Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

[jazzflower92]

I don't really understand why so many fans want to give other characters Cetra ancestry. Aerith is the last remaining Cetra, and even she is only part-Cetra. Giving Cetra ancestry to others would only diminish her. In Reeve's case, it would make his actions (spying and kidnapping for Shinra) even more reprehensible.

Because having the race go extinct with her death is really too much of a downer.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

We must agree to disagree about that.

 

[FFShinra]

I'd rather Reeve was just a brilliant engineer who made a robot cat with a robot moogle to ride on and that his level of control is only in general orders and monitoring, the specific actions of Cait Sith are autonomous.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

After replaying FFVII earlier this year, I was taken aback by just how badly timed Cait Sith's return is. I mean, Sephiroth shows up, Cloud gives the Black Materia away and starts attacking Aerith, and then Cait Sith comes in like a goddamn Looney Tune. "Oops! Looks like I came at a bad time *hee-yuk.*"

Yeah, that was kind of odd timing on his part. I'm sure the remake will address that, though.

"Episode: Shin-Ra" of "On the Way to A Smile" already did that. Reeve was operating both simultaneously, saving Tseng's life with No. 2 while No. 1 was in the temple.

And it might be a cool idea to have #2's personality be a bit different than #1's, to better differentiate them, show that they're not all the same, and help us feel a bit of loss when #1 gets crushed. He did say that there was only one him, after all. The remake should show that individuality, I think.

Like ForceStealer mentioned, Cait Sith's unnecessarily melodramatic death is deliberately constructed that way because we haven't lost anything. It's meant to contrast with the unexpected very real loss we experience shortly afterwards.

That masterful strike to the player's heart via the loss of Aerith should not be tampered with.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I don't really understand why so many fans want to give other characters Cetra ancestry. Aerith is the last remaining Cetra, and even she is only part-Cetra. Giving Cetra ancestry to others would only diminish her. In Reeve's case, it would make his actions (spying and kidnapping for Shinra) even more reprehensible.

Because Aerith being the "Last Cetra" makes no sense compared to how real life genetics works. You only get a "last of the x" situation usually if someone is going out and deliberately killing all those kinds of things on purpose. At least with the kind of timeframe we are talking about with the Cetra's disappearance. What is a lot more common is for small people groups to "die out" by intermarrying with other larger people groups to the point that what made the small people group different is diluted throughout the larger people group. Which is almost exactly what Ilfana describes as happening several thousand years before the game starts.

So I think it "feels" more real to a lot of players if at least some people in the game to have Cetra heritage. Because that is what we should see in real life.

Granted... applying real life science anything to FFVII isn't what we're supposed to do, but it's really hard not to in this case when Jenova's influence being passed down to descendants via genetics is already a thing. The less I have to forget how the real life versions of the terms they use work, the easier is it to swallow the plot.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I'm not sure I believe it's because they're all scientifically minded and want FFVII to be more biologically realistic. I suspect a lot of them just think it would be cool.

 

[jazzflower92]

I'm not sure I believe it's because they're all scientifically minded and want FFVII to be more biologically realistic. I suspect a lot of them just think it would be cool.

On the other hand, you can't always use rule of cool when it comes to writing, especially it seems the game glosses over the fact that the Cetra became extinct with Aerith dying.

 

[Ite]

I’m not sure the game glosses it over, just doesn’t dwell on it. A major plot point involves what Aeris left unfinished and how the rest of the party couldn’t know what she was trying to do. Without the Ancients, hope seems lost. It’s only when returning to the city with Bugenhagen do they even begin to understand.

It wouldn’t be unreasonable to assume that Bugenhagen has Cetra heritage, as he can make out what the voices in the Forgotten City are trying to communicate. Of course, it could just be that he’s old and wizened and spends his days listening to the Planet in his orrery. Either way, it may be interesting to see his connection to the Planet expanded.

 

[jazzflower92]

I’m not sure the game glosses it over, just doesn’t dwell on it. A major plot point involves what Aeris left unfinished and how the rest of the party couldn’t know what she was trying to do. Without the Ancients, hope seems lost. It’s only when returning to the city with Bugenhagen do they even begin to understand.

It wouldn’t be unreasonable to assume that Bugenhagen has Cetra heritage, as he can make out what the voices in the Forgotten City are trying to communicate. Of course, it could just be that he’s old and wizened and spends his days listening to the Planet in his orrery. Either way, it may be interesting to see his connection to the Planet expanded.

It would be interesting if they made him part Cetra. And that is true. It doesn't dwell on it, but when you think about it. That's pretty grim to think about the extinction of a whole race.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Well, if you look at it another way, every human on the planet is "part Cetra". The Cetra weren't biologically distinct from other humans. They had a different culture and cultivated the ability to speak with the Planet. Their nomadic way of life appears to have been integral to this skill. Just as, when languages die out, there's always one last speaker who takes that living language with them when they die, so Aerith was the last person to be raised by a mother who was culturally Cetra. Theoretically it ought to be possible for any human being to do what Aerith does, but all the other humans have been deafened by their socialisation and have even forgotten than the Planet is a living organism. You're not going to listen if you don't think there's anything to hear.

 

[Clement Rage]

I don't think every strange ability needs to be due to Cetra blood, the likes of dragons and Tonberries can cast magic or have unique abilities without it.

Maybe Reeve's just a one in a million person, the way Weiss can have near Jenova level superpowers without Jenova infusions.

Re Cetra blood, that's easy enough to reconcile- Aeris is the last one with a bloodline thick enough to hear the Planet without training. Bugenhagen can build a special machine to do it.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

"Episode: Shin-Ra" of "On the Way to A Smile" already did that. Reeve was operating both simultaneously, saving Tseng's life with No. 2 while No. 1 was in the temple.



