Hope, Snow, and Empathy

Kobato

Pro Adventurer
#1
D; Why the feck do people hate Hope and Serah so much ? Hope looses his mum because Snow's a giant douchebag and Serah's just a innocent teenager. rage.
 
#2
It's not Snow's damn fault, no matter how unlikable he is. Every thing she did was her own choice. Why Hope doesn't hate PSICOM makes no freaking sense, THEY killed her.

And yeah, like I said, Serah's not in it enough to warrant hatred, imo. Hope's warranted though :monster:
 
AKA
Noctis
#3
I understand why people hate Hope tbh, since he's such a whiney little brat in the beginning of the game. xD I love the character that he becomes around when... Lightning started giving a damn about him and so on. Those moments were cute, too. xD ♥ And Hope said himself that he realized his hatred for Snow was wrong... so... IDK. He's just a kid man.
 

Sheva Alomar

I'm Alive and on Fire
AKA
Adri, Sir Integra, Fiona, Sango
#4
D; Why the feck do people hate Hope and Serah so much ? Hope looses his mum because Snow's a giant douchebag and Serah's just a innocent teenager. rage.
Hope is a whiny and helpless piece of shit who blames the wrong people (Snow actually didn't killed Hope's Mom, as Force made clear) while Serah was a pointless plot device who, as far as I am concerned, had zero personality.

Snow is just an ignorant manchild who stopped mentally growing at 13.
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
#5
...Serah was a pointless plot device who, as far as I am concerned, had zero personality.
I am sorry to say, but I agree with this.

It's not Snow's damn fault, no matter how unlikable he is. Every thing she did was her own choice. Why Hope doesn't hate PSICOM makes no freaking sense, THEY killed her.
Probably due to the fact that
Hope and his mother put their trust into Snow and his group's boisterous bragging and calls for freedom
. I find it easy to see the link, despite the fact that I agree with you.
 
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Roger

Triple Slash Enthusiast
AKA
Minato
#6
It's not Snow's damn fault, no matter how unlikable he is. Every thing she did was her own choice. Why Hope doesn't hate PSICOM makes no freaking sense, THEY killed her.

And yeah, like I said, Serah's not in it enough to warrant hatred, imo. Hope's warranted though :monster:
The soldiers that shot her are dead, his mom is also dead, the guy that handed her the gun is laughing and calling himself a hero two seconds afterwards.

Well most of the X cast was barely in X-2...so maybe? I didn't read the novellas, but sounds like Lightning went off on her own. Maybe NO ONE else will be in it outside the ending or something?
Everyone came back for X-2, save Auron, Tidus and Seymour, what are you talking about?
 
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#7
The soldiers that shot her are dead, his mom is also dead, the guy that handed her the gun is laughing and calling himself a hero two seconds afterwards.
Except he DIDN'T hand her a gun. She took one, to which he protested. Hope saw ALL of this.

Sailor Mercury said:
And Hope said himself that he realized his hatred for Snow was wrong... so... IDK. He's just a kid man.
And that would be fine if he knew it was wrong but still resented him. But the fact that he still wants TO KILL HIM despite knowing he's not actually guilty is ridiculous. As I said before the only thing good about that plotline are some of the "oh shit" moments that come from Snow unwittingly saying things that make it worse :monster:


Everyone came back for X-2, save Auron, Tidus and Seymour, what are you talking about?
What part of "barely" did you miss? No one outside of Yuna and Rikku of the original cast had a significant role. Lulu was busy magically hiding her pregnancy with Wakka, and Kimahri had even fewer lines.
 
AKA
Noctis
#8
and that would be fine if he knew it was wrong but still resented him. But the fact that he still wants TO KILL HIM despite knowing he's not actually guilty is ridiculous. As I said before the only thing good about that plotline are some of the "oh shit" moments that come from Snow unwittingly saying things that make it worse
Well, he said he needed *someone* to blame. Snow had a face, and a name, and knew his Mom. If you had a close family member or friend and they died like that... I doubt you would be thinking rationally afterwards, especially as a child. And Hope's a weak character in the start - his Mother is also the only pereson he felt he could rely on. Like Shikamaru said, Snow's speaking something like this:

"Save Serah, protect Cocoon, and have myself a big, happy family."

