Hopes for the remake (story/content)

Unit-01

Waiting on Evangelion 3.0+1.0
AKA
Sicarius VI, Pink Guy, Sic, Anthony
There is really a lot of this forum. Guess I'll get started here then. (I apologize if what I am going to list has already been said before).

Changes in FF7 Remake I would like to see include:
-Cissnei and the other Turks, in short we could have a scene that Cloud and party encounter Cissnei and it sparks a whole load of stuff from CC.
-Mandatory and possibly playable Zack's Final Stand. Personally it would be really awesome if we could play through the moments as Zack fights off the waves of Shinra troops. I feel some would disagree.
-Answers/Fixes to some of the games parts that contradict other parts in the compilation. For example, in FF7CC we learn that Genesis was the one to help Sephiroth along his path to madness. Of course this goes against what we are lead to believe from FF7. Just things like this that cover some of the inconsistency that this game has.
-Mandatory Yuffie and Vincent.
-New Game + mode(If nothing else on this list, then please at-least give us a new game +).
-Towns and locations not in the original like maybe the ruins of Banora, because you know it got carpet bombed.
-Sapphire WEAPON fight(I'm sure I heard this from Maximilian Dood) but like a fight with the weapon to fight it at the bottom of the sea off the coast of Junon or have some special way to get to it.


Just a few things I'm hoping for. What do you guys think?
 

Tashasaurous

Tash for Short
AKA
Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
There is really a lot of this forum. Guess I'll get started here then. (I apologize if what I am going to list has already been said before).

Changes in FF7 Remake I would like to see include:
-Cissnei and the other Turks, in short we could have a scene that Cloud and party encounter Cissnei and it sparks a whole load of stuff from CC.
-Mandatory and possibly playable Zack's Final Stand. Personally it would be really awesome if we could play through the moments as Zack fights off the waves of Shinra troops. I feel some would disagree.
-Answers/Fixes to some of the games parts that contradict other parts in the compilation. For example, in FF7CC we learn that Genesis was the one to help Sephiroth along his path to madness. Of course this goes against what we are lead to believe from FF7. Just things like this that cover some of the inconsistency that this game has.
-Mandatory Yuffie and Vincent.
-New Game + mode(If nothing else on this list, then please at-least give us a new game +).
-Towns and locations not in the original like maybe the ruins of Banora, because you know it got carpet bombed.
-Sapphire WEAPON fight(I'm sure I heard this from Maximilian Dood) but like a fight with the weapon to fight it at the bottom of the sea off the coast of Junon or have some special way to get to it.


Just a few things I'm hoping for. What do you guys think?
Yeah, it's kinda disappointing that most people don't want the FFVII remake to be connected with the Compilation which is in fact, Canon.

I'm also miffed that Before Crisis will never get a remake or that we'll never get a new sequel set after Dirge of Cerberus to answer what Genesis will is doing after the secret ending. What was the point in making it if they're just leaving it as it is?

I'd like to see the current Turks at least think about their "lost" comrades and have a scene where they reuight with them during the evacution of Midgar after Cloud and his friends defeat Hojo-Sicko.
 

Unit-01

Waiting on Evangelion 3.0+1.0
AKA
Sicarius VI, Pink Guy, Sic, Anthony
Yeah, it's kinda disappointing that most people don't want the FFVII remake to be connected with the Compilation which is in fact, Canon.

I'm also miffed that Before Crisis will never get a remake or that we'll never get a new sequel set after Dirge of Cerberus to answer what Genesis will is doing after the secret ending. What was the point in making it if they're just leaving it as it is?

I'd like to see the current Turks at least think about their "lost" comrades and have a scene where they reuight with them during the evacution of Midgar after Cloud and his friends defeat Hojo-Sicko.

It's really nice to see people on here have the same thoughts as me regarding FF7. :D

First off I feel the exact same way as you do with DOC. After I had played through the game originally, which was a while ago I was left wondering what happened next because of Genesis. To answer Tennyo, DOC came out in 2005 IIRC so it's been a while and we haven't heard anything regarding another installment to the compilation to finish the story. Also unless times have changed, didn't they say the Compilation of FF7 would be done with by 2017(which at the time didn't include Remake)? If so, then it's unlikely we'll ever get Genesis's story resolved.

Also I haven't heard about people not wanting Remake to be apart of the compilation, so I hope that means it's in the minority. To add the game will have a lot of stuff expanded in it like possibly completed Midgar(instead of the few sectors and 2 reactors we get), so it would just be odd to say the least if they didn't include compilation nodes and such in Remake.

With the other turks, I'm sure there could be more ways than one to fit them in. Again I'm mostly just wanting Cissnei to make an apperance and talk to Cloud(which actually may cause a headache for him depending on when in the story this would take place if at all).
 

Lex

Administrator
Let me try and clear some of this up:

To answer Tennyo, DOC came out in 2005 IIRC so it's been a while and we haven't heard anything regarding another installment to the compilation to finish the story.
No, there has been no word on another installment in the compilation. We have some threads on this matter, it's been discussed a few times.

Also unless times have changed, didn't they say the Compilation of FF7 would be done with by 2017(which at the time didn't include Remake)? If so, then it's unlikely we'll ever get Genesis's story resolved.
You're referring to a comment made by someone at SE (I have the link somewhere, I feel like it was Yoichi Wada) which said something along the lines of "The Compilation of FFVII could last for 20 years". This wasn't an "it will be finished by then" comment, it was simply referring to the life of what's already out there/ potential projects we might never see (may have been cancelled).

The fact is, Crisis Core is the only title that scored marginally well in terms of sales and critics. The FFVII fanbase on the whole hated what the compilation did with the characters, regardless of whether or not the games were actually enjoyable. And people particularly disliked Genesis.

However, most fans are expecting them to tie in the Compilation in some way. As in nods, references. Square-Enix are aware that any major changes to the original game in the remake to reflect the Compilation is a one-way ticket to extreme hatred, so I doubt they'll go down that road. Small references, absolutely. Everyone is expecting that. Hours of Genesis popping up reciting Loveless? They'll face destruction, and rightly so. This is a remake of the original, not the bullshittery the Compilation introduced (let it be noted that I'm one of the few who actually enjoyed some aspects of the compilation).

What the remake DOES do, is - if it's successful - open the door for a meaningful epilogue DLC/ episode that takes place after Dirge, and conclusively ends the compilation. Which to be frank I think is something they're going to want to do creatively, even if business heads at SE want to continue to milk the franchise for all it's worth.
 

Starling

Pro Adventurer
I'm fine with compilation nods but I can't think of a way Cissnei can meet Cloud pre memory fix without causing problems and inserting a CC's version of Zack's death, game play and all would be too big a change, especially since Zack's death as seen in the OG is framed as a flashback from Cloud's perspective.
 