Like ForceStealer mentioned, Cait Sith's unnecessarily melodramatic death is deliberately constructed that way because we haven't lost anything. It's meant to contrast with the unexpected very real loss we experience shortly afterwards.

That masterful strike to the player's heart via the loss of Aerith should not be tampered with.

I'm probably just nitpicking here, but even if Cait Sith came in when everything seems fine just before Sephiroth shows up I'd be happy and I think it would still achieve what they were going for. It's the fact that he reappears in a very goony fashion right as Cloud beats Aerith that bugs me; it feels like it's trying to add comedy to what's been Cloud's biggest episode yet.

 

[Ite]

Mechanically, Aeris is no different from Barret or Yuffie or (shit) Cait Sith. For me that’s one of FF7’s strengths. Unlike D&D: where elves/dwarves/humans get different benefits, there doesn’t seem to be anything really to differentiate (half) Cetra from humans... unless you’re talking about non-combat cutscenes (Aeris “hearing” the temple of the Ancients etc.)

 

[ForceStealer]

So this character profile for Barret on the FF7 Remake site is interesting:

The leader of an independent Avalanche cell in Midgar, Barret was disavowed by the old guard for his extreme methods that attracted too much attention. He subsequently came to Midgar, where he resolved to continue to pursue his vendetta against Shinra with a small but trusted group of followers. When not fighting against the corporation, he and his comrades serve in the neighborhood watch and keep the people safe─including his daughter Marlene, who he dotes on as a loving father.

Booted from other AVALANCHE cells? That's new. Not something I'm opposed to, though, that sounds like it could be pretty interesting. As we've discussed before, the original game did say/strongly imply in Cosmo Canyon that Barret's AVALANCHE is not the first, but it definitely didn't say anything about other currently active cells, or that Barret was ever a part of them. Iiiiiiinteresting.

People will be inclined to mention Before Crisis of course, but I find it hard to believe that that Avalanche would find Barret extreme. They tried and did do things that were worse than what he does. This seems like a new bit of world-building to me. Encountering other active cells in later parts outside of Midgar, perhaps?

 

[Roger]

It might displace the completely independent faction at Fort Condor.

 

[ForceStealer]

Oo, that's a fun idea.

 

[Clement Rage]

Fuhito: Hey, your attacks are more effective than mine, that's against AVALANCHE principles!

 

[Rydeen]

I like that whole neighborhood watch thing. I can totally see Barret as a Midgar equivalent to one of NYC's Guardian Angels, standing nobly yet threateningly in a train car as if to say "try something, I dare you."

 

[FFShinra]

I think the Barret thing goes back to something we discussed here a few months ago that there are other political groups against the Shinra but who may either have different tactics or ideology. Seems like Greater Avalanche fits the first, like Greenpeace vs Sea Shepherds.

I shall pay attention to this with great interest....

 

[Tetsujin]

Based on that bit and the fact that President Shinra gets briefed on Avalanche like he never heard of them before reinforces my belief that they'll play fast and loose with including Compilation material rather considering anything hard canon.

 

[Ite]

This news actually puts a lot of my fears to rest! What an interesting way to deepen Barret's story, and the world, and add extra content/context that feels relevant. @Roger is bang-on imo there's totally gonna be a cell at Fort Condor, maybe the Gold Saucer, and probably Wutai -- hmmm... did they win? (I just wanna know why Wutai is wicked.)

It looks like they are taking Barret's civilian casualties really seriously. I wonder if Barret will be shown in a different light this time around - or if new audiences will see him in a different way. I mean sure he's on the neighbourhood watch but he's a war criminal. A result of a more realistic style/the times I reckon.

edit: Wait I just realized that Barret's "extreme methods" were bad because they "attracted too much attention."

Spoiler: A cheeky bit of foreshadowing

also does that mean they don't actually care about the civilians, only about how much they're gonna poke the bear? Did AVALANCHE... not have a cell in Midgar before Barret left?

 

[ForceStealer]

Especially if those other cells are not big fans of Barret, could make for some interesting character interactions, particularly at Fort Condor. The denizens of the Fort want to protect the reactor in order to protect the Condor, while Barret would more likely be inclined to just blow the reactor up, Condors be damned. After all, the reactor is hurting the planet. With different members of your team falling on different points of that spectrum.

I would say that other hypothetical cells shouldn't be outright hostile to Barret, though, because that would lessen the impact of how much the people of North Corel hate him. However, having people that fundamentally agree with him, but have a difference of opinion with him in regards of how to go about it could be really enjoyable and interesting. And, I suppose with Barret preaching his Avalanche gospel and arguing his position all along the way, but approaching and in Corel he clams up as in the original, it could still feel distinct.

Really, anything that involves more focus on Barret's character is a-okay by me.

 

[Ite]

Totally. I think one of the reasons this feels like a good change is because it's not just padding out the Midgar section, you can thread it through so much of the original game that is dying for more relevance like Fort Condor and Wutai. It feels like a decision not only made for this game, but for the whole series, which gives me a lot of confidence in the writing (well, a lot more than I had XD)

 

[Alex Strife]

Am I the only one who doesn't necessarily think "the old guard" implies other Avalanche cells?

I kind of get the feeling he used to fight Shinra somewhere else (Corel, I guess?) with a group under a different name. They didn't like his ways. So he packed up and went to Midgar.

The only thing that I feel this seems to imply quite clearly is that, wherever Barret came from, he took some people with him... making it plausible those people could actually be Jessie, Biggs and Wedge.

 

[Ite]

What if they're talking about Barret drawing attention to Corel....

Perhaps you're right, Alex Strife, but why would they use the phrase "an independent AVALANCHE cell" when they could have just said "The leader of AVALANCHE"?