Hojo and lies

[Clement Rage]

Question, TLS. I have a headcanon about Hojo where he doesn't really lie to people, not because he's compelled to, but just because he doesn't care enough. So I was wondering if there was anything in canon that disproves that. He withholds information sometimes, but seems to otherwise be honest even when he shouldn't. So, is there anything we know that disproves that?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Well, apparently he told Sephiroth that his mother's name was "Jenova."

 

[Tashasaurous]

Well, apparently he told Sephiroth that his mother's name was "Jenova."

And he told Veld that his daughter Felicia was dead when in reality, as of Before Crisis, he experimented on her by placing one of the support Materia's into her body.

So of course Hojo lies in order to get what he wants, but the only times he is honest is when Cloud and his friends catch up to stop the evil mad scientest, but even when he's honest about his plans that'll destroy the Planet, he doesn't care for anyone but himself and his science.

 

[jazzflower92]

Yeah, he's a consummate liar who likes to screw with people's lives like they are toys.

 

[Flintlock]

Don't listen to Hojo's lies! I'm THE Basch fon Ronsenburg!

 

[Tashasaurous]

To put it more simply: Hojo thinks that the entire Planet is nothing more than his toy box and every other people and living things in it are his toys, because as far as he's concerned, he believes he is the true only living being in the entire Universe. That's why he experiments on them, because he's a delusional, demented, senile, ice-cold hearted and cruel idiot.

Edit: And I'd never listen to his lies, not with the way he treats everyone. I hate him with the vengence.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

And he told Veld that his daughter Felicia was dead when in reality, as of Before Crisis, he experimented on her by placing one of the support Materia's into her body.

I don't think it's indicated that he outright told Veld anything. More that he didn't tell him she was alive (if he even knew who she was among the injured survivors of the bombing in Kalm). He then disposed of her after his experiments, thinking she hadn't survived the process (a flashback in Episode 16 shows this, and the notes in Shinra Manor from Episode 13 had previously alluded to it by saying that his experiments involving directly placing materia into people's bodies all ended in failure; she was still alive, but couldn't speak).

 

[jazzflower92]

To put it more simply: Hojo thinks that the entire Planet is nothing more than his toy box and every other people and living things in it are his toys, because as far as he's concerned, he believes he is the true only living being in the entire Universe. That's why he experiments on them, because he's a delusional, demented, senile, ice-cold hearted and cruel idiot.

Edit: And I'd never listen to his lies, not with the way he treats everyone. I hate him with the vengence.

I think he gets off on lying to people, and likes how he manages to really play with their lives. It fits in his nature as you as he sees everyone as just one big experiment for him.

 

[Tashasaurous]

To put it more simply: Hojo thinks that the entire Planet is nothing more than his toy box and every other people and living things in it are his toys, because as far as he's concerned, he believes he is the true only living being in the entire Universe. That's why he experiments on them, because he's a delusional, demented, senile, ice-cold hearted and cruel idiot.

Edit: And I'd never listen to his lies, not with the way he treats everyone. I hate him with the vengence.

I think he gets off on lying to people, and likes how he manages to really play with their lives. It fits in his nature as he sees everyone as just one big experiment for him.

That too. In a way, both of our theories pretty much means the similiar thing to that guy. He shouldn't even be described as human.

 

[jazzflower92]

To put it more simply: Hojo thinks that the entire Planet is nothing more than his toy box and every other people and living things in it are his toys, because as far as he's concerned, he believes he is the true only living being in the entire Universe. That's why he experiments on them, because he's a delusional, demented, senile, ice-cold hearted and cruel idiot.

Edit: And I'd never listen to his lies, not with the way he treats everyone. I hate him with the vengence.

I think he gets off on lying to people, and likes how he manages to really play with their lives. It fits in his nature as he sees everyone as just one big experiment for him.

That too. In a way, both of our theories pretty much means the similiar thing to that guy. He shouldn't even be described as human.

He's a walking definition of a sociopath.

 

[Tashasaurous]

I think he gets off on lying to people, and likes how he manages to really play with their lives. It fits in his nature as he sees everyone as just one big experiment for him.

That too. In a way, both of our theories pretty much means the similiar thing to that guy. He shouldn't even be described as human.

He's a walking definition of a sociopath.

Sociopath doesn't even cover it. Hojo is a nasty Seymour-Jenova-Kefka-Monster in human disguise.

