Final Fantasy XVI

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
That's the genre defying freedom and creativity I enjoy.
I mean I can’t think of anything worse than a studio soulessly churning out the same game with every installment, this ain’t Call of Duty or NBA 2K lol. Long as they’re passionate about their work, it’s fine by me. If I don’t like something they put out, I’ll just stick with what I like or find something else. I know people don’t like to hear that a new installment in a series they like isn’t for them, some may even feel betrayed. But I think we’d all benefit from being comfortable with saying “this thing isn’t for me but it’s fine” and moving on with our lives rather than lamenting that a series we like isn’t what it used to be. It happens, people change. It’s life.

Personally I’ve become a lot less concerned with whether a creative’s new works are as good or impactful as the best work they put out during their peak years because ultimately, why does it matter? Final Fantasy’s cemented itself in video game history in a way that half of the games out there never will, at this point Square’s just finishing up side quests. Would it be nice if every FF was like my favorite, FF7? Not if it meant Square’s creativity was limited to just regurgitating the game that happened to tickle my fancies the most. Variety is the spice of life, and if something isn’t quite up to your tastes, it’s okay.
 

Nandemoyasan

Standing guard
AKA
Johnny
My issue was that I want the story to be worth spending 30+ hours to get through, is all.

I did say that I didn't care for FFV's Story all that much; as a game, however, it (and FF3, 8 and 9*) are infinitely superior to something like Final Fantasy 2 (which is really just a hot mess all around).

The story is a big part of any JRPG, but I also get a kick out of grinding baddies for coins like any decent gamer yknow.

*Side Note but I'm actually starting to get into 12 these days too...the PC Remaster anyhow (yknow, Zodiac Age).
 

Fiz

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Eh?
I'm not sure why you think FF isn't impacting the market today. FFXV is one of the best selling FFs of all time, with over 10 million in sales, not to mention it's accolades. It's literally one of the most popular JRPGs, and then you have FFXIV, the most successful MMORPG of all time.

Like, that's iconic. Nevermind just FFVII, you also have Kingdom Hearts. That franchise cannot be overstated at all. It's again, one of the most popular and wildly successful ARPG crossovers.

I mean, you cannot say that FF or S-E are not iconic or "impacting the market like it used to." If anything, it's making more iconic and memorable impacts in the video game space than before in the late 90s and early 2000s. JRPGs are always a niche genre within video games but S-E is at the top of the pack for a reason. Like, you'd have to ignore the past 10 or more years to say that.
FF14, sure. But generally, SE isn't in the position it was with FF and other studios are outperforming them in a way I don't think they should be.

For example, for studios pushing the industry to new heights, Naughty Dog are really where it's at - or at least, it feels like it.

In terms of IP's; if FF was pulling its weight comparable to how it did in the 90's and 00's should be pulling its weight alongside games such as TLoU, The Witcher, or Horizon. If you disagree with that, then fine. But, I think it should be.


That's the genre defying freedom and creativity I enjoy.
A big part of my issue here is that I look at the cast, and they just look so cookie cutter and run-of-the-mill. If I google "fantasy rpg character", they look like half of the generic characters you see. Clive does look a bit like Noctis, like he went to a salon and got a bit of a makeover, and even his unique characteristics are a bit...






When it was pointed out, I just can't... unsee this. It's like, the same visual design concept. Chunky shoulder and leg armour, a flowing cape, a burning sword and burning, molten arm.

And, even though ToA isn't exactly pushing originality there, I think Alphen might actually look better. At least his armour is actually armour instead of the whole stick them in cloth, with a few fashionable armoured bits here and there that don't protect the bits that really need protecting, then add some fashionable jaggedy bits.

The latter is a real pet peeve of mine at the best of times.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
FF14, sure. But generally, SE isn't in the position it was with FF and other studios are outperforming them in a way I don't think they should be.
Again, in what way? FFXV is legit the most successful single player FF in terms of raw sales and saw the strongest initial sales and pre-orders for a modern FF release. FFVII-R came close but it was only for the PS4, so of course it wouldn't reach the same numbers. I don't know what you're basing that assessment of their contemporary performance on, but while S-E was the vanguard of bringing JRPGs mainstream in the west, that didn't make them anywhere close to the likes of other larger studios. Not even in the 90s.

