Hopes for the remake (story/content)

Massive Yuffie fan here, disappointed at her criminal underusage, hope she’s as annoying as she ever was in the remake in a way that’s not entirely dumb (a girl can dream). This is actually one of the relationships I look forward to seeing expanded the most in the remake! It makes me sad we have to wait so many years to get to some of these characters.

They’d probably get off on the wrong foot, but in time I can imagine theirs as a respectful friendship, with Yuffie occasionally pestering him just because and Red pretending to be utterly annoyed at her childless, while secretly craving the attention. I genuinely think Red would get her in ways the others can’t or aren’t interested to. It’s also funny because, at least in the beginning, they’re both kids who want to act tough and do right by their home, since they clearly know better than their “cowardly” fathers.

Now that I think about it, this game has a lot of kids who want to act like grown-ups and mostly fail at it. Cloud, Yuffie, and Red have all basically the same level of emotional maturity, though with very different nuances. What a crew indeed. :P
That's how they're going to link each part of the remake together. The beginning of every game after part 1 is gonna start with you getting all your materia and equipment stolen by Yuffie.
 

mandelbrot86

Lv. 25 Adventurer
That's how they're going to link each part of the remake together. The beginning of every game after part 1 is gonna start with you getting all your materia and equipment stolen by Yuffie.
I actually thought that would be a fantastic thing to do at the beginning of Part 2. I saw a playthrough of New Threat and they had her rob the team in their sleep in Kalm and then get caught and added to the team directly after. I think that would be fantastic for the remake since I'm sure Part 2 will start in the flashback. They could have you recover some materia, basically your starting ones. Then if they pull off the 3 parter where Part 2 makes it all the way to the summoning of Meteor, it makes perfect sense that Shinra would have taken all your materia and weapons at the beginning of Part 3.
 
So I know the Red XIII discussion was a couple pages back, but I was reading over it and thinking about it/him, and...even in the original game, and definitely in the dastardly entity known as the "Compilation"...he is just one of those characters they created, and then didn't know what the fuck to do with. Considering he way he's introduced, along with the 'cut content' about the 'other' creatures (Cobalt 12, or whatever), I kind of get the impression that perhaps originally he was going to be another character tied to Shinra, almost in a Vincent-esque way...a kind of experiment, Frankenstein's monster, who then finds his own identity through his adventures and interactions with the group. Then, when they threw that out the window and left his story solely tied to Cosmo Canyon, that's what results in a lot of the oddities and sort of awkwardness as far as placing his character. The "Seto" sequence is moving, and one of my favorite parts of the game, but I kind of feel like the whole "last of his kind" bit (which is a FF series staple, I suppose) is pretty underdeveloped in this case and actually barely mentioned. Bugenhagen's his 'grandfather', but then not at all, everybody else in Cosmo Canyon is human, but nobody finds this strange or even acknowledges that outsiders might find it strange, Seto did what he did to protect the other inhabitants of the canyon, but then...all of the rest of the "Nanakis" died...anyway?? Some of the moments I find most exciting with his character also feel like either hangovers from removed plot elements, or just things that don't get explored ("My tattoo is 13...am I going to go mad too?"). It just kind of feels like they weren't sure which direction to take his character compared to most of the others, so they just...didn't? I realize I'm not being very specific here, but I guess what I'm trying to get at is, this is one character where I'd be happy to see some outright re-writes.
 

Saven

Pro Adventurer
Really, just more character development would be minimum enough for me as far as changes to the remake would make me happy (but I don't mind the other stuff too so far). Red, Yuffie, and especially Vincent can use a lot more development and I expect them to be more engaged throughout the FFVIIR series. Interactions with Cait Sith could use some improvement as well ("I'M COMING WITH YOU WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!" won't be an acceptable answer as to why someone joins your party in 2020). I can't wait to see what Vincent's interactions are like with Hojo at the end of the last Midgar visit. I also wouldn't be surprised if the other Red clones are bosses in this remake, especially if they want to add on to Red's suspicions about losing his mind later after seeing how the others act.
 

mandelbrot86

Lv. 25 Adventurer
I’m a fan of of the AI approach for Cait Sith. I think it would explain why Reeve doesn’t need to constantly control him and it makes his loss in the temple a little more real. Also it would help with why he stays. Maybe he’s controllable but the his real personality is not a bad guy.
 
I really don’t understand the anxiety around Genesis anytime inclusion of the Compilation is mentioned. Regardless of one’s feelings on the character, the Compilation itself set it up so that Genesis isn’t supposed to appear directly during the main game timeline since he’s in self-imposed hibernation. At most there could be small references to him, like documents or news clippings regarding the history of SOLDIER.
 

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream
I really don’t understand the anxiety around Genesis anytime inclusion of the Compilation is mentioned. Regardless of one’s feelings on the character, the Compilation itself set it up so that Genesis isn’t supposed to appear directly during the main game timeline since he’s in self-imposed hibernation. At most there could be small references to him, like documents or news clippings regarding the history of SOLDIER.
I understand, but I think what some people want is for him to not ever have existed at all, even in hibernation, and this is a chance to remove him from FFVII's canon entirely. Sephiroth could have lost his mind without any help from Genesis, just as the original game showed us.
 