Tashasaurous

Tash for Short
AKA
Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
Let me try and clear some of this up:

You're referring to a comment made by someone at SE (I have the link somewhere, I feel like it was Yoichi Wada) which said something along the lines of "The Compilation of FFVII could last for 20 years". This wasn't an "it will be finished by then" comment, it was simply referring to the life of what's already out there/ potential projects we might never see (may have been cancelled).
If they had been cancelled, why not just come out and say it like they did with other projects instead of just leaving fans who loved the Compilation left hanging for the rest of their lives? I mean, I knew for the fact that Agito Vita and the international releases would eventually be cancelled due to technical(I know, I have bad spelling, sorry) problems the moment they mentioned it was delayed in January last year, but that's different compared to what's really happening with the franchise.

Plus, there was an artical in Wikipedia in the Advent Children section that Nomura said that Advent Children Complete did not mark the end of the Compilation.

The fact is, Crisis Core is the only title that scored marginally well in terms of sales and critics. The FFVII fanbase on the whole hated what the compilation did with the characters, regardless of whether or not the games were actually enjoyable. And people particularly disliked Genesis.
Guess I kinda agree to that, but I liked all of the titles, even the novellas, and if they developed Before Crisis on a different console rather than mobiles, then maybe it could've helped.

Not everyone dislikes Genesis, you know.


However, most fans are expecting them to tie in the Compilation in some way. As in nods, references. Square-Enix are aware that any major changes to the original game in the remake to reflect the Compilation is a one-way ticket to extreme hatred, so I doubt they'll go down that road. Small references, absolutely. Everyone is expecting that. Hours of Genesis popping up reciting Loveless? They'll face destruction, and rightly so. This is a remake of the original, not the bullshittery the Compilation introduced (let it be noted that I'm one of the few who actually enjoyed some aspects of the compilation).
That can't really be true. I mean, if that's the case, then why even borther in putting in new story contents in the first place? But then again, I have learned very early years ago that in my opinion, Remake is just another way of saying "Reboot". I was hoping to see more of the Compilation and Genesis doesn't HAVE to be in the remake himself.

I mean, not everyone can fit in all of titles in every franchise. For example, Hojo and Lucrecia weren't mentioned in Advent Children, and the Turks(Reno, Rude, Tseng and Elena I mean, not Vincent), Zack and Aerith were in the same vote in Dirge of Cerberus. Barret wasn't mentioned in Crisis Core and neither were Marlene or Vincent. Cloud and Tifa are the only ones who appeared in all of the titles.

The Compilation is somewhat like the Pokemon anime or the Kingdom Hearts franchise. Genesis doesn't even have to be mentioned since Cloud barely remembered him since he only seen him once, and because he could remember more about Sephiroth, that bit of Zack's memory could be used in a sequel of Dirge of Cerberus if Square Enix would do it. Cissnei made her apperence in both Before Crisis and Crisis Core.

And then there's Azul, who made an appearence in Before Crisis as well, which also explains his monsterous apperence in Dirge of Cerberus too. Besides, like real life people, characters change.

What the remake DOES do, is - if it's successful - open the door for a meaningful epilogue DLC/ episode that takes place after Dirge, and conclusively ends the compilation. Which to be frank I think is something they're going to want to do creatively, even if business heads at SE want to continue to milk the franchise for all it's worth.
But in the end, despite the new Epilogue episode that takes place after Dirge, there could still be more questions that could still end up having players and fans ask, "What happens next?" regarding to the secret ending in Dirge of Cerberus. Plus, Cloud is one of the Final Fantasy icons, which is why he appeared in the KH franchise more often than others(and I do hope he reappears in KH3).

What the main problem I think is why the Company is having trouble is because of the mobile games which, mobiles are much more fragile than most other technologies. Example, if they developed their mobile games to like say, 3DS, Vita or PS3/4, then maybe they could've been more successful.

Not only that, FFXIII franchise pretty much killed off the Final Fantasy hype, which is also why FFXV(back then when it was known as Versus XIII) took ten years in development hell.

Plus, they focus too much in the high quality and fail to pay more attention on how the story of games these days should turn out. I think so, at least.
 

Unit-01

Waiting on Evangelion 3.0+1.0
AKA
Sicarius VI, Pink Guy, Sic, Anthony
Let me try and clear some of this up:

No, there has been no word on another installment in the compilation. We have some threads on this matter, it's been discussed a few times.

The fact is, Crisis Core is the only title that scored marginally well in terms of sales and critics. The FFVII fanbase on the whole hated what the compilation did with the characters, regardless of whether or not the games were actually enjoyable. And people particularly disliked Genesis.

What the remake DOES do, is - if it's successful - open the door for a meaningful epilogue DLC/ episode that takes place after Dirge, and conclusively ends the compilation. Which to be frank I think is something they're going to want to do creatively, even if business heads at SE want to continue to milk the franchise for all it's worth.
Thanks for the reference, I was thinking of making new thread about what comes after DOC question but I won't have to now.

I can agree with that, a lot of people in particular didn't like his appearance in Nibelheim screwing up the original lore of FF7. I'd be fine without seeing Genesis, and clearly lore wise we should be seeing him. I'd also think fans are much more accepting of other aspects of the compilation than Genesis.

I am sure the Remake will do good. And it would be nice to get a follow up.

As for other things, like Cissnei and playable Zack, it's personally what I want and hope they put into the Remake.
 
There are at least two good reasons not to make direct tie ins with the remake to the compilation though -
1. Inconsistencies caused by the later additions.
2. Inaccessibility (CC is only available physically on PSP, AC is a dated movie that a lot of potential new fans won't have seen, novellas/mobile games only having very narrow and limited reach, and DoC is also, as far as I know, only available physically on the PS2)

Since they're already doing rewrites to the original plot, I can't imagine them not doing/wanting to do rewrites on compilation material that they may or may not choose to add to the game, meaning that what we're likely looking at is a new take on the entire canon, not just the canon of the original.
Even if Characters like Genesis, or Angeal are references or make appearances I think it's likely there will be differences in those scenes from the original material simply due to the fact that A.) it's all going to have to be remade anyways, and B.) they've already made changes to the compilation canon with Cloud coming into the first reactor with the non-compilation Buster Sword.

Since the compilation, with the one exception of AC, is ridiculously unaccessible and narrow in reach as is, it will also probably not be something on the front of the minds of the team to incorporate it as a significant part of the lore.

As some people have said - maybe a subtle nod or wink here and there. But I'm also seeing a distinct possibility that they'll use a lot of the compilation ideas and basic plot concepts, but rewrite and redesign it to fit with the new look and feel of the remake, and be more consistent with the new plot.

I'm more and more convinced that this remake will retcon not only stuff from the original, but that it will be an entirely new take on the entirety of the canon I.E not a parallel new product that is supposed to work with the other stuff already there, but a standalone product that exists in its own unique universe.

I'm actually more fine with compilation elements being added if they're being remade much the same as the original, to fit with the new plot, rather than the other way around - the remake being written to make sense with the compilation.
 

Lex

Administrator
If they had been cancelled, why not just come out and say it like they did with other projects instead of just leaving fans who loved the Compilation left hanging for the rest of their lives? I mean, I knew for the fact that Agito Vita and the international releases would eventually be cancelled due to technical(I know, I have bad spelling, sorry) problems the moment they mentioned it was delayed in January last year, but that's different compared to what's really happening with the franchise.

