General Knowledge of the Lifestream on Gaia

ForceStealer

Double Growth
I've always kind of wondered about this and the compilation has amplified it. Does everyone on Gaia know about the Lifestream? I mean, I suppose after FF7 when everyone WATCHED it stop Meteor I'm sure they do, but before that. This may seem like a dumb question but this is where it stems from:

1) Besides Cosmo Canyon, did any NPCs ever make any mention of it? It kind of made it out to be the sole place for the 'Study of Planet Life'. And if everyone already knew, why would Bugenhagen have to explain it to AVALANCHE?

2)Churches. There are churches (at least) in Sector 5 and Kalm. What do they worship? The Lifestream? Ancestors? Or do they believe in a different kind of afterlife? The latter is supported by this set of dialogue in the game:

3) Elmyra: "...That child loved to talk. She used to talk to me about everything. She told me she escaped from some kind of research laboratory somewhere. And that her mother had already returned to the planet, so she wasn't lonely... and many other things."

Barret: "Returned to the planet?"

Elmyra: "I didn’t know what she meant. I asked her if she meant a star in the sky, but she assured me that she meant the planet..."

That line certainly seems to imply that Elmyra held a different belief of what happens after death, now that could be because she's living in the slums a poor and likely uneducated woman. Everyone knows about Mako, but the game implies that people don't know what it is apart from a viable power source. Even in Dirge of Cerberus, the flashback of Shalua and Shelke at their mother's grave. Shalua says their mom said that things move in a cycle, whether that's a simple explanation for kids or simply not knowing about the Lifestream is another matter.

I'm not quite sure the people in Shinra know either. I'm sure they've heard it, but believing it is something else altogether. But in Advent Children Rufus certainly seems to know.

One thing that the Compilation has been doing (and which I have not been particularly fond of), is having people 'return to the planet' almost instantaneously at their death. It makes sense when Sephiroth did because they were fighting IN the Lifestream (or even just in Cloud's head, so anything could happen). The remnants were being purified/destroyed by Great Gospel, so that works too. But Grimoire Valentine, Hollander, Lazard, and perhaps even Zack disintegrate into Spirit Energy very soon after dying, if that's really how things happen, than everyone must have known about the Lifestream, no?

...Sorry about the essay, what do you guys think?
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Crisis Core answers your question :monster:

Zack encounters people in Midgar who are less than happy with Shinra and one of the guys in Sector 8 explains why Shinra is evil and killing the planet. Zack calls the guy crazy and walks of :monster:

People who study planet life know what the lifestream really is. However, the general public is ignorant of what mako energy is composed of.
 
While I don't think Square has put ANY THOUGHT WHATSOEVER into what you've just questioned, it is a fun thing to think about.

I think only people who are either extraordinary or under extraordinary circumstances disintegrate. Zack was a strong SOLDIER with an obviously strong spirit energy, and the fact that he had gone through a mako treatment made him more dense with spirit energy.

I theorize then that the greater density of spirit energy the easier you disintegrate. It would seem then like Grimoire's wound spread through his whole body and thus he returned to the planet in that fashion.
I like this theory because high-density mako reactions were apparently a rarity before Shinra made use of spirit energy. The main source of materia used to springs like the one in Mt Nibel, but now there are mako reactors to produce them. So it is only during recent times that these "disintegrations" have happened.
But yes, there is a hole in that one would expect Aerith to disintegrate since she is a Cetra. But just because she is a medium of spirit energy doesn't mean she has to be full of it...right? Yeah, it is not fully convincing. :P

As for the whole religion thing, there is a 1950 year old gap from the appearance of heaven's dark harbinger and the use of mako as an energy source. Dozens of religions could have come and gone for that time. FFVII just isn't that rich with detail, ya know? I always assumed that Elmyra never had an alternate idea to what the after-life consists of. A church may not have the same meaning as in our world and it may just be a remnant from a forgotten religion.

