Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
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- Rosarian Shield
Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)
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Wouldn't he short-circuit?
Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
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- Rosarian Shield
Since I just discovered this thread I am going to post a serious reply XD
I hope they don't change anything about the story as much as they add on some extra layers. So for instance, instead of having Sephiroth now try and do something different, we still have North Crater Sephiroth doing the same shit, but with the extra problem of future Sephiroth ALSO doing shit. I just hope future Sephiroth doesn't change the plans of current Sephiroth.
Within those additions I hope to explore the things we explored through the compilation. So I want Cloud to go through the full gambit of guilt, acceptance, and moving on that he originally went through during AC.
I also want the story of Zack to be further explored through those additions, so we have the same attachment and love for him and Aerith that Crisis Core gave us.
I want the main difference in the ending to be that this time, Cloud and Tifa end the game happy and hopeful, and with humanity having a future, that's it.
And as for future Sephiroths plans, I hope that his goal is to corrupt the lifestream and use it to travel to, and infect, the universal lifestream by obtaining the proto materia and preventing Dirge of Cerberus. I hope he'll try to accomplish this by using a shit ton of misdirection and by using the chaos of North Craters Sephiroths actions as a way to cloak and help his efforts.
More than anything I just want to see the big scenes.
The dates.
Cloud assaulting Aerith ending in the forest of the ancients scene.
Aeriths death.
Every visit to Nibleheim.
The lifestream Sequence.
And of course, the HA highwind scene.
Within those additions I hope to explore the things we explored through the compilation. So I want Cloud to go through the full gambit of guilt, acceptance, and moving on that he originally went through during AC.
I also want the story of Zack to be further explored through those additions, so we have the same attachment and love for him and Aerith that Crisis Core gave us.
I want the main difference in the ending to be that this time, Cloud and Tifa end the game happy and hopeful, and with humanity having a future, that's it.
And as for future Sephiroths plans, I hope that his goal is to corrupt the lifestream and use it to travel to, and infect, the universal lifestream by obtaining the proto materia and preventing Dirge of Cerberus. I hope he'll try to accomplish this by using a shit ton of misdirection and by using the chaos of North Craters Sephiroths actions as a way to cloak and help his efforts.
More than anything I just want to see the big scenes.
The dates.
Cloud assaulting Aerith ending in the forest of the ancients scene.
Aeriths death.
Every visit to Nibleheim.
The lifestream Sequence.
And of course, the HA highwind scene.
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That 35,000 word article I just wrote. 
tl;dr – I hope that we get the same
X
tl;dr – I hope that we get the same
Sephiroth that we're used to, and that the new Sephiroth's motivations do still align with the same things that he's always wanted to do – but such that it's framed in a different context in order to make the final confrontation address a much more difficult question to answer: Do you keep the memories of the difficult world that you endured through ...or do you roll the dice and unmake everything not knowing what that means for the future on the chance that it might turn out better? Upon becoming pretty certain that that's what it looks like they're setting up over the last couple weeks, I've already been preemptively struggling with the idea of that decision already.
Also, while I didn't include any mention of the idea in my article – I genuinely love the thought that if you want to take Sephiroth's path & remake the whole world so that no one dies, that it would also overwrite all of your save data, so that the only thing you can do is load up the game and watch the ending of whatever that path leads to, or choose to start again from scratch. I want that final choice to REALLY make you squirm, and think about what you value & what you're willing to do.
Also, while I didn't include any mention of the idea in my article – I genuinely love the thought that if you want to take Sephiroth's path & remake the whole world so that no one dies, that it would also overwrite all of your save data, so that the only thing you can do is load up the game and watch the ending of whatever that path leads to, or choose to start again from scratch. I want that final choice to REALLY make you squirm, and think about what you value & what you're willing to do.
X
Apologies, didn't realize this was a non spoiler thread.
That 35,000 word article I just wrote.
tl;dr – I hope that we get the sameSephiroth that we're used to, and that the new Sephiroth's motivations do still align with the same things that he's always wanted to do – but such that it's framed in a different context in order to make the final confrontation address a much more difficult question to answer: Do you keep the memories of the difficult world that you endured through ...or do you roll the dice and unmake everything not knowing what that means for the future on the chance that it might turn out better? Upon becoming pretty certain that that's what it looks like they're setting up over the last couple weeks, I've already been preemptively struggling with the idea of that decision already.
Also, while I didn't include any mention of the idea in my article – I genuinely love the thought that if you want to take Sephiroth's path & remake the whole world so that no one dies, that it would also overwrite all of your save data, so that the only thing you can do is load up the game and watch the ending of whatever that path leads to, or choose to start again from scratch. I want that final choice to REALLY make you squirm, and think about what you value & what you're willing to do.