Plus, there was an artical in Wikipedia in the Advent Children section that Nomura said that Advent Children Complete did not mark the end of the Compilation.
Because they'd never announced any other Compilation titles in the first place. They may have hinted that they were coming, but they had a slew of unannounced projects that were cancelled after the financial loss caused by the original FFXIV. Agito had been announced, so they had to mention it was cancelled. Unannounced compilation titles may even have been cancelled before this due to the relatively poor performance of the rest of it.

Not everyone dislikes Genesis, you know.
Choose ten random FFVII fans dotted around the internet and you are guaranteed two things. One is that half of them probably won't even know who he is or will only have a vague memory of him, and the other is those that do generally can't stand him. You are correct that not everyone dislikes him, but it's incorrect to state that and assume this means he's due some focus on the FFVII remake. I have literally come across three or four people on the history of this board who have the patience to write about why they actually like him. And this is usually after wading through people like me, who'd be happy to see him deleted from existence if they explained it properly :monster:

FFVII has sold at least 11 million copies (not even including PSN sales for which there is no data). Genesis's home title is Crisis Core, which has sold around 3 million copies (accurate, because it's only ever been available physically for the PSP). Still an impressive figure - particularly for a PSP title - but a disparity of 8 million who played the original. Dirge sales are utterly miserable by comparison (1.48 million). The reason Dirge sales are so terrible is that the PS2 is one of the best selling consoles of all time. 1.48 million sales on that is like 100,000 on the PSP.

tl;dr, very few people like Genesis or indeed even know who he is.

That can't really be true. I mean, if that's the case, then why even borther in putting in new story contents in the first place? But then again, I have learned very early years ago that in my opinion, Remake is just another way of saying "Reboot". I was hoping to see more of the Compilation and Genesis doesn't HAVE to be in the remake himself.

I mean, not everyone can fit in all of titles in every franchise. For example, Hojo and Lucrecia weren't mentioned in Advent Children, and the Turks(Reno, Rude, Tseng and Elena I mean, not Vincent), Zack and Aerith were in the same vote in Dirge of Cerberus. Barret wasn't mentioned in Crisis Core and neither were Marlene or Vincent. Cloud and Tifa are the only ones who appeared in all of the titles.

And then there's Azul, who made an appearence in Before Crisis as well, which also explains his monsterous apperence in Dirge of Cerberus too. Besides, like real life people, characters change.
They're adding "new story" to expand upon story segments that were brushed over in the original, this is something they've been pretty clear about. This also probably means they'll tie in the Compilation in small ways.

The problem is, there was room for already well known characters in the compilation titles, Square-Enix just chose to create these new villains and other characters with ridiculous titles like "Rosso the Crimson" and "Azul the Cerulean" (fucking hell I hate even typing it out) which took up chunks of story that would have been better served with something at least vaguely familiar to FFVII's original plot. They wasted an opportunity to expand on parts of VII's history that were actually interesting, like the Cetra or the point of XIII's tribe, or the existence of the Forgotten Capital, even going so far as to invent new towns for no reason (Modeoheim, Banora) just so they could explain away these people and things not existing in the original game after Crisis Core.

Square-Enix are just bad at sequels. They're bad. They have no idea how to recapture the essence and feel of their original games. To them I think it's avoiding stagnation, but to a fan it's just not a sequel.

But in the end, despite the new Epilogue episode that takes place after Dirge, there could still be more questions that could still end up having players and fans ask, "What happens next?" regarding to the secret ending in Dirge of Cerberus. Plus, Cloud is one of the Final Fantasy icons, which is why he appeared in the KH franchise more often than others(and I do hope he reappears in KH3).

What the main problem I think is why the Company is having trouble is because of the mobile games which, mobiles are much more fragile than most other technologies. Example, if they developed their mobile games to like say, 3DS, Vita or PS3/4, then maybe they could've been more successful.

Not only that, FFXIII franchise pretty much killed off the Final Fantasy hype, which is also why FFXV(back then when it was known as Versus XIII) took ten years in development hell.

Plus, they focus too much in the high quality and fail to pay more attention on how the story of games these days should turn out. I think so, at least.
I assume you're referring to Before Crisis when you mention mobile games, since we're talking about how the Compilation will affect the FFVII Remake here. Before Crisis is terrible. It gives an interesting insight into the Turks, but it's an awful game. Had they developed it for another system, it might be a better game, but its sales would still suck because the only people playing it would be the hardcore fans that managed to slog through the rest of the compilation (i.e. the people here).

I say all of this as a person who actually enjoyed the compilation. I hate what it did (and didn't do) to FFVII as a whole, but I didn't have a miserable time playing it.
 
And I would reiterate that if Genesis were absent from the remake, it would of course please many people. But it would ALSO not constitute a retcon or a wiping him from existence. Because even in the Compilation's wacky timeline, he was SUPPOSED to be absent during the original game.
 

He says that there were aspects of the compilation that were unclear, were not properly explained, and he wants to tie those together - literally, not that he will tie the compilation together with the remake as is, but that he will strive to piece together the parts of the compilation that don't make sense, or lacked clarity.
There's a deceptive distinction there.

One can mistakenly take it to mean that he says he wants to tie the compilation into the remake [as is] (which would be incorrect), as opposed to taking it to mean that he wishes to use the remake to tie together the various inconsistencies and lack of clarity throughout the compilation.

The "tie together" used here literally refers to the various parts of the compilation, not the compilation to the remake, although the latter would necessarily follow to some degree from the former in the context he speaks of here.

Simply put - just like we can expect rewrites to the original canon, we can expect rewrites to the canon added after to fit better with the new plot - which would probably be compilation material that directly relates to telling of the original plot.

To exemplify - is it reasonable to expect a more fully fleshed out Nibelheim flashback at some point, or Zack being introduced as a character in a more thorough way than in the original, harkening back to Crisis Core?
Sure. But we can also expect that whatever inconsistencies or problems introduced with CC will be addressed and changed as well.
The removal/rewrite of Genesis/Angeal and their roles for instance, could be one such change.

Again - the intro shown in the remake trailer already breaks with the intro provided by the CC ending. They're already showing hints of rewrites.
I think it's very likely that they'll be leaning on the compilation for things to add in order to flesh out the remake, but these things are no more likely to survive without change than the original canon, so to call it a "tie in" at that point, as if it's just another product meant to make sense and fit into the larger compilation of FFVII, rather than, literally, be a new standard of a new canon entirely, I think is misplaced.
 

Unit-01

Waiting on Evangelion 3.0+1.0
AKA
Sicarius VI, Pink Guy, Sic, Anthony
Let me fix this, still haven't figured out how to edit my posts.:(

I'd be fine without seeing Genesis, and clearly lore wise we shouldn't be seeing him.

This was what I was referring to for the most part. Again wanting Cissnei in the game and the other Turks is what I personally would like to see. But I'm sure many who know about the compilation would like some of the inconsistencies fixed/re-written.

