How Big is Midgar?

[LicoriceAllsorts]

A simple question to which I am guessing there is no simple answer... although I ought to be able to work it out, now that I think about it, by looking at the ratio of height above ground to width of plate.

But anyway, is there some word of God on how big across Midgar is? Diameter? Circumference? How long it would take to walk from one side of the plate to the other?

Thanks!

 

[Akai Hana]

It is as big as Tokyo city. I remember reading about this before. Can't remember where. I think it's from ultimania, magazine or interviews.. I'm not sure.

Edit; someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

You're correct. It was envisioned being at least large enough for all 23 wards of Tokyo to fit within.

Of course, it was also officially described as the plate being 50 meters/164 feet above the ground level of the slums, which is obviously ridiculous. I can launch a stream of piss that far (not really, but it's a very short distance).

 

[Akai Hana]

I know I'm not imagining it! Thank Tres.

23 wards= 622 km2 (240.1 sq mi)..

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

ありえないよ！

When it was just big pixels on a not-to-scale map I could maybe stretch my imagination to believe it's as big as Tokyo. But - seriously...? Anyway the numbers just don't add up. I'm going to get out my ruler and do some crude measuring.

Is Itabashi even a part of Tokyo proper? The town I live in is twinned with Itabashi and it has its own mayor and everything. Given that my town is part of the Greater Toronto Area, being twinned with Itabashi is a good fit; but nobody would include Burlington in a measure of how big the city of Toronto is.

 

[Strangelove]

魔法使いの仕業だった！

I think the special wards of Tokyo (think but don't know for sure) act more like towns/cities of their own. The wards fall under the Tokyo metropolis, rather than Tokyo the city (which used to exist before the city of Tokyo and the prefecture of Tokyo merged to form the Tokyo metropolis; so modern day Tokyo is not so much a city as it is a collection of wards that form the metropolis). I'm going to stop here because I don't get these things.


I think when they were making these things they didn't really have concrete numbers and scales in mind, and as they've added to the story they've just kind of winged it.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Yes, no wonder "wings" is the theme of the compilation.

Tokyo's like London, isn't it? A collection of villages that grew into one huge metropolis. I can believe that Midgar might be as big as the City. Maybe a bit bigger.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Tokyo's like London, isn't it? A collection of villages that grew into one huge metropolis.

Exactly like Midgar itself/the eight towns it used to be, eh? Anywho, yeah, just to look at it, it seems ... doubtful ... that Midgar would actually be as big as the entire Tokyo metropolitan area. Makes the scale of Deepground even more lol too.

That would sure make the Shin-Ra building fucking huge, though.

 

[Shademp]

Artistic license. One size may be stated, but the artist rendering may be deemed as simply a "representation"; a theater stage piece to create a background for the actors, not as a statement of canon looks and sizes.

Well, that's how I like to look at Midgar.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

As big as the plot demands?

 

[Shademp]

As big as the plot demands?

As big as the plot demands and as big as the directors allow it to be.

They probably follow general guidelines though.

 

[Akai Hana]

So Shinra building is as large as shinjuku+bunkyuu+toshima-ku add together? Thats not make any sense..

I asked my dad and he said

Tokyo=Small town+Small town.. And he also said "Go read wikipedia"..

Damn.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Artistic license. One size may be stated, but the artist rendering may be deemed as simply a "representation"; a theater stage piece to create a background for the actors, not as a statement of canon looks and sizes.

Well, that's how I like to look at Midgar.

I don't like to look at things that way when I'm supposed to be viewing them through a magical window.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Artistic license. One size may be stated, but the artist rendering may be deemed as simply a "representation"; a theater stage piece to create a background for the actors, not as a statement of canon looks and sizes.

Well, that's how I like to look at Midgar.

I know what you mean, but when it's right there staring you in the face in ACC in all its virtually real glory, it's hard to pretend that it's actually 10 times bigger than they made it look.

 

[Shademp]

The "50 meter pillar" and "Tokyo size" thing is something that originates from pre-release (pre-1997) sources, correct?

It could be that these scales are pre-production concepts which then turned obsolete when the final artist renderings were made. These statements have then survived into Ultimania books, as the old documents are taken from Shinra's Square's archives without much question. The official size of Midgar should be retconned, but I doubt that anybody in Square will ever bother with this.


Random: The "50 meter" statement can also be found as an unused line by Jessie.

「魔晄都市ミッドガルは
　地上から約５０Ｍの高さに
　建設された人工都市なの」

The Mako city Midgar is a man-made
city constructed 50 meters
above the planet’s surface.

- Source

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The "size of Tokyo" thing is concept material, yes, but Jessie's "50 meters" comment is in all versions of the game:

----
Jessie
Hey, Cloud. You want to look at this with me?
It's a map of the Midgar Rail System. Let's look at it together. I'll explain it to you.
I like this kinda stuff. Bombs and monitors... you know, flashy stuff.
Okay, it's about to start.
This is a complete model of the city of Midgar.
It's about a 1/10000 scale.
The top plate is about 50 meters above ground.
----

 

[Shademp]

^This is true. I forgot to check the used script, silly me.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

If only 50 meters wasn't such a ridiculous distance.... that's how many stories (buildiing floor)?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Is 50 meters too low, do you think?

Anyhoo, I did some measuring with my trusty ruler using the longshot image of Midgar from ACC. If the plate is 50 meters off the ground, then its diameter is 650 m, and its circumference is 2,041 meters according to the online geometry calculator I used because I know nothing about math. [I'd like to add (geddit) that this is just about the first time I've had to calculate the circumference of a circle since leaving school. Just thought I'd mention that.]

Anyway, a Midgar which is only about a mile around seems as ridiculously small as a Midgar the size of Tokyo seems ridiculously big. Additionally we have to remember that roughly half the plate is uninhabited (the outer half looks like the flaps on an airplane's wings or something).

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^^Wait, I think we did this on another thread way back when... Here it is... http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5969&page=4

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Fifty meters is way too short. That's less than half the distance of almost every MLB baseball field from home plate to any point on the fence in the outfield.

 

[Strangelove]

you're gonna have to explain that without using sports because i have no idea what that looks like

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

For the hito uncultured among us, that's 1/13 the height of the Eiffel Tower.

 

[Ryushikaze]

The "size of Tokyo" thing is concept material, yes, but Jessie's "50 meters" comment is in all versions of the game:

----
Jessie
Hey, Cloud. You want to look at this with me?
It's a map of the Midgar Rail System. Let's look at it together. I'll explain it to you.
I like this kinda stuff. Bombs and monitors... you know, flashy stuff.
Okay, it's about to start.
This is a complete model of the city of Midgar.
It's about a 1/10000 scale.
The top plate is about 50 meters above ground.
----

They've GOT to mean the bottom of the plate, and even then, 50 meters is a conservative estimate.

 

[Clement Rage]

Maybe that's the point. There's virtually no space underground, hence all the comments about polluted air and stuffiness. Unless Aeris' church physically doesn't fit in it,(that's the tallest building I remember) a low ceiling is fine.

Honestly, though, of course Midgar would be appear smaller than it is. It would take a lot of animation to create an establishing shot of a proper major city, which would pretty much be a waste of time and money for just one shot.