X
I personally don't want the choice to
But I haven't written an 11 page breakdown of the Sefirot, which is an interesting read btw, thanks for that. Haven't reach the end yet but I wonder how being able to do that would fit in with those elements.
Also, have you played Nier: Automata? Because if you haven't, you should.
remake everything, it seems antithetical to everything FFVII stands for.
Also, have you played Nier: Automata? Because if you haven't, you should.
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- X
You're welcome & thanks for diving into it as it's a long read – but it's made me think about VII's story really differently and start to be interested in getting different things from Remake. Mostly I've gotten really involved in all of the tough existential questions around life & death, and how those are being explored in a fantasy setting, 'cause that carries a lot of added weight for me these days.
Anything that helps to add in layers of complexity to the characters and their struggles that Remake's been doing will be really great. I've loved how they opened up on those things with Barret & Tifa, and I can only expect that we'll be getting more of that with the other characters. There're lots of potential opportunities on that stuff for Vincent, Yuffie, Cid, & Even Cait Sith.
Also, I haven't played Nier: Automata, but it's one I've thought about looking into when I have a bit more cognitive bandwidth to play games.
X
Anything that helps to add in layers of complexity to the characters and their struggles that Remake's been doing will be really great. I've loved how they opened up on those things with Barret & Tifa, and I can only expect that we'll be getting more of that with the other characters. There're lots of potential opportunities on that stuff for Vincent, Yuffie, Cid, & Even Cait Sith.
Also, I haven't played Nier: Automata, but it's one I've thought about looking into when I have a bit more cognitive bandwidth to play games.
X
You're welcome & thanks for diving into it as it's a long read – but it's made me think about VII's story really differently and start to be interested in getting different things from Remake. Mostly I've gotten really involved in all of the tough existential questions around life & death, and how those are being explored in a fantasy setting, 'cause that carries a lot of added weight for me these days.
Anything that helps to add in layers of complexity to the characters and their struggles that Remake's been doing will be really great. I've loved how they opened up on those things with Barret & Tifa, and I can only expect that we'll be getting more of that with the other characters. There're lots of potential opportunities on that stuff for Vincent, Yuffie, Cid, & Even Cait Sith.
Also, I haven't played Nier: Automata, but it's one I've thought about looking into when I have a bit more cognitive bandwidth to play games.
X
Well, I was looking into looking into the sefirot path things for an analysis of my own, but it's a bit too metaphysical for my way of thinking I've found, so I am having difficulties using it to make predictions. I kind of feel like it could be used to predict, or retroactively justify, anything as long as you're willing to squint at it enough.
But from some of the things you've said I think you will absolutely LOVE what Nier: Automata does. It has my favorite take on nihilism, existentialism, and philosophy in general ever in gaming, and the way it presents, guides, and forces you to accept and reject some of these ideas is just brilliant. The ending had me crying for....well, as long as Crisis Core had, but for entirely different reasons, because of just the beauty of what the game was doing from a design and philosophy perspective.
Edit, and to keep it on topic, for the people who HAVE played Nier, I don't want FFVII to have a similar ending to that, despite how much I loved it there, I think that ending worked because the entire game was designed around it. I think the 23 year history of FFFVII makes it so that I would absolutely LOATHE it if something similar happened in the remake.
Even if deep symbolic reasons can be found why it would be fitting, those reasons are not what we as the players experience as we are playing, it's not how we perceive the story of FFVII, which means that symbolism should mostly be an easter egg imo, it shouldn't be used to justify changing some of the more surface level themes and experiences that the players have taken from the story.
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A lot of it is connected to what Sakaguchi was dealing with at the time, and how he was compartmentalizing his emotions in a structured way given his engineering background. That's when it started to make more sense about how & why it influenced certain elements of the story, but less in a predictive way, and more in a "how these concepts were built upon" & "what rules they follow in the story" sort of way to communicate those ideas within the story. Having the original story made it interesting to think about how much things might change, and also look at what they've already done in remake to reinforce certain themes.
I think that Red XIII is the biggest wildcard for me at the moment, because I'm really curious how they're going to portray the Gi Cave. It's the closest that Final Fantasy VII gets to exploring the idea of the undead, and given what they've done in the train graveyard in Remake, I'm really looking forward to learning a lot more about how those concepts are treated in the game's world. It's definitely one of the places where I want to get the feel of more ancient parts of the world.
X
I think that Red XIII is the biggest wildcard for me at the moment, because I'm really curious how they're going to portray the Gi Cave. It's the closest that Final Fantasy VII gets to exploring the idea of the undead, and given what they've done in the train graveyard in Remake, I'm really looking forward to learning a lot more about how those concepts are treated in the game's world. It's definitely one of the places where I want to get the feel of more ancient parts of the world.