He says that there were aspects of the compilation that were unclear, were not properly explained, and he wants to tie those together - literally, not that he will tie the compilation together with the remake as is, but that he will strive to piece together the parts of the compilation that don't make sense, or lacked clarity.
There's a deceptive distinction there.
 

Starling

Pro Adventurer
You can't edit posts right away. You'll be able to do it once you've posted more.

Weighing in on the compilation's inclusion again, I'm of the opinion it has a lot of wasted potential that would require varying degrees of rewriting to make good use of. If they can do that, then the remake should be able to blend elements of the compilation into the OG's main plot. The OG already had its dates pretty straight before the compilation went and muddled things up and as the OG it's what should be kept by default.
 

Tashasaurous

Tash for Short
AKA
Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
There are at least two good reasons not to make direct tie ins with the remake to the compilation though -
1. Inconsistencies caused by the later additions.
2. Inaccessibility (CC is only available physically on PSP, AC is a dated movie that a lot of potential new fans won't have seen, novellas/mobile games only having very narrow and limited reach, and DoC is also, as far as I know, only available physically on the PS2)

Since they're already doing rewrites to the original plot, I can't imagine them not doing/wanting to do rewrites on compilation material that they may or may not choose to add to the game, meaning that what we're likely looking at is a new take on the entire canon, not just the canon of the original.
Even if Characters like Genesis, or Angeal are references or make appearances I think it's likely there will be differences in those scenes from the original material simply due to the fact that A.) it's all going to have to be remade anyways, and B.) they've already made changes to the compilation canon with Cloud coming into the first reactor with the non-compilation Buster Sword.

Since the compilation, with the one exception of AC, is ridiculously unaccessible and narrow in reach as is, it will also probably not be something on the front of the minds of the team to incorporate it as a significant part of the lore.

As some people have said - maybe a subtle nod or wink here and there. But I'm also seeing a distinct possibility that they'll use a lot of the compilation ideas and basic plot concepts, but rewrite and redesign it to fit with the new look and feel of the remake, and be more consistent with the new plot.

I'm more and more convinced that this remake will retcon not only stuff from the original, but that it will be an entirely new take on the entirety of the canon I.E not a parallel new product that is supposed to work with the other stuff already there, but a standalone product that exists in its own unique universe.

I'm actually more fine with compilation elements being added if they're being remade much the same as the original, to fit with the new plot, rather than the other way around - the remake being written to make sense with the compilation.
If that's the case, then why even borther in showing the Compilation titles in the article when they released the article first showing the Remake if they're not even going to be connected in the first place?

Because they'd never announced any other Compilation titles in the first place. They may have hinted that they were coming, but they had a slew of unannounced projects that were cancelled after the financial loss caused by the original FFXIV. Agito had been announced, so they had to mention it was cancelled. Unannounced compilation titles may even have been cancelled before this due to the relatively poor performance of the rest of it.
Even so, they still should've just made a new article like, "However, in "At this date" those ideas were scrapped due to the fiancel losses." instead of just leaving it in the dark for several years until 2017, which at this point, it's coming to the point where they'll mention the cancellation of those ideas in 2017 rather than earlier, which makes me so angry with them.

Choose ten random FFVII fans dotted around the internet and you are guaranteed two things. One is that half of them probably won't even know who he is or will only have a vague memory of him, and the other is those that do generally can't stand him. You are correct that not everyone dislikes him, but it's incorrect to state that and assume this means he's due some focus on the FFVII remake. I have literally come across three or four people on the history of this board who have the patience to write about why they actually like him. And this is usually after wading through people like me, who'd be happy to see him deleted from existence if they explained it properly.

FFVII has sold at least 11 million copies (not even including PSN sales for which there is no data). Genesis's home title is Crisis Core, which has sold around 3 million copies (accurate, because it's only ever been available physically for the PSP). Still an impressive figure - particularly for a PSP title - but a disparity of 8 million who played the original. Dirge sales are utterly miserable by comparison (1.48 million). The reason Dirge sales are so terrible is that the PS2 is one of the best selling consoles of all time. 1.48 million sales on that is like 100,000 on the PSP.

tl;dr, very few people like Genesis or indeed even know who he is.
....Would you rather say the same thing about the Kingdom Hearts franchise with Xehanort, Terra, Aqua, Ventus, Eraqus and Vanitas like with Genesis?

They're adding "new story" to expand upon story segments that were brushed over in the original, this is something they've been pretty clear about. This also probably means they'll tie in the Compilation in small ways.

The problem is, there was room for already well known characters in the compilation titles, Square-Enix just chose to create these new villains and other characters with ridiculous titles like "Rosso the Crimson" and "Azul the Cerulean" (fucking hell I hate even typing it out) which took up chunks of story that would have been better served with something at least vaguely familiar to FFVII's original plot. They wasted an opportunity to expand on parts of VII's history that were actually interesting, like the Cetra or the point of XIII's tribe, or the existence of the Forgotten Capital, even going so far as to invent new towns for no reason (Modeoheim, Banora) just so they could explain away these people and things not existing in the original game after Crisis Core.

Square-Enix are just bad at sequels. They're bad. They have no idea how to recapture the essence and feel of their original games. To them I think it's avoiding stagnation, but to a fan it's just not a sequel.
Would you say the same thing with the Pokemon franchises or the Disney studios as well? Other studios have problems with sequels too, not just Square Enix. If that's the case, then why did anyone bother with sequels in everything in the first place? Besides, Dirge of Cerberus was a selected choice as the first and only shooters game for Square Enix, and Vincent was chosen from the selections of list.

Not only that, they have to add something, and in regards to FFVII Compilation, you can't just have the same villians over and over again. New bad guys had to pop out somewhere. In retrospect, the sequels and prequels of FFVII are much better than FFX-2(actually, I liked that due to the happy ending and I'm one of those happy ending types) or the FFXIII(why you even mentioned FFXIII when it's not even tied with FFVII at all?) trilogy, or even Reveant Wings.

As for prequels, they had to make new locations, because the world is giagantic. You can't just explore the same places over and over again. That gets boring after a while.

It's like adding new things into other titles in other franchises. That's what they do with movies or games.

I assume you're referring to Before Crisis when you mention mobile games, since we're talking about how the Compilation will affect the FFVII Remake here. Before Crisis is terrible. It gives an interesting insight into the Turks, but it's an awful game. Had they developed it for another system, it might be a better game, but its sales would still suck because the only people playing it would be the hardcore fans that managed to slog through the rest of the compilation (i.e. the people here).

I say all of this as a person who actually enjoyed the compilation. I hate what it did (and didn't do) to FFVII as a whole, but I didn't have a miserable time playing it.
Well, then, it still leaves to my point that if it ever got a remake, they could change the gameplay style to like say, similiar to both KH and Crisis Core but in a more free range. Similiar to the character selection with Organization XIII in KH358/2 Days.

Not only that, mobiles are used for as carrying phones and messages, not for games like huge company projects, which is why they always have trouble them in the first place.