 

[leadmyskeptic]

I know this isn't really the point of this thread, but I'm always a bit disappointed that whenever Hojo is brought up the response is such abject hatred and disgust. I mean, the dude's a villain, so he's meant to be disliked. But part of the reason I find Hojo so fascinating (and the reason he's one of my favorite FF vilains) is that, at least until the end, he doesn't have any "evil plans", he just has a deranged devotion to his 'religion'...in this case, science. He's essentially just a greasy, unhandsome spin-off of Dr. Frankenstein...obsessed with science and breaking through the currently-existing walls at ANY cost, and with no respect for boundaries, including human life. The only time he really resembles a conventional villain is when he's at the controls of the Sister Ray (one of my favorite moments in the game, btw), and that's after he's lost what little mind he had to begin with after his religion, what he has up til now put all of his chips into--once again, science--has been blown apart and exceeded by Sephiroth. Just my 2 cents.

 

[jazzflower92]

Nah, there is a reason why he's hated is due to the fact he has the long history of screwing with people's lives and causing most of the bad things to happen in the story. Anything bad happen to a character can be traced back to his doings.

 

[leadmyskeptic]

Exactly...he's at the center of it all, he's brilliant, he's important...christ, now it sounds like I'm worshiping him haha. I wish I had a word to distinguish between--"ah man, what a great villain, how diabolical" (I suppose how people seem to treat Sephiroth) and "blaghdsjkl fuck that guy!". D'yer know what I mean?

 

[jazzflower92]

Exactly...he's at the center of it all, he's brilliant, he's important...christ, now it sounds like I'm worshiping him haha. I wish I had a word to distinguish between--"ah man, what a great villain, how diabolical" (I suppose how people seem to treat Sephiroth) and "blaghdsjkl fuck that guy!". D'yer know what I mean?

I say you can do both, but with Hojo there is something much more of a hateable element to him.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I think you would be hard-pressed to find any canon evidence that he is motivated by "screwing with people's lives" and actively enjoys their suffering, as opposed to both these things being the inevitable side effects of what he IS actually interested in, namely proving that his so-called scientific theories are correct.

Of all the characters in FFVII, Hojo is probably the quickest to admit that he was wrong, and even to berate himself for his own stupidity. However, like a true scientist, he is always fascinated when his theories are proved wrong, because it opens up for even more hypothesizing and experimenting.

Hojo ultimately sees every human being as a "thing", a means to an end. To him, their feelings are no more important than the feelings of the chair he sits in or the test-tube he accidentally broke. In order to actually get off on people's suffering and confusion, you first have to acknowledge that they are persons, not objects, and you have to recognise their ability to feel emotions. I think he may sometimes give the appearance of enjoying human suffering, because suffering is often a correlative with a successful experiment - but his pleasure lies in the success of his work, not the pain of his subjects. That's my belief.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

PS - so to answer Clem's question, I don't think he deliberately lies to people. That would be like lying to my door about why I'm going out, or lying to my fridge about how many calories I ate that day. If he fails to tell them the truth, it's because they didn't ask the right question. It wouldn't even occur to him that they might want, need, or be able to use information he has.

 

[Octo]

Yep, put nicely, Hojo has a severe lack of social skills

 

[lithiumkatana17]

Don't listen to Hojo's lies! I'm THE Basch fon Ronsenburg!

Aw man, you beat me to it...

 

[Flintlock]

It was the only thing I could contribute to this thread; I had to get it in quick.

 

[jazzflower92]

I do have to say it's practically in Hojo's nature to lie to people.

 

[Sprites]

How many lies do you think Hojo told to get those girls At Costa Del Sol to fawn over him like that

In all seriousness though I'd love to actually know more about his own backstory and what made him become the way he did. Like when did he become so obsessed in experiments, theories and what influenced him?

 

[Clement Rage]

Well, apparently he told Sephiroth that his mother's name was "Jenova."

True... from a certain point of view.

Hojo is fun to play with, because he's so upfront about what he is, but is able to get exactly what he wants from everyone without even spending the effort to actually trick anyone.

 

[Tashasaurous]

How many lies do you think Hojo told to get those girls At Costa Del Sol to fawn over him like that?

*Shudders* Ugh. Everytime I even think about that gives me the bad shivers. The question we should be asking about that scene, "Are those girls blind or something?" as my thoughts were that they thought he was actually good looking, which is extremely awful.

In all seriousness though I'd love to actually know more about his own backstory and what made him become the way he did. Like when did he become so obsessed in experiments, theories and what influenced him?

I'm more interested in Reno's backstory.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I think it's more fun to make up our own Reno backstories.

Re Hojo - I get the impression the beach bunnies really do like him. He impresses them with his mighty... brain, and his willingness to wear a lab coat on the beach. All the nice girls love a scientist.