Hopes for the remake (gameplay/combat)

Gary Caelum

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Gary Caelum
Functionally it can transfer 1:1 in terms of how they equip. They just need to be changed in execution a little to account for real time combat, and the 3D enviroment. If anything, they have MORE options to expand things.
Lol if it were being remade by Nintendo it might keep it 1:1. But this is Squenix. They're allergic to keeping things exactly the same. They'll change it just for the sake of doing something different, I guarantee.
 

ChipNoir

Internet Ghost
AKA
Mister Spooks.
Lol if it were being remade by Nintendo it might keep it 1:1. But this is Squenix. They're allergic to keeping things exactly the same. They'll change it just for the sake of doing something different, I guarantee.
The didn't change it that much in Crisis Core, so that flies in the face of your assertion. equiping it is virtually the same. The only thing that changed is the behaviors of certain abilities to compensate for the new combat style, and the fact that it focuses on having only one playable character.
 

ChipNoir

Internet Ghost
AKA
Mister Spooks.
What? They changed like the best aspect of it! They removed the ability to combine different materia effects together. That was the coolest thing about the FF7 system!
There's still a handful of support materia. Admitedly they shifted to more of a focus on putting passive abilities into the materia themselves, but it's still there if somewhat diminished. It's just been scaled back a bit to meet the balance demands of a single player character versus very primative, limited enemy parties.
 

Gary Caelum

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Gary Caelum
Yeah but the cool part about the original was just experimenting with combining things and feeling smart when you made some cool combination.

I distinctly remember figuring out to combine Final Attack and Phoenix by myself. Made me feel like a right smart-ass to notice how great a combination that would be.
 

ChipNoir

Internet Ghost
AKA
Mister Spooks.
Yeah but the cool part about the original was just experimenting with combining things and feeling smart when you made some cool combination.

I distinctly remember figuring out to combine Final Attack and Phoenix by myself. Made me feel like a right smart-ass to notice how great a combination that would be.
And I'm sure Nomura and co are aware of this. They helped design that in the first place, remember? They're not going to trash that. Emblish and adjust, sure, but remove? I don't see that.
 

Kain424

Pro Adventurer
Not to mention the fact materia connects implicitly to the universe of Final Fantasy VII itself. It's really a stroke of genius, the way it all connects.

In any case, weren't they talking about just kind of updating the look of spellcasting? I think that sounds like minimal change in regards to functionality, and more like simple aesthetic differences. Which is fine.
 

Gary Caelum

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Gary Caelum
Squenix absolutely love their mechanics and systems though. I bet they'll be incapable of controlling their desire to make something new.

I don't even know how much I want this to be a direct remake and how much I want it to be a re-imagining. With a direct remake, at least you know what quality you're getting. But with a re-imagining, you are at least getting a new experience.
 
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I'm pretty sure that they already explicitly stated that this was a re-imagining and not a strict remake. And let's not forget that, from what little we know so far, they have indeed already introduced new systems - like the character switching and the limb-targeting mechanic. I have no doubt that Materia will either operate differently, or have another layer added on top of it.

I'd also put money down that there will be a twist on XV's combo system in this - it just seems what they have been angling for in the VII universe for quite some time, and I hope that extends to the Materia as well. I'd love to see magic not just existing in a vacuum, but having Materia actually interacting with one another and forming a combo with magic cast by your AI companion on the battlefield, creating new spells and effects in order to really make magic worthwhile.

I just really don't want battles to simply come down to positioning, limb hacking, and Limit Breaks. I want my Materia front and center as much as any other mechanic.
 
I mean, the simple fact that the combat is action-based means, all by itself, that the Materia system will fundamentally be, from the ground floor on up, different from what we knew in the original. I mean, yes, the "ATB" in VII meant if you dawdled on a decision long enough, an enemy got a chance for a free whack at ya, but it was essentially just a more tense version of good ol' turn-based combat. If a turn-based system makes physical 'attacks' feel more like strategic movement of a gameboard piece--less visceral, more like what using magic 'should' feel like--then an action-based system causes casting 'magic' to feel more visceral, immediate and direct, more like what an attack 'should' feel like..and, unavoidably, somewhat less strategic. Something styled like a 'special move' in the heat of combat is always going to feel more visceral and less strategic than something selected, with patience, analysis of the situation on the battlefield, and a degree of forethought, from a compendium of some kind. That's why RTS games aren't presented like first-person shooters, lol. Seems to me that both options inherently frame one or the other (magic or physical attacks) just as they should be, while unavoidably resulting in the other kind of blending in, and being presented like the first whether it's ideal or not.