And I would reiterate that if Genesis were absent from the remake, it would of course please many people. But it would ALSO not constitute a retcon or a wiping him from existence. Because even in the Compilation's wacky timeline, he was SUPPOSED to be absent during the original game.
Like I said, Genesis doesn't have to be mentioned, even in the remake, but at the same time, he can't just be wiped out from existance. Plus, the game is from mostly Cloud's point of view along with those close to him who are still alive and the focus is Sephiroth.

Sequels and Prequels are supposed to bring forth questions like, "Why did this person do what they did in the first place?" or "Why do they want the world destroyed and do not care about humanity?" or "What was the person like before they turned evil or good?" or somewhere along the lines and how the fight may not be over or how some bad guys turn somewhat good after learning their lessons.

It's only later when said main key to situations then guys like Genesis need to be put back into the picture and give out one final threat connected to ShinRa, and the past. Plus, there's also the goddess Minerva from Crisis Core who gives Genesis a second chance.


He says that there were aspects of the compilation that were unclear, were not properly explained, and he wants to tie those together - literally, not that he will tie the compilation together with the remake as is, but that he will strive to piece together the parts of the compilation that don't make sense, or lacked clarity.
There's a deceptive distinction there.

One can mistakenly take it to mean that he says he wants to tie the compilation into the remake [as is] (which would be incorrect), as opposed to taking it to mean that he wishes to use the remake to tie together the various inconsistencies and lack of clarity throughout the compilation.

The "tie together" used here literally refers to the various parts of the compilation, not the compilation to the remake, although the latter would necessarily follow to some degree from the former in the context he speaks of here.

Simply put - just like we can expect rewrites to the original canon, we can expect rewrites to the canon added after to fit better with the new plot - which would probably be compilation material that directly relates to telling of the original plot.

To exemplify - is it reasonable to expect a more fully fleshed out Nibelheim flashback at some point, or Zack being introduced as a character in a more thorough way than in the original, harkening back to Crisis Core?
Sure. But we can also expect that whatever inconsistencies or problems introduced with CC will be addressed and changed as well.
The removal/rewrite of Genesis/Angeal and their roles for instance, could be one such change.

Again - the intro shown in the remake trailer already breaks with the intro provided by the CC ending. They're already showing hints of rewrites.
I think it's very likely that they'll be leaning on the compilation for things to add in order to flesh out the remake, but these things are no more likely to survive without change than the original canon, so to call it a "tie in" at that point, as if it's just another product meant to make sense and fit into the larger compilation of FFVII, rather than, literally, be a new standard of a new canon entirely, I think is misplaced.
What you're saying is that they should make another Compilation and start from scratch(which they are in a way) and abandon the Compilation of FFVII, is that it? So rather than at least create on last title that finally answers on what happens 500 years later, they want to start all over again like they never created it in the first place? If so, then they might as all redo ALL of the Final Fantasy games started with Final Fantasy 1 from 1987.

Let me fix this, still haven't figured out how to edit my posts.:(

I'd be fine without seeing Genesis, and clearly lore wise we shouldn't be seeing him.

This was what I was referring to for the most part. Again wanting Cissnei in the game and the other Turks is what I personally would like to see. But I'm sure many who know about the compilation would like some of the inconsistencies fixed/re-written.
I'd like them to fix a little bit up of Dirge of Cerberus, remake Before Crisis, fix up Crisis Core like how they kinda redid Advent Children, but not redo the entire thing and just leave the Compilation into the darkness.

He says that there were aspects of the compilation that were unclear, were not properly explained, and he wants to tie those together - literally, not that he will tie the compilation together with the remake as is, but that he will strive to piece together the parts of the compilation that don't make sense, or lacked clarity.
There's a deceptive distinction there.
At this point, I've lost my trust in Nomura. They never should've picked him as director in the first place. Sure he can produce and is fantasic as a character designer(though I prefer the Advent Children era designs and the KH designs far better than the new designs, and I'm still edgy and miffed on how they gave Barret sunglasses).

You can't edit posts right away. You'll be able to do it once you've posted more.

Weighing in on the compilation's inclusion again, I'm of the opinion it has a lot of wasted potential that would require varying degrees of rewriting to make good use of. If they can do that, then the remake should be able to blend elements of the compilation into the OG's main plot. The OG already had its dates pretty straight before the compilation went and muddled things up and as the OG it's what should be kept by default.
Which in the end, leaves to my main point that both Remake and Rewrite are just saying "Reboot" in two different languages.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Tasha said:
Even so, they still should've just made a new article like, "However, in "At this date" those ideas were scrapped due to the fiancel losses." instead of just leaving it in the dark for several years until 2017, which at this point, it's coming to the point where they'll mention the cancellation of those ideas in 2017 rather than earlier, which makes me so angry with them.
Is there a reason you've ignored the half dozen instances of someone pointing out that 2017 thing was 1) not meant to be a hard and fast rule when it was brought up the first time anyway, 2) that it came from a past SE president who has been removed from the position, and 3) no company is going to throw away a lucrative prospect on account of some 12-year-old offhand comment just because a past president said it?

Tasha said:
What you're saying is that they should make another Compilation and start from scratch(which they are in a way) and abandon the Compilation of FFVII, is that it? So rather than at least create on last title that finally answers on what happens 500 years later, they want to start all over again like they never created it in the first place? If so, then they might as all redo ALL of the Final Fantasy games started with Final Fantasy 1 from 1987.
That's not what hian is saying. What he's saying is that just as the remake is likely to change details of the original game's canon, it may iron out some of the wrinkles with the Compilation by changing some details that relate to it.

Essentially, the same thing the Compilation titles did to the original game, this remake of the original game may do to the Compilation titles while it's revising and expanding the original.

This is also all speculation, though. They may just try to make the remake fit with established elements from the Compilation. Or, for all we know, they could alter details of the Compilation to better fit the original FFVII.

Personally, I find hian's suggestion the most likely possibility. They will alter whatever they feel they need to (or whatever Nomura's mood calls for).
 

Lex

Administrator
Tash said:
Even so, they still should've just made a new article like, "However, in "At this date" those ideas were scrapped due to the fiancel losses." instead of just leaving it in the dark for several years until 2017, which at this point, it's coming to the point where they'll mention the cancellation of those ideas in 2017 rather than earlier, which makes me so angry with them.
Why? What responsibility does Square Enix have to you to tell you about all of their cancelled projects that were never announced? What good does it do to know? They might not even exist. It's pointless.

Tash said:
....Would you rather say the same thing about the Kingdom Hearts franchise with Xehanort, Terra, Aqua, Ventus, Eraqus and Vanitas like with Genesis?
I can barely make sense of this. But if you're saying what I think you're saying, you're trying to compare apples with nuclear power plants. As in, there is no comparison and there's no real point here. Random characters in Kingdom Hearts (a franchise in which every single title sells well and doesn't have established canon years old to mess with) have no bearing on a discussion about Genesis's importance to the Compilation of FFVII. Literally none.

Tash said:
Would you say the same thing with the Pokemon franchises or the Disney studios as well? Other studios have problems with sequels too, not just Square Enix. If that's the case, then why did anyone bother with sequels in everything in the first place? Besides, Dirge of Cerberus was a selected choice as the first and only shooters game for Square Enix, and Vincent was chosen from the selections of list.