Now what to me is less reasonable, is that Snow has a break down and Hope is still merciless, I guess it's the pent up rage/angst/ etc, but even then the man's pouring out his heart and Hope is like I'MMA STILL KEEL YOU RAAAAH. Though I suppose Snow's break down doesn't bring his own Mother back. This blaming someone... it's a way of coping.

/defending Hope lol @ me
 

Dana Scully

Special Agent
AKA
YACCBS, Legato Bluesummers, Daenaerys Targaryen, Revy, Kate Beckett, Samantha Carter, Matsumoto Rangiku
#10
Honestly I wonder why Hope's mom decided to go all gunhappy in the first place.

OKAY SON I'M GOING TO LEAVE YOU IN THE HANDS OF TOTAL STRANGERS IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR ZONE WHILE I GO OFF WITH THIS RAGTAG BUNCH OF MISFITS AND FIGHT TRAINED SOLDIERS BECAUSE THAT TOTALLY WON'T END BADLY

If she wanted to fight she could've taken the gun and escorted HER KID and the rest of the non-combatants rather than go racing off to a glorious death.
 

minimosey

Pro Adventurer
#11
Now what to me is less reasonable, is that Snow has a break down and Hope is still merciless
That probably goes back to what Lightning had just told him in the Gapra Whitewood: "You forget about sympathy" / "Focus on your ultimate goal and shut out everything else". He can't start wavering against a perceived enemy because of emotion.

Not to mention, what Snow's saying there is exactly what Hope finds infuriating. He's trying to just move forward from the deaths that happened because there's "nothing he can do" and that he's going to look for the answers he needs, and this comes right after the big, happy family line...
 
#12
I love that Lightning was trying to murder Snow by way of Hope: giving him the knife, planting all the necessary thoughts in his head. Quite brilliant actually :awesomonster:
 
AKA
Noctis
#13
Wow, you made me like Lightning a little more... xD

If she wanted to fight she could've taken the gun and escorted HER KID and the rest of the non-combatants rather than go racing off to a glorious death.
Well, Hope does have his daddeh. :monster: I know he doesn't like him and everything, but he's not exactly a BAD guy, just has trouble showing affection.
 

Dana Scully

Special Agent
AKA
YACCBS, Legato Bluesummers, Daenaerys Targaryen, Revy, Kate Beckett, Samantha Carter, Matsumoto Rangiku
#14
Well, Hope does have his daddeh. :monster: I know he doesn't like him and everything, but he's not exactly a BAD guy, just has trouble showing affection.
Yeah, but I still don't see that as a reasonable or rational explanation for a mom to abandon her kid.
 

Tetsujin

Ready for the mosh pit, shaka brah
AKA
Tets
#15
Honestly I wonder why Hope's mom decided to go all gunhappy in the first place.

OKAY SON I'M GOING TO LEAVE YOU IN THE HANDS OF TOTAL STRANGERS IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR ZONE WHILE I GO OFF WITH THIS RAGTAG BUNCH OF MISFITS AND FIGHT TRAINED SOLDIERS BECAUSE THAT TOTALLY WON'T END BADLY

If she wanted to fight she could've taken the gun and escorted HER KID and the rest of the non-combatants rather than go racing off to a glorious death.
That's what I thought too.

Honestly, that was damn stupid.
 

Tifabelle

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Tifabelle, Nathan Drake, Locke Cole, Kain Highwind, Yamcha, Arya Stark
#16
Hope and Snow aren't that bad. I actually kind of like Hope (after he gets over his shit). Snow is mostly annoying when he's dredging on about Serah (which is a lot I guess). Speaking of Serah, I agree with Force. I mean, she's barely in the game to feel one way or another about her, imo. But these characters aren't much different than some stupid FF characters we've seen in the past. I'm not making excuses. They just didn't bother me that much.
 