Anyway, of course we're going to see a Materia system. They're not totally cuckoo for cocoa puffs. Will it have the same level of depth? Of course not. How they find a way to balance that, though, to at least create the feeling of materia-based customization during the main game, is going to be the central make-or-break element for this RM, in my opinion. Far more than plot elements they might change, whether it turns out Genesis' penis was puppeteering both Jenova and Sephiroth the entire time, Rufus Shinra is really Mukki, etc etc. They fuck up materia, and the game will become a beloved YT video series by whoever does the best job editing the story sequences together in their "Let's Play", and nothing more.
 

ChipNoir

Internet Ghost
AKA
Mister Spooks.
I mean, the simple fact that the combat is action-based means, all by itself, that the Materia system will fundamentally be, from the ground floor on up, different from what we knew in the original. I mean, yes, the "ATB" in VII meant if you dawdled on a decision long enough, an enemy got a chance for a free whack at ya, but it was essentially just a more tense version of good ol' turn-based combat. If a turn-based system makes physical 'attacks' feel more like strategic movement of a gameboard piece--less visceral, more like what using magic 'should' feel like--then an action-based system causes casting 'magic' to feel more visceral, immediate and direct, more like what an attack 'should' feel like..and, unavoidably, somewhat less strategic. Something styled like a 'special move' in the heat of combat is always going to feel more visceral and less strategic than something selected, with patience, analysis of the situation on the battlefield, and a degree of forethought, from a compendium of some kind. That's why RTS games aren't presented like first-person shooters, lol. Seems to me that both options inherently frame one or the other (magic or physical attacks) just as they should be, while unavoidably resulting in the other kind of blending in, and being presented like the first whether it's ideal or not.

Anyway, of course we're going to see a Materia system. They're not totally cuckoo for cocoa puffs. Will it have the same level of depth? Of course not. How they find a way to balance that, though, to at least create the feeling of materia-based customization during the main game, is going to be the central make-or-break element for this RM, in my opinion. Far more than plot elements they might change, whether it turns out Genesis' penis was puppeteering both Jenova and Sephiroth the entire time, Rufus Shinra is really Mukki, etc etc. They fuck up materia, and the game will become a beloved YT video series by whoever does the best job editing the story sequences together in their "Let's Play", and nothing more.
Depends on if the magic makes use of the physical space.
Things like gravity spells dragging enemies around, elemental spells having different patterns of behavior, they can all dramatically change which we use in a circumstance. Dissidia, while it fails in many regards, is extremely good at giving every ability it's proper time and place to use it.

If anything magic in turnbased games can be MORE limited than action games. They have a target, and they have a range of either a single target, all targets, or in rare cases, random distribution based on hp (FFX's multi-casts) or location (Comet 2 for example). Outside of that, the only strategy to magic is "Does this element hurt, can I afford to use it, and will the enemy punish me for it?" or "Does this status effect help me, and does it have a chance of taking hold?" all of which can be applied to action styles just as easily.

Most action games don't bother with this since the only way to balance that is to have characters that need to be kept at a distance, or they'd be broken, or focus on physical attacks because that's more impressive.

VII-R has an opportunity to sidestep this problem because you have 9 (Or more) characters that all have different strengths and weaknesses. If you're sick of being a melee fighter, you can switch to a magic user, and then back again if you feel like getting up in there again. I myself used Mirage Staff a LOT in KH3 because I enjoyed doing a lot of damage from a safe distance, and my combo game is a little lacking.
 
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Gary Caelum

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Gary Caelum
Yeah it looked like there were only 2 commands at another point in the video.
Maybe just because it's the very beginning and they hadn't set the shortcuts?

Also, why have they kept the name Braver but changed Cross Slash to Punisher?
 
I know this is a pipe-dream, since it doesn't look like all the enemies have limb-targeting aspects, but I really hope they add some Vagrant Story to this and it's not just a basic 'you cut off an arm and it can't attack with that arm'. In Vagrant Story the limbs you targeted had an overall compounding effect on your opponent. Chip away at the legs and it's actions / movements were slower. Attack the arms and it's physical attacks would be weaker. Attack the head and it would stagger / reduce it's magical ability.

Really hoping it has at least a layer of that within this.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
So, have we got any clue how the combat system is going to work? A friend tells me it's going to be based on FFXV and he thoroughly hated it, says that you only control one character and the others are AI-controlled? Do you think it'll work the same? Cause I really don't want that, that's for sure.
 

Kain424

Pro Adventurer
You can switch between characters in Final Fantasy XV (though that was patched in later). Looks similar here.

Also, it's clear the combat does not involve button mashing, but rather it gives you a set of options when your character is ready for action. There is a time bar on the side that fills up, along with a limit bar. I'm guessing you can maneuver your characters around strategically (like in Crisis Core, where an attack from behind an opponent deals more damage), but prompts take priority over a simple "X for attack" style gameplay. It would also seem more powerful moves are given after successful strikes, similar to Kingdom Hearts III. So you could attack a few times and then it will give you the option of pressing TRIANGLE or something to use a more powerful attack.
 
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