Sephira

That Silver-haired Lady
AKA
Sephiravania
I really don’t understand the anxiety around Genesis anytime inclusion of the Compilation is mentioned. Regardless of one’s feelings on the character, the Compilation itself set it up so that Genesis isn’t supposed to appear directly during the main game timeline since he’s in self-imposed hibernation. At most there could be small references to him, like documents or news clippings regarding the history of SOLDIER.
↑ This. Perhaps Genesis is not much of a loved/liked character, but he's a part of the Compilation, like it or not -yep, as same as Cait Sith, dudes and dudettes! And yes, his presence -may or not may- be strictly necessary for the story development, but he's there and plays his role, and can be referred to in the Remake, not affecting the outcome at all. Will they even refer to Angeal? Could be, why not? He's a part of the Lore as well, and as Crisis Core is canon, references to them could be used.

But I do think than more than references to Genesis, they will refer to Zack, adding depth to the story by making him a little less absent and thus making Cloud's mindfrick more interesting. Will Sephiroth, maybe, give him hints of Zack's existence so he's even more confused? Could be.
 
I understand, but I think what some people want is for him to not ever have existed at all, even in hibernation, and this is a chance to remove him from FFVII's canon entirely. Sephiroth could have lost his mind without any help from Genesis, just as the original game showed us.
Yeah, but even if the FFVII Remake doesn’t even indirectly reference Genesis, that doesn’t mean Genesis has been removed from the canon entirely, as the entire point of the way the Compilation used Genesis is that his absence in the OG is can be explained away easily. Even with the Nibelheim flashback Genesis not appearing can be explained as Cloud not “remembering” the entirety of the reactor scene, as Genesis only appeared after the entirety of the OG dialogue had been said.
 

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream
That still doesn't address the issue of Sephiroth needing Genesis to go mad in the first place. The original game was written and made in such a way that Sephiroth needed no other catalyst than what we saw in the game. And keeping it simple like that can be more effective than inserting a new character just for the sake of doing so and circumventing the intention of the original.
 

youffie

Lv. 25 Adventurer
I think the problem is that Genesis and everything that concerned him was very jarring in a way that seemed to clash with the original without adding much of substance in return – case in point, the new version of the Nibelheim incident, which was at the very core of the original game and for that reason alone should not have been tampered with.

Of course, this is not limited to poor Genesis, and perhaps he’s not even the worst thing they came up with after the original game. It’s just that he was a very loud, very flashy representation of what rubbed many people the wrong way with the Compilation. So when people say they don’t want Genesis anywhere near the remake, I don't think it's even about the character per se at this point. I think they just hope that everything they rewrite or add will actually complement and enhance the original material, something the Compilation failed to do more often than not.

Personally, I don't care if the changes they implement have any relation with the Compilation or not. I just hope that the way they go about implementing them makes sense thematically and tonally.
 
Sure, Genesis may have been a case of shoehornitis (though I think his character is fine/neutral towards him). But that’s an issue with Crisis Core itself, also the showhornitis, regardless of its quality, was inherently designed in a way that it’s absence in the OG is self-justified.
I can sorta understand the reasoning that “Genesis” is just shorthand for people meaning “things from the Compilation I don’t like”, but I think it’s just strange to use a character that deliberately was written to justify its own absence in the OG narrative as symbolic of Compilation material that could be used in the Remake, as opposed to actual Compilation material that could actually be added to the Remake that does fit in with the current timeline, such as the additional towns and locals that CC/BC added. Or like the Remake twitter said more Wutai material.
 

Pandemonium

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
I think the problem is that Genesis and everything that concerned him was very jarring in a way that seemed to clash with the original without adding much of substance in return – case in point, the new version of the Nibelheim incident, which was at the very core of the original game and for that reason alone should not have been tampered with.

Of course, this is not limited to poor Genesis, and perhaps he’s not even the worst thing they came up with after the original game. It’s just that he was a very loud, very flashy representation of what rubbed many people the wrong way with the Compilation. So when people say they don’t want Genesis anywhere near the remake, I don't think it's even about the character per se at this point. I think they just hope that everything they rewrite or add will actually complement and enhance the original material, something the Compilation failed to do more often than not.

Personally, I don't care if the changes they implement have any relation with the Compilation or not. I just hope that the way they go about implementing them makes sense thematically and tonally.
Your last couple statements is all I hope for as well
 

Pandemonium

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
I really don’t understand the anxiety around Genesis anytime inclusion of the Compilation is mentioned. Regardless of one’s feelings on the character, the Compilation itself set it up so that Genesis isn’t supposed to appear directly during the main game timeline since he’s in self-imposed hibernation. At most there could be small references to him, like documents or news clippings regarding the history of SOLDIER.
I've said the same thing about Crisis Core. Even if they are only shown as minor references, I don't see why that would take away from the game
 

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream
I'm fine with them drawing on certain things from the Compilation to expand the lore and such, though I don't know how effective using anything from BC would be given its release was so limited, it never made it outside Japan, and only a minority of the overall fanbase seems to even know about it so any references would likely be missed by most people.
 
That’s the point of references/Easter eggs/homages though, they can be enjoyed as just extra content/information even if only a few people recognize their origin.
FFXIV does that all the time, like in Stormblood there’s is a sidequest chain with some Miqo’te characters that’s a direct homage to Red XIII’s character arc with his father. Now there are plenty of FFXIV players who haven’t played FFVII and plenty who have, but the former can still enjoy content regardless of their lack of context/knowledge.
 
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