Roger

Triple Slash Enthusiast
AKA
Minato
#17
Except he DIDN'T hand her a gun. She took one, to which he protested. Hope saw ALL of this.
He came there, with guns, starting handing out guns, led them to painful deaths, came back, had a good laugh with his friends, left again, crashed, then Hope heard him proclaim himself a hero.

I'm sorry but I probably wouldn't be happy with him either.



What part of "barely" did you miss? No one outside of Yuna and Rikku of the original cast had a significant role. Lulu was busy magically hiding her pregnancy with Wakka, and Kimahri had even fewer lines.
Everyone in Spira had at least a dozen lines, Kimahri and the like a lot more, this will have Lightning by herself in another world or timeperiod. That means unless they take the story in a very different direction halfway through NOTHING from the supporting cast at all until the end. It is completely incomparable. I'd be very surprised if Sazh talks more then Wakka or even Lucy or even Cid did in X-2.
 
#18
I think its pretty obvious that most of us don't like him either, but he still didn't kill Nora. Hope's mom left him behind to take a gun against Snow's wishes and then took a blast from a PSICOM rocket which killed her.
 
#20
What does that change? He still didn't shove a gun in her hands and say "Fight!" Taking the gun was still her choice. And Snow may be obnoxious calling hismelf a hero but it IS true that if it weren't for him that whole group of people probably would have been killed - Hope included.
 

Roger

Triple Slash Enthusiast
AKA
Minato
#21
Hope and Nora's group was sitting tight under PSICOM guard, they weren't in danger of getting shot until Snow came along, which is not to say Pulse seemed all that better but if you're gonna liberate people and only end getting them killed quicker then turn around and not so much as think twice about it, some animosity can be expected.
 

Tifabelle

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Tifabelle, Nathan Drake, Locke Cole, Kain Highwind, Yamcha, Arya Stark
#23
I don't think anyone is taking certain blame from Snow & NORA. But let's not call Hope's mom an innocent here. She CHOSE to stand up and fight. It's not Snow's responsibility to change her mind even though he did object. She's a grown ass woman, and makes her own decisions. Give her a little credit.
 

Roger

Triple Slash Enthusiast
AKA
Minato
#24
They weren't actually going to send them to Pulse, they were going to kill them. Lightning and Sazh discuss that.
Lightning offered that it made no difference to the Sanctum whether they were dead or shipped off to Pulse, which explains why PSICOM made no real attempt to recapture the prisoners, whether they were planning on killing them anyway Lightning admitted she didn't know, she's Guardian Corps not PSICOM but regardless none of this was known to the people in question. Nora and Hope weren't resisting arrest, PSICOM wasn't killing them, then Snow happened, now I'm not saying the fool that leads them is any worse then the fools that follow him but Nora and the others paid for their stupidity with their lives already, Snow didn't suffer so much as a bruised ego, as far as anyone but him knew that is.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#25
Sazh is up in the air ...
'Cause he's a pilot? :awesome:

X-2 only came out like a year after X, didn't it?
Two years, so if XIII-2 comes out this winter, it will be the same deal.




Not sure what to expect from this. I do hope it's good, of course, but who really knows. I like Lightning's armor while also finding it impractical and ill-suited to her. I hope that's not an indication of how to feel about the rest of the game.




As for the Hope hate, even Game Informer jumped on the bandwagon in their most recent issue, placing him as third on their top 10 dorks of 2010 list and describing him thus:

Game Informer said:
A boomerang?! Of all the cool weapons in Final Fantasy XIII - guns, swords, gunswords - why does Hope choose a boomerang? Because he's an idiot, that's why. You can't expect much more from a twerp whose only form of self-expression are whining and crying.
Guess they didn't finish even half the game. Maybe less than a quarter?

Seriously, Hope has become the new Tidus -- that character who has legitimate reasons to whine when he does but gets derided for it endlessly, and who actually mans up pretty damn big while the fact of it goes ignored. Pretty much exactly like Tidus.
 
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