[snip]
Did you really just try to use Pokémon to illustrate how sequels need to be different? XD XD XD XD XD XD

No really though, back to Square-Enix. They have consistently shown that they are bad at maintaining canon - or at least atmosphere - in their sequels. Whatever they establish, they subsequently destroy. This has been the case with every single direct sequel they've ever made. New characters are fine, nobody is saying there shouldn't be new characters. What they should have done is used established canon and areas that desperately needed expanding already to create those new characters. And they had plenty of characters and stories they could have told that went entirely ignored.

Zack's story and Crisis Core would have been interesting enough without an invented villain we know was never meant to exist in the first place. That's why Genesis is so problematic really. I feel differently but just as badly about Dirge. They had an opportunity to create an interesting villain borne from the events of the original game since it's three years later, but no. We have a secret lab/training ground that's been running for a still-unclear number of years, screws with original canon and they all have ridiculous titles like "Azul the Cerulean" which don't mesh at all with VII's overall lore. Hell, they could have made the villain Lucrecia herself after she discovers the truth about Sephiroth's end. THAT would have been interesting, and fitting in so many more ways for a game that's supposed to be about Vincent. Why do we need Shelke? Why do we need Shalua? We already have eight other characters we care about and actually want to know what they've been up to. Not that some of those weren't positive additions, but there was no need for them other than "SE felt like it because NEW! INNOVATIVE! MUST BE DIFFERENT!". Praise to Dirge for at least giving a bit of focus to Reeve.

Tash said:
Well, then, it still leaves to my point that if it ever got a remake, they could change the gameplay style to like say, similiar to both KH and Crisis Core but in a more free range. Similiar to the character selection with Organization XIII in KH358/2 Days.

Not only that, mobiles are used for as carrying phones and messages, not for games like huge company projects, which is why they always have trouble them in the first place.
You never made a point about them remaking Before Crisis. Speaking with you is literally like navigating a labyrinth of enigmas. Half the time I don't understand what you're trying to say, and when I do it still doesn't make any sense.
 

Tashasaurous

Tash for Short
AKA
Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
Is there a reason you've ignored the half dozen instances of someone pointing out that 2017 thing was 1) not meant to be a hard and fast rule when it was brought up the first time anyway, 2) that it came from a past SE president who has been removed from the position, and 3) no company is going to throw away a lucrative prospect on account of some 12-year-old offhand comment just because a past president said it?
They never said anything in changing or cancelling those plans. Or maybe Wikipedia has down extremtely down hill I should stop visiting that site.

That's not what hian is saying. What he's saying is that just as the remake is likely to change details of the original game's canon, it may iron out some of the wrinkles with the Compilation by changing some details that relate to it.

Essentially, the same thing the Compilation titles did to the original game, this remake of the original game may do to the Compilation titles while it's revising and expanding the original.

This is also all speculation, though. They may just try to make the remake fit with established elements from the Compilation. Or, for all we know, they could alter details of the Compilation to better fit the original FFVII.

Personally, I find hian's suggestion the most likely possibility. They will alter whatever they feel they need to (or whatever Nomura's mood calls for).
Guess you have a point. Besides, they altered Sephiroth's realisation within the Jenova Chamber in Nibelhiem by adding Genesis to add the tension. Maybe they should've just had him appear to Zack at night time alone rather than convince (unadventirly) Sephiroth to lose his mind.

Why? What responsibility does Square Enix have to you to tell you about all of their cancelled projects that were never announced? What good does it do to know? They might not even exist. It's pointless.
Because it's like how, whatever his name is being extremtely silent on National Treasure 3(even if that's not the point). Everyone else has made their changes of minds on everything else. I know those projects were never announced, however, they said "Ideas for the future of FFVII Compilation" to continue the franchise, and none of those ideas were even close to other ideas in other Final Fantasy titles.

It would've been nice for them to say that they changed their minds or something, like "However, in ????(whatever that date is), those idaes were shelved and scrapped" or something like that.


I can barely make sense of this. But if you're saying what I think you're saying, you're trying to compare apples with nuclear power plants. As in, there is no comparison and there's no real point here. Random characters in Kingdom Hearts (a franchise in which every single title sells well and doesn't have established canon years old to mess with) have no bearing on a discussion about Genesis's importance to the Compilation of FFVII. Literally none.
What I'm trying to say is,(and I'm very sorry for my bad attitude, and, who on earth came up with an idea to compare apples with nuclear power plants?), that like Genesis, there were characters added that probably didn't even need to be added if you're thinking along those lines.

For example, Eraqus, Xehanort's true self(80 year old man who would be the ealry 30's villian in ten years time by taking over a youth's body), Terra, Ventus and Aqua and even Vanitas, all that.

Plus, Kingdom Hearts sold well because Square Enix had to be careful this time, because half of that belongs to Disney who are very strict with their work(the company is still owned by Walt's family to this day and they even refuse to reveal more information on KH3 because they hate killing off protagonists), not to mess up. If they like say, payed a bit more attention to the dialogue, storyline and gameplay, then yeah, maybe FFVII Compilation could've been better, and more information could be brought out.

...Okay, I admit it, even that last sentence didn't make sense. (Sweatdrops)


Did you really just try to use Pokémon to illustrate how sequels need to be different? XD XD XD XD XD XD
Well, if you really think about it, up until Final Fantasy XI(gameplay wise), both Final Fantasy and Pokemon had almost the exact same gameplay in their titles, the same different stories each time, the same different protagonists and added titles with the trademark titles as well.

Only difference is that Final Fantasy uses human protagonists to control and fight, while in Pokemon, you can only move your human protagonists while the Pokemon do all the fighting.


No really though, back to Square-Enix. They have consistently shown that they are bad at maintaining canon - or at least atmosphere - in their sequels. Whatever they establish, they subsequently destroy. This has been the case with every single direct sequel they've ever made. New characters are fine, nobody is saying there shouldn't be new characters. What they should have done is used established canon and areas that desperately needed expanding already to create those new characters. And they had plenty of characters and stories they could have told that went entirely ignored.

Zack's story and Crisis Core would have been interesting enough without an invented villain we know was never meant to exist in the first place. That's why Genesis is so problematic really. I feel differently but just as badly about Dirge. They had an opportunity to create an interesting villain borne from the events of the original game since it's three years later, but no. We have a secret lab/training ground that's been running for a still-unclear number of years, screws with original canon and they all have ridiculous titles like "Azul the Cerulean" which don't mesh at all with VII's overall lore. Hell, they could have made the villain Lucrecia herself after she discovers the truth about Sephiroth's end. THAT would have been interesting, and fitting in so many more ways for a game that's supposed to be about Vincent. Why do we need Shelke? Why do we need Shalua? We already have eight other characters we care about and actually want to know what they've been up to. Not that some of those weren't positive additions, but there was no need for them other than "SE felt like it because NEW! INNOVATIVE! MUST BE DIFFERENT!". Praise to Dirge for at least giving a bit of focus to Reeve.
True, but hey, not every sequels are perfect. You get good sequels, and then you get sucky sequels. I myself found some of their sequels okay, and the only title I actually liked in FFXIII was Lightning Returns, because that had a decent story for once since the first came out.

