I came up with to you asking me “How can you think these thinks which you think? Do you even think, bro?”

yeah it turns out I think a lot lol
 

Wol

Saving a Lost Future
AKA
Dawn Warrior
A bit from the latest Yoshida interview (Famitsu)

"Final Fantasy is just a name stuck to a game that we made thinking "This is the best game", and if there is no need to be the successor, then there is no need to flatter the predecessor. If we make a game that we think is the best game, then that makes it "Final Fantasy" - Kitase.

FF is their latest ultimate fantasy of what the best game should be.

I think pretending to be in a vacuum is what made XIII be criticized in the first place. The world was moving on with more open exploration and agency, you can't simply ignore how the outside is doing and that also counts for combat.

Yoshida mentioned in the interview how he thinks realistic graphics and turn-based combat are not a great combination and I completely agree.
 
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Wol

Saving a Lost Future
AKA
Dawn Warrior
- Their focus for FFXVI was; "If we make what we think is the best FF, then that IS FF".
- They thought about what FF was to them, and they came to a simple conclusion; "It's about delivering the best story and game experience".
- For Yoshida (also mentioned in other interviews), when he played FFI, he was amazed by the theatrical composition of the production, timing of the script, drama, sounds, and how all of this created the ultimate game experience.
- He thought that this and Chocobos/Moogle is what made FF an FF game. And he felt that this element was essential for FFXVI.

reddit.com/r/FFXVI/comments/vi43qa/full_famitsu_interview_translation_warning_its/
 

JBedford

Pro Adventurer
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JBed
Kitase's definition of what makes a Final Fantasy game sure is something that wouldn't get me interested in a series. "Games we think are the best". I play series because I want to play similar games. If I want something different and I like a dev I look at their other games.

Yoshida mentioned in the interview how he thinks realistic graphics and turn-based combat are not a great combination and I completely agree.
This is surely just something devs think about when making a game, not what people think when actually playing a game? I played FFX. I played LOTR: The Third Age. I played Lost Odyssey. Yakuza: Like a Dragon exists. Sure there's the "stand in lines and take it in turns to attack" which is funny to think about, but like... so? When playing a game I'm not thinking about that, I'm thinking "if he crits he might kill me but he's gotta be nearly dead, right? one more attack might end the fight".

Turn-based may not be as popular anymore. But this isn't a serious thought of people who enjoy turn-based games. Although I really don't care about realistic graphics either, so eh.
 

Wol

Saving a Lost Future
AKA
Dawn Warrior
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