I don't think S-E was ever a huge or "mainstream" studio. Blizzard, Ubisoft, EA, etc are always going to be "bigger" than them because they're more mainstream and release games for genres with more wider appeal. The only way SE would get "bigger" is by expanding in that direction. And considering again, the broad appeal and pop culture resonance their titles carry, like FF, Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Quest, etc, SE isn't being "outperformed" in any way that's unexpected or distressing.

And I see no resemblance between Clive and...whoever that guy is. LOL, like, I don't even know how you can seriously compare the two. Their only similarity is "fire." The second guy leans hard into the anime aesthetic. Clive looks nothing like that. He's stylized, but he carries very little of the second one's anime design in regards to facial features, outfit, color, etc. His resemblance to Noctis is.... almost nonexistent, save for the hair color.
 

Wol

Saving a Lost Future
AKA
Dawn Warrior
I think Fiz means proportionally to the rest of the market, which obviously gets wider and wider after PS1 era. FF used to be one of the biggest sellers, but not anymore (that only counts for PS1 era I guess).
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Even proportionally, FF sales are up far and wide.

The only difference now is there are other JRPGs. It's no longer just S-E and Sega. And that's to be expected. S-E opened the door, and JRPGs are now far more popular.
 

Fiz

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Eh?
I think Fiz means proportionally to the rest of the market, which obviously gets wider and wider after PS1 era. FF used to be one of the biggest sellers, but not anymore.
Yes, thats exactly what I'm referring to.


And I see no resemblance between Clive and...whoever that guy is. LOL, like, I don't even know how you can seriously compare the two. Their only similarity is "fire." The second guy leans hard into the anime aesthetic. Clive looks nothing like that. He's stylized, but he carries very little of the second one's anime design in regards to facial features, outfit, color, etc. His resemblance to Noctis is.... almost nonexistent, save for the hair color.
In fairness, maybe if you haven't played that game it might not be quite so obvious. But the visual ques are there. Anyway, thats Alphen from Tales of Arise. Obviously I wasn't referring to fidelity, Tales has a more cartoony aesthetic. But the concept behind the two characters designs is very similar; and it isn't just fire. The armour designs follow similar patterns, and the gimmick is the same;

Both possess a powerful fire spirit within them that give them great power, this presents its presence as a firey, moulten arm and sword. The lead female in that game also possesses a magical force within her, that acts as a direct counter to Alphens fire spirit. If Jill, as some have theorised, possesses Shiva and is the love interest, I swear to god, my head will explode because ToA was criticised for being cliche with that hook.
 
I don’t have much to add to the conversation here, just pretty excited. The first FF game in the main series that I’m anticipating since becoming a fan. And then we have Rebirth coming out soon after!

Definitely like the retro FF vibe they’re going for here. I personally wasn’t a huge fan of the story and vibe of XV so it’s nice to see they’re embracing their roots again.
 

Lulcielid

Eyes of the Lord
AKA
Lulcy
I think Fiz means proportionally to the rest of the market, which obviously gets wider and wider after PS1 era. FF used to be one of the biggest sellers, but not anymore (that only counts for PS1 era I guess).
Then why does it matters that FF is no longer the "biggest seller"? Is that an intrinsic element for your investment in the brand?
 

FFShinra

Sharp Shinra Shill
I for one look forward to FF16 based off of the interviews we have seen. I also agree with Kitase's maxim that the best game of the time that Square can make is FF. Final Fantasy is meant to be Square's marquee of AAA quality and prestige, not of a specific collection of tropes. And in that, Yoshi P is still adding so many mainstays of FF its not like it will be unrecognizable.

I have full faith in the story. Heavensward was amazing, and (when it actually went for story rather than annoying fetch quests) ARR had quite a bit of intrigue as well.

And if Yoshi P is given control of the series overall (presumably would only happen if he found a successor for his directorial role in FF14), I imagine that would mean FF17 would be completely different, like either very Asian or Middle eastern flavored, and possibly modern as well. Like the more I read about this game, the more I can't help but speculate beyond this.
 