And, well, they had to have Zack fight a bad guy on his own. If they didn't, then Crisis Core never would've existed, and you'd be stuck in just having Zack do random boring missions, meeting Cloud while not searching for someone at some point, and then just lead all the way up to the Nibelhiem incident, and even then, the running away thing would also be boring. I don't know about you, but even prequels need a different antagonist.

With Dirge, well, I can understand that adding Shelke and Shalua was a bit of an overkill, and maybe they could've expanded Yuffie's development a little, since some people think that she has a crush on Vincent.

Maybe Weiss would've been an interesting borne villian and just have Hojo take over his body to restart the Jenova project from scratch or something like that, but I guess I kinda understand why they added Deepground. Plus, everyone pretty much hates Hojo anyway.

And which would you rather in giving Azul and others stupid names-Azul the Giant-Brute and Rosso the Speed-Fox(since her costume kinda resembles to a fox)?

And fair point on Reeve as well. What I was miffed about Dirge the most was the absence of Tseng, Reno, Rude, Elena and Rufus(who was only shown as a cameo in the beginning and mentioned a few times, but that's pretty much it).

You never made a point about them remaking Before Crisis. Speaking with you is literally like navigating a labyrinth of enigmas. Half the time I don't understand what you're trying to say, and when I do it still doesn't make any sense.
Because despite that Kingdom Hearts Coded was a weak title in the franchise(and everyone does call that one a weak title as well), that was a mobile game as well, and yet, it was remade twice within the recent years.

They could've done the same with Before Crisis with a different gameplay.

Yeah, I try to make sense, but I guess someone else I know who tends to visit a lot to see my parents and who also talks about the most boring things out(like making stupid things out of nothing, a wind catching out of a Coca cola bottle for example) must've finally rubbed off on me. *cringes*.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I would have thought the shit direction KH has taken would be something we could all have agreed on. Who knew. :monster:

Tasha said:
They never said anything in changing or cancelling those plans.
They didn't really need to, though. It was never so much a plan as a comment (basically "This is something we could do"), and the guy who said it was removed for taking the company in a bad direction.

That really says everything we need to know about how much weight it carries. I doubt he planned to get canned, but it happened.
 

Tashasaurous

Tash for Short
AKA
Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
I would have thought the shit direction KH has taken would be something we could all have agreed on. Who knew.

Tasha said:
They never said anything in changing or cancelling those plans.
They didn't really need to, though. It was never so much a plan as a comment (basically "This is something we could do"), and the guy who said it was removed for taking the company in a bad direction.

That really says everything we need to know about how much weight it carries. I doubt he planned to get canned, but it happened.
Yeah, well, in the direction of KH, or any Final Fantasy, Nomura makes a crappy director. He's fine as a producer and character designer, but directing...not really, despite KH being a hit.

As for the guy who was removed as President of Square Enix, and how the Compilation will never be finished, I still don't like how they said they still have ideas for future titles of the Compilation and then that's the last thing they ever said about it and nothing was done yet, which leaves me on edge how they haven't even said anything on those ideas being scrapped.

Someone has to confirm whether those ideas are scrapped or not, not leaving the commented article hanging like a cliff hanger of a movie or show or games. In the end, no one actually knows if those ideas are cancelled or not, which is what I'm trying to say, because no one really knows what will happen.
 
If that's the case, then why even borther in showing the Compilation titles in the article when they released the article first showing the Remake if they're not even going to be connected in the first place?
What article are you referring to here? Something SE released, or something someone else released?
It's not like SE has control over what outlets put in their articles.

Not only that, they have to add something, and in regards to FFVII Compilation, you can't just have the same villians over and over again. New bad guys had to pop out somewhere. In retrospect, the sequels and prequels of FFVII are much better than FFX-2(actually, I liked that due to the happy ending and I'm one of those happy ending types) or the FFXIII(why you even mentioned FFXIII when it's not even tied with FFVII at all?) trilogy, or even Reveant Wings.
That's very context dependent. FFVII already had tons of characters that that could be added on and fleshed out in sequels and prequels, yet they added new ones. Those characters can hardly be said to "necessary". What's more, most of these characters grate like hell with the established tone of the original where characters had names like Barret Wallace and Cloud Strife with a mid 90's visual design, to then suddenly venture into FFXIII-esque gibberish naming and the entire TRON merged with post 2000 Shibuya fashion.


As for prequels, they had to make new locations, because the world is giagantic. You can't just explore the same places over and over again. That gets boring after a while.
BS. The locations already established could easily be expanded to feel fresh, and since they're already relevant to the established plot, they make more sense to use as locations for plot-related embellishments.

Besides, like with the characters they added, the new locations don't mesh well with the original locations, and their naming conventions read like bad fan-fiction.

It's like adding new things into other titles in other franchises. That's what they do with movies or games.
And like with other franchises, such things are prone to change. Look to the comic-book industry for examples.
They already changed things when they introduced the compilation to begin with.
It's incredible how anyone could think the compilation itself would be safe from change or re-imagining when the very original is not.


Like I said, Genesis doesn't have to be mentioned, even in the remake, but at the same time, he can't just be wiped out from existance. Plus, the game is from mostly Cloud's point of view along with those close to him who are still alive and the focus is Sephiroth.
Why not? He was brought into existence completely arbitrarily, so why can't he be removed just the same? Since he didn't factor into the original game at all, why would he be in the remake?

Also, on a practical note - adding Genesis would require a total redesign, because of his connection to Gackt. Licensing issues stemming from that collaboration is one of the primary reasons why we will never see a digital re-release of that game.

If they have to go through all that trouble, they might as well not add him.

What you're saying is that they should make another Compilation and start from scratch(which they are in a way) and abandon the Compilation of FFVII, is that it?
I'm not saying they should do anything. I'm saying that it's very likely based on the fact that they've already changed a scene from the compilation in the trailer (Cloud on the train, wielding the original Buster Sword rather than the compilation one), that the remake is not being written to fit with the compilation - rather it is being written to be its entirely own thing, with whatever aspects of the compilation they decide to include being subject to change to work better with their new plot.


So rather than at least create on last title that finally answers on what happens 500 years later, they want to start all over again like they never created it in the first place? If so, then they might as all redo ALL of the Final Fantasy games started with Final Fantasy 1 from 1987.
Those two do not follow from one another in any way what so ever.

I'd like them to fix a little bit up of Dirge of Cerberus, remake Before Crisis, fix up Crisis Core like how they kinda redid Advent Children, but not redo the entire thing and just leave the Compilation into the darkness.
And personally, I'd like them to burn the compilation to the ground, but alas, we don't always get what we want. I'm just content knowing that whatever they end up doing, we're likely to see a rewrite of everything, rather than forcefully trying to make sense of the train-wreck that is the compilation as it currently stands.