Interesting though that God is mentioned in the FFVII universe. Take the Case of Barret:
Cid sauntered over to Barret, sputing profanity with every step. Barret greeted Cid with a laugh.
"Talk like that and God's gonna get on your case!"
"God? You haul his ass down here," snapped Cid, not missing a beat. "I gotta have words with him."


Once again I think it is just Square being sloppy, but it could leave the possibility that there are some religious leftovers in the world of FFVII. :monster:


Note: Spirit Energy is explained to AVALANCHE because you as the player need to know what it is. That and they probably did not have detailed knowledge of it, like MakoEyes said.
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
[quote author=ForceStealer link=topic=237.msg5315#msg5315 date=1230921588]One thing that the Compilation has been doing (and which I have not been particularly fond of), is having people 'return to the planet' almost instantaneously at their death. It makes sense when Sephiroth did because they were fighting IN the Lifestream (or even just in Cloud's head, so anything could happen). The remnants were being purified/destroyed by Great Gospel, so that works too. But Grimoire Valentine, Hollander, Lazard, and perhaps even Zack disintegrate into Spirit Energy very soon after dying, if that's really how things happen, than everyone must have known about the Lifestream, no?

...Sorry about the essay, what do you guys think?
[/quote]

Yeah, I didn't like that either. I always guessed it had to do something with their special conditions, i.e. not being normal humans anymore.

I don't think Zack disintegrated though. Imo, it wouldn't make sense for him and I choose to believe his corpse was later recovered by Shin-Ra and taken away or whatever. :monster:
 

Masamune

Fiat Lux
AKA
Masa
I thought Grimoire dissolved because of the stagnant mako? But meh, I can't remember too well.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Actually, Shademp, your theory makes perfect sense.

The only people who instantly vanish in a cloud of mako pyreflies are people who have been augmented or touched in someway by mako.

The Genesis Copies, Zack, Grimmoire (who died because of the stagnant mako "attacking" him), etc all share the common thread of vanishing, and that's thanks to the outside influence of spirit energy effecting them.

Aerith wouldn't vanish because she's never been modified or "changed" through some mako enhancement or phenomenon. Just because she comes from a unique bloodline doesn't make her physiology any different from a regular human.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Here's a thought guys, the belief, and possible existence of a Judeo-Christian-esque God and the Lifestream (and even Minerva) don't have to be mutually exclusive in the FF7 universe.
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
[quote author=Tetsujin link=topic=237.msg5360#msg5360 date=1230933567]
[quote author=ForceStealer link=topic=237.msg5315#msg5315 date=1230921588]One thing that the Compilation has been doing (and which I have not been particularly fond of), is having people 'return to the planet' almost instantaneously at their death. It makes sense when Sephiroth did because they were fighting IN the Lifestream (or even just in Cloud's head, so anything could happen). The remnants were being purified/destroyed by Great Gospel, so that works too. But Grimoire Valentine, Hollander, Lazard, and perhaps even Zack disintegrate into Spirit Energy very soon after dying, if that's really how things happen, than everyone must have known about the Lifestream, no?

...Sorry about the essay, what do you guys think?
[/quote]

Yeah, I didn't like that either. I always guessed it had to do something with their special conditions, i.e. not being normal humans anymore.

I don't think Zack disintegrated though. Imo, it wouldn't make sense for him and I choose to believe his corpse was later recovered by Shin-Ra and taken away or whatever. :monster:
[/quote]

Pretty sure Zack didn't "vanish" that bit in CC was just a representation of his consciousness or soul or leaving the mortal plane.

His body didn't vanish in the original game, and it wouldn't make any sense for CC to contradict that. Especially given how faithful the game turned out to be when it came to actual scenes from the original game being recreated in the game.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I personally don't think Zack vanished but I was just including him in that category since one poster seemed to think he did and I was offering an explanation :monster:

But yeah, I think you're right about it just being symbolism.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
I wasn't sure, so I just included him with a "perhaps" since it does end up showing the cliff empty (but with flowers on it), but it probably was symbolism. Of course, if it was that gets rid of the disappearing after high exposure to mako idea.
 
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