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Meleth
Lv. 1 Adventurer
I feel weird that my main concern is how they're going to handle
Biggs. Looks like not that many care about his ending even though it's completely different from his canon one. The guy is easily one of my favourite characters and it worries me that ... no one is talking about it? I don't think I've seen a single theory about him and I fear that the devs are not going to expand his story as a consequence - as in: "no one seems to care so we won't waste time on him". Honestly. If they spared him just to kill him off again (they made us believe that he died at the pillar), I'm going to be big mad.
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- TresDias
I'm certainly interested in seeing what they make of his fate (and
Wedge's and Jessie's, for that matter), but we also don't really have much to go on to theorize with about that particular plot thread.
His death in the original wasn't irrelevant, but it also wasn't presented as the narrative cornerstone that Aerith's was, neither in the game nor its subsequent multimedia and interviews, so what can we draw on for predictions? If someone has insight that goes beyond recognition that he's alive and may show up again, I absolutely would love to see it, but thus far it hasn't invoked more cause for discussion than that.
There's just so much less to speculate about with him (or Jessie or Wedge) than with Aerith, and far less narrative significance to call to mind as a reason to do so.
His death in the original wasn't irrelevant, but it also wasn't presented as the narrative cornerstone that Aerith's was, neither in the game nor its subsequent multimedia and interviews, so what can we draw on for predictions? If someone has insight that goes beyond recognition that he's alive and may show up again, I absolutely would love to see it, but thus far it hasn't invoked more cause for discussion than that.
There's just so much less to speculate about with him (or Jessie or Wedge) than with Aerith, and far less narrative significance to call to mind as a reason to do so.
Jairus
Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
It can still be done, though. They're still part of the story. And there's many directions SE could go with them, including making them more a part of the narrative (this isn't the OG, after all). So there may be more to speculate about than you think.
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- Ody
I had a theory that the fort condor scenario would be transformed into a large scale conflict between Avalanche HQ and Shinra, and the party would meet with
Biggs (and maybe also Wedge/Jessie if they didn't die either) who would have regrouped with the other Avalanche cell once he recovered from his injuries.
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- Ite
I am thinking that’s what they’ll do. Since nothing is optional in video games anymore, they’ve got to weave FC into the main plot somehow. It’s what I did, although I didn’t make them “Avalanche,” just dissidents already allied with Barret.
LNK
Pro Adventurer
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- Nate
If I remember right, you or someone else on here brought that up awhile back too!
I would like that. I always found the Fort Condor section pretty tedious and sometimes I skip it altogether.
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- Ody
Yeah I've brought up this idea before. It just makes sense to me.
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- TresDias
What I mean is that there's nothing specific to speculate over regarding how such developments could impact the previously known narrative. That's why the explanation for the confusion @Meleth mentioned is simply that there's very little to talk about, and what is asking to be discussed was quickly gone through. "Literally anything could happen" isn't a big jumping-off point for theories. It's not a pointed question, or even a question at all.
To put it another way, there's a reason writing prompts include more details than just "Write whatever you want."
There's a lot that could happen right now, but not really any obvious narrative consequences to consider. At this point, I'm not even sure what's left to be said about the possibilities regarding Aerith and
Zack.
This vein of discussion really does illustrate how unknown everything really is. When will we encounter the Avalanche organization again? What will they be doing? How does Rufus play into the whole thing, especially after his ascent to president? If one or more of the
BWJ trio are alive, where will we see them? Will they form their own group with some other folks? Will they join the party or join another cell? Would they want to join another cell and would that cell accept them? What was the real reason Barret's group was labelled as extreme? I love the politics of this world, so I'd love to see this expanded.
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- Ody
I think the biggest reason to keep
biggs and potentially the others alive is to address an area the original was kinda lacking in: supporting characters. The plot was fairly disconnected in the original so it wasn't that noticeable, but in the far more cinematic style of the remake I feel like it would be more noticable. There really isn't anyone on the MC's side throughout the game besides Buhgenhaggen, so ripping a few nobody NPCs from the original and expanding their roles can remedy this.
Now you'd have Biggs along with the main Avalanche group working behind the scenes and occasionally assisting the main party. If Jessie isn't a bloody pancake, she could help the party get in good with Dio at the hold saucer since she worked there, Wedge could take command of the cat house in Wutai to help catch Yuffie. I dunno. It makes the world feel bigger and like there's more going on outside the purview of the main cast.
Now you'd have Biggs along with the main Avalanche group working behind the scenes and occasionally assisting the main party. If Jessie isn't a bloody pancake, she could help the party get in good with Dio at the hold saucer since she worked there, Wedge could take command of the cat house in Wutai to help catch Yuffie. I dunno. It makes the world feel bigger and like there's more going on outside the purview of the main cast.