Which in the end, leaves to my main point that both Remake and Rewrite are just saying "Reboot" in two different languages.
Yeah, it's quite clearly a reboot more so than a remake. I don't think most people here will dispute that.
 

Tashasaurous

Tash for Short
AKA
Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
If that's the case, then why even borther in showing the Compilation titles in the article when they released the article first showing the Remake if they're not even going to be connected in the first place?
What article are you referring to here? Something SE released, or something someone else released?
It's not like SE has control over what outlets put in their articles.
In the Compilation of FFVII section on Wikipedia, unless that site wasn't ment to be trusted and I have to stop visiting there.

Not only that, they have to add something, and in regards to FFVII Compilation, you can't just have the same villians over and over again. New bad guys had to pop out somewhere. In retrospect, the sequels and prequels of FFVII are much better than FFX-2(actually, I liked that due to the happy ending and I'm one of those happy ending types) or the FFXIII(why you even mentioned FFXIII when it's not even tied with FFVII at all?) trilogy, or even Reveant Wings.
That's very context dependent. FFVII already had tons of characters that that could be added on and fleshed out in sequels and prequels, yet they added new ones. Those characters can hardly be said to "necessary". What's more, most of these characters grate like hell with the established tone of the original where characters had names like Barret Wallace and Cloud Strife with a mid 90's visual design, to then suddenly venture into FFXIII-esque gibberish naming and the entire TRON merged with post 2000 Shibuya fashion.

In retrospect, everything in FFXIII was a great big mistake.

BS. The locations already established could easily be expanded to feel fresh, and since they're already relevant to the established plot, they make more sense to use as locations for plot-related embellishments.

Besides, like with the characters they added, the new locations don't mesh well with the original locations, and their naming conventions read like bad fan-fiction.
They make new locations in every of their titles all the time. Compilation of FFVII was no exception.

And like with other franchises, such things are prone to change. Look to the comic-book industry for examples.
They already changed things when they introduced the compilation to begin with.
It's incredible how anyone could think the compilation itself would be safe from change or re-imagining when the very original is not.
I would've thought it was just adding new things and that the remake would be remade to kinda fit with the Compilation with some new story content as well as redo the original story at the same time, not just redo the original all together and just leave the Compilation when they had various ideas for future titles. Plus, they did at least confirm that they wouldn't do any more new version of Advent Children after the extended version was released back in 2009.

Nomura himself said that, despite the added new scenes in the film, that the Complete version did not mark the end of the Compilation, nor did Dirge of Cerberus, unless he lied.


Why not? He was brought into existence completely arbitrarily, so why can't he be removed just the same? Since he didn't factor into the original game at all, why would he be in the remake?

Also, on a practical note - adding Genesis would require a total redesign, because of his connection to Gackt. Licensing issues stemming from that collaboration is one of the primary reasons why we will never see a digital re-release of that game.

If they have to go through all that trouble, they might as well not add him.
Memory lapse, secrets that are not told to the main characters who do not know everything, that sort of thing. I mean, come on, Cloud barely remembers Genesis, and we all know how ShinRa hides things, even from the Turks and Rufus.

Plus, Zack never knew about Deepground's existance either. If there was one character I would LOVE to erase from existince, it's Hojo. Genesis doesn't annoy me as much, and he's a bit decent. Not would I call my favorite, but not someone I can practically hate either. Plus, by the time FFVII starts, he was fast asleep within that water tube thing, unnoticed by anyone and fully unaware up until the secret ending of Dirge.

I'm not saying they should do anything. I'm saying that it's very likely based on the fact that they've already changed a scene from the compilation in the trailer (Cloud on the train, wielding the original Buster Sword rather than the compilation one), that the remake is not being written to fit with the compilation - rather it is being written to be its entirely own thing, with whatever aspects of the compilation they decide to include being subject to change to work better with their new plot.

Those two do not follow from one another in any way what so ever.
Well, the trailers were the early "sneak-preview" trailers and not the completed work, so they could change those at short notice. And they did say that they wouldn't reveal any more details regards to the game until both FFXV and KH2.8 are released, which we could be given more info in December this year. Plus, Cloud might've fiddled with the Buster Sword for all we know.

I'd like them to fix a little bit up of Dirge of Cerberus, remake Before Crisis, fix up Crisis Core like how they kinda redid Advent Children, but not redo the entire thing and just leave the Compilation into the darkness.
And personally, I'd like them to burn the compilation to the ground, but alas, we don't always get what we want. I'm just content knowing that whatever they end up doing, we're likely to see a rewrite of everything, rather than forcefully trying to make sense of the train-wreck that is the compilation as it currently stands.
...You really hate sequels, don't you? Even when FFVII and KH are concerned. Me, I hate cliff-hangers, so that's why I'm content in having the questions that were asked for several years to be answered when it comes to things like this.

Which in the end, leaves to my main point that both Remake and Rewrite are just saying "Reboot" in two different languages.
Yeah, it's quite clearly a reboot more so than a remake. I don't think most people here will dispute that.
I was afraid someone would say that eventually, but I'm not surprised. In the end, the Remake is going to be a massive drop in fianance, and a major disappointment. It's a major disappointment to me already and it isn't even out yet. So, I'll just have to avoid it.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Tasha said:
In the Compilation of FFVII section on Wikipedia, unless that site wasn't ment to be trusted and I have to stop visiting there.
Wikipedia can be a great resource if you're reading it with the right expectations. Anyone can edit it, so -- like any other claim you read -- it's only as good as its sources. You should be verifying the references of potentially contentious things you read there. The well-composed articles will reference their sources for almost everything, and, therefore, be reliable.


Tasha said:
Well, the trailers were the early "sneak-preview" trailers and not the completed work, so they could change those at short notice. And they did say that they wouldn't reveal any more details regards to the game until both FFXV and KH2.8 are released, which we could be given more info in December this year. Plus, Cloud might've fiddled with the Buster Sword for all we know.
The gameplay footage they've shown us for the remake also shows Cloud using a Buster Sword with a crossguard resembling that in his original design. It's a lot more likely that this is what the sword will look like when we begin the game than it is that they're going to swap out the model for the actual release.

Even if the sword's golden wing sculpt from the Compilation is under that box with the rivets (I think it is), hian is correct that this still marks a retcon from the very end of Crisis Core when Cloud was seen riding that train toward the first bombing mission of the original game without anything concealing the golden sculpt on the sword. There wouldn't be any modifications taking place during that train ride, so we're looking at a small, but tangible retcon of something from the Compilation.

Of course, the sword still bears the rest of the additions to its design from the Compilation, so it isn't retconning the look of the sword in the Compilation. It just seems to be combining it with the original design in a more seamless way than before.

What hian is suggesting is that we can expect a lot of things like that.

Tasha said:
I was afraid someone would say that eventually, but I'm not surprised. In the end, the Remake is going to be a massive drop in fianance, and a major disappointment. It's a major disappointment to me already and it isn't even out yet. So, I'll just have to avoid it.
I thought western comic books had the only fandom where people hated everything about something they may enjoy before they barely know anything about it. :monster:
 
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