Fiz

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Eh?
Then why does it matters that FF is no longer the "biggest seller"? Is that an intrinsic element for your investment in the brand?
It isn't, but when an IP goes from top dog to middle of the road, it's often indicative that it's failed to innovate adequately, or fallen into being too formulaic. Which I think FF generally has, and thats been to its detriment.
 

Wol

Saving a Lost Future
AKA
Dawn Warrior
Then why does it matters that FF is no longer the "biggest seller"? Is that an intrinsic element for your investment in the brand?
Never said it was. But I'm interested in the sales of a franchise I like, it often indicates if it's resonated with the market, and can influence the next entries.
 

FFShinra

Sharp Shinra Shill
To determine how well it does in the market, an apples to apples comparison must be made. Comparing this game to topsellers of completely different genres, which are also the topsellers overall, seems counterproductive. It doesn't really matter how CoD or Fortnite is doing compared to FF.
 

Wol

Saving a Lost Future
AKA
Dawn Warrior
To determine how well it does in the market, an apples to apples comparison must be made. Comparing this game to topsellers of completely different genres, which are also the topsellers overall, seems counterproductive. It doesn't really matter how CoD or Fortnite is doing compared to FF.
I would say it totally does, why do you think SQ created FFVII: First Soldier? It knew battle royale games were super popular and wanted to try their thing to test the waters. And other examples can be made. I even remember Toriyama mentioning COD as inspiration for the streamlined FFXIII experience.

They look at the best-sellers to try to utilize as much as possible what makes them best-sellers.
 
I think it’s just more that the “pond” that FF existed in before (particularly from the Western perspective) increased much more significantly than FF itself increased (which it also did). Not that FF is lesser than what it was before, it just has more to stand out in and against and compete with. (along with production of games being more cost intensive for the same amount of game content while also stating current to the contemporary industry level of visual fidelity)
 

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
Every dog has its day, way I see it. We wouldn’t be where we are without FF and that will never change so whether or not the franchise is as innovative today relative to how it was in its prime is frankly of little consequence to me.

If you’re lucky, you get one opportunity to innovate and push the landscape of creativity forward. Some manage to keep that momentum going longer than others, but it doesn’t last forever for anybody. No single creator will be the lead innovator in their respective medium forever and that’s probably for the best.

Inevitably, once you’ve gone the distance, the road you helped pave will allow others to add to the ever-moving artistic zeitgeist with newer contributions that will eventually outlast you. I’d take solace in the fact that the groundwork laid by the franchise has provided a solid foundation for other properties to be successful with, that alone is history.

If SE never makes another substantially innovative contribution to gaming again, it’s fine. They’ve done their part. They’ve certainly contributed more than most devs will ever get a chance to. Most games will never reach the heights Square has with FF, and I think the passion they still have for their work should be celebrated more than anything.
 

Wol

Saving a Lost Future
AKA
Dawn Warrior
About Soken's involvement:

“Final Fantasy XIV has always been considered like a Final Fantasy theme park, and this has allowed for a lot of different types of music styles,” Yoshida said. “Final Fantasy XVI, however, is a more focused experience fixed firmly on Clive Rosefield and his journey. As such, I envisioned a more focused experience when it comes to music as well.”

Yoshida shared that Soken confided in him that he’s actually been having a tough time adapting to work on a single-player game.

“Focusing on one theme has been actually very challenging for him,” Yoshida said. “It’s been a long time since he’s had to do that and not be able to just do whatever he wants.”

https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/23/23180709/final-fantasy-16-eikons-naoki-yoshida-interview

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FFShinra

Sharp Shinra Shill
I would say it totally does, why do you think SQ created FFVII: First Soldier? It knew battle royale games were super popular and wanted to try their thing to test the waters. And other examples can be made. I even remember Toriyama mentioning COD as inspiration for the streamlined FFXIII experience.

They look at the best-sellers to try to utilize as much as possible what makes them best-sellers.
A spin-off game like first soldier can do whatever it wants. A mainline FF does not have to compete with them.
 
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