I wonder how complicated they'll make it. What if Avalanche as an org becomes an antagonist? Even them remaining an anti-hero institution like Rufus' Shinra would serve to highlight just how alone the party is in the world without any legit allies aside from some NPCs and local governments. Regarding the
trio or whatever is left of it, I have a hard time believing that they would just join another cell, since they obviously have some bad blood with HQ (I also wonder where HQ would be - Cosmo Canyon seems like it would make sense, but it isn't an industrial area..). I feel like they would start another splinter group if anything, and would definitely assist the party.
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- Ody
I was basing my assumption on
wedge working with Domino, but you're right. Biggs is the only one really worth talking about now since the other two are probably dead, so I wonder what Biggs would do on his own? Barret mentions a few other people we never meet during his garden scene, maybe Biggs will reappear with them.
Jairus
Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
Yeah, the
trio would definitely help Cloud and the others out if they're at all able. If she's alive (and remains an NPC, admittedly the more likely route), I could see Jessie doing for equipment what Chadley does for materia, creating new and rare weapons, armor, and accessories for the group as the game goes on, stuff you can't get anywhere else. It would play right into her skills as a technological genius. Maybe you'd have to bring her certain materials for her to make new gear, things that you'd probably win from monsters and such or find in explorable areas. The more rare and harder to find the materials, the better the equipment she can make for you. It could become its own quest line, sort of like how Chadley has his own set of quests. She could also give you messages and quests from Avalanche HQ since she has a contact there, the only one that'll talk to Barret's cell. She could also go with the gang on the journey so you wouldn't have to go halfway across the world whenever you wanted to give her more materials, get more equipment from her, or get new quests from her.
I'm not sure yet what Biggs and Wedge could do, but I'm sure there's some way they could help out. They're a duo, so it'd make sense, I think, that whatever role they play, it'd be something they both do together. Maybe they could assist in infiltrating Junon (instead of the OG dolphin route) to create a more realistic scenario for getting up there as well as assisting at Fort Condor like Ody suggested. And Ody, I know you're trying not to get your hopes up, but keep in mind that SE surely knew exactly what putting Jessie's glove on the dresser would make people think. And after making sure every other named NPC in Sector 7 survived, do you really think they'd leave out Jessie and Wedge? We only saw half of the room Biggs was in. The camera angle carefully hid the other half. Jessie could've been there recuperating as well.
I'm not sure yet what Biggs and Wedge could do, but I'm sure there's some way they could help out. They're a duo, so it'd make sense, I think, that whatever role they play, it'd be something they both do together. Maybe they could assist in infiltrating Junon (instead of the OG dolphin route) to create a more realistic scenario for getting up there as well as assisting at Fort Condor like Ody suggested. And Ody, I know you're trying not to get your hopes up, but keep in mind that SE surely knew exactly what putting Jessie's glove on the dresser would make people think. And after making sure every other named NPC in Sector 7 survived, do you really think they'd leave out Jessie and Wedge? We only saw half of the room Biggs was in. The camera angle carefully hid the other half. Jessie could've been there recuperating as well.
Well, if
Jessie is alive (I'm not convinced either way until more info comes out - I think it's intentionally ambiguous), having her be a "weapons guy" would be cool. That part of her character was a bit disjointed in the remake. Like she was this actress that randomly became a techie, but we never see her actually being techie like in the OG, just showing up with weapons? I am torn between wanting her to be a tragic character we never got to know but also wanting to see her be more developed and interact more with the party.
Having one or more of them act like a mole makes sense, though on the same hand it's hard to gauge how much Avalanche trusts them. Though by the end it seemed like they trusted them more than it seemed, given the scenario with Wedge.
If Rufus was embezzling funds to Avalanche or even running them as controlled opposition, what would he do as president? My guess is he would start having them dismantled from the inside. Or perhaps profit off the conflict by continuing to provide them resources and scapegoating the organization to keep the population in line (I can see OG Rufus doing something shady like this, but I'm a little uncertain that Remake Rufus would do this).
Having one or more of them act like a mole makes sense, though on the same hand it's hard to gauge how much Avalanche trusts them. Though by the end it seemed like they trusted them more than it seemed, given the scenario with Wedge.
If Rufus was embezzling funds to Avalanche or even running them as controlled opposition, what would he do as president? My guess is he would start having them dismantled from the inside. Or perhaps profit off the conflict by continuing to provide them resources and scapegoating the organization to keep the population in line (I can see OG Rufus doing something shady like this, but I'm a little uncertain that Remake Rufus would do this).
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