How far do you think Part 2 will go?

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream
#1
With Part 1 coming out only six months from now - still seems like an eternity, though - I was thinking about how far they'll go in the overall FFVII story in Part 2. Given how massive they've made Midgar alone, I could see them going as far as Junon and the Cargo Ship and starting Part 3 with the arrival in Costa Del Sol. Seems like there are plenty of things that we would do in Junon, especially if we get to control the other party members during the group's infiltration of the city and actually get to see how they all sneak aboard the ship instead of Cloud just finding them already there like in the original. Maybe seeing wanted posters of Yuffie in Kalm and other villages along the way before you actually meet her in one of the forests, teasing her appearance before you actually see her. Making the trip across the swamp into an actual minigame where you have to constantly evade the Zolom, and if it catches up to you, hit it enough times to slow it down so you can get moving again - but not be able to actually kill it at this time, to reinforce Sephiroth's strength when you find the dead one later. And making the Mythril Mines a lot bigger, with more passages to explore and items to find. What do you guys think?
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
#2
I don’t think the content of Kalm to the Cargo ship can or should be expanded as much like the Midgar section of the game has been. In your scenario how many installments are you expecting the Remake to be? Because with your proposal’s pace it would definitely take more than three parts, maybe even more than five.

Anyways, I think the second installment (presuming the Remake will be three parts) would best work as going up to the summoning of Meteor and the awakening of the WEAPONs. As stated by others in past threads, it’s a good stopping point narratively, as well as in terms of gameplay transition. The player would actually feel the gameplay consequences of losing Aerith’s character unit from the party, and the third game can open with the new mode of transportation with the Highwind. Also the third and final installment beginning post-Meteor summon can allow for SE to add more additional content showing how the planet’s populace is affected by a big harbinger of doom hanging in the sky, not a as dramatic a change as FFVI World of Ruin, but more significant than what the OG FFVII was able to do.
 

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream
#4
I can see that, but that's also a lot of world to cover, and it would probably take an extreme amount of space and system resources to hold content for such a large section of the game given how detailed they're making everything. Every town and location is likely to have a lot of things for us to do, and that means more space is required to store all the data associated with it. Not to mention that I don't think the overworld is going to be as comparatively empty as FFXV's was. I think they want to make the world feel like a real, lived-in place, and that means filling the overworld with lots of things to do and find as well, and that also takes up space. Two blurays may not be enough to cover as much ground as you guys think, at that scale. And remember, they're adding to the story, so it won't be just what we know from the original. There may be more story in between Kalm and the Cargo Ship than we think, depending on what they decide. But I guess we'll find out one way or another. In my scenario, I think it would come to about four or five installments or so, but that's just a guess - Midgar, Kalm->Cargo Ship (when Cloud and co. finally see Sephiroth themselves), Costa Del Sol->Forgotten Capital or Sephiroth getting the Black Materia, and Icicle Inn or Junon awakening->North Crater and ending.
 
AKA
Mr. Ite
#5
If it’s for PS5 then it should absolutely go from Kalm to the Whirlwind Maze. There’s enough plot and side-content to fill “2 Blu-Rays” with little need for expansion. Part 3 Finale would use the assets from Part 2, add a big ass Meteor in the sky, and give the NPCs new dialogue.

Also FF7’s three-act structure really fits a trilogy.
 

Roger

Novice DM
AKA
Minato
#6
Nibelheim flashback to real Nibelheim is the only thing that makes sense to me. Nanaki and Barret don't have enough to do in this part unless you go as far as Cosmo Canyon and they'll need to create Nibelheim for the flashback anyway and it makes for a decent bookend. After Nibelheim you get the tiny bronco and with it access to Wutai Continent, Mideel Continent and Northern Continent. If they go that far they'll have to turn Part 2 into a corridor, or cut many areas.
 

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream
#7
Ite, SE has said they don't want to give us a 1:1 recreation of the original, so things are definitely going to be expanded. And I just wonder how you fit all the resources for an entire game world of that size as well as all the content within it into just two blurays given the level of detail they're giving us and the number of towns and locations involved, all of which are going to be made into fully fleshed-out living places with lots of activities, dialogue, and scenes. Not on the scale of Midgar, to be sure, but still sizeable nonetheless. And probably fully explorable, too. Not to mention all the wilderness areas outside the towns which are likely to have hidden dungeons and encounters and other things for us to find. It's a huge amount of content altogether and all the resources needed to give us that content. That's going to take an immense amount of space and I'm not sure two blurays alone would suffice.
 
AKA
Mr. Ite
#8
@Roger but that means that Part 3 would let you backtrack through all of Part 2's worldspace as well, no? And they'd need to put new stuff in all those areas, so... at that point you're just making an extra game's worth of content when you don't have to.

@Jairus All I know is that if it's more than 3 parts, people are going to get pissed. If it's more than 5 parts, people will stop buying it.
 

Roger

Novice DM
AKA
Minato
#9
@Roger but that means that Part 3 would let you backtrack through all of Part 2's worldspace as well, no? And they'd need to put new stuff in all those areas, so... at that point you're just making an extra game's worth of content when you don't have to.
They do have to. If the first installment is a complete full length game and the rest of FFVII's world measures up to Midgar in size and scope despite this, then they'll have to make quite a few a more then three games worth of content. It's just a question of whether the many many years this will take will see no new releases from that development team in that time. Which does not seem realistic.
 

FFShinra

Sharp Shinra Shill
#10
I'm with the OP on this. I think Part 2 ends at the Cargo Ship (I think Junon is expanded upon both as a place and as a scenario, as is the Kalm flashback, and also quests along the way, both extant and new). I think Part 3 starts in Costa Del Sol and ends with the temple of the ancients. Part 4 Would be about the search for Aerith (also expanded upon) and end at the Northern Crater. Part 5 Begins in Junon again and ends with the Key to the Ancients being put in place. Part 6 starts with Diamond Weapon and ends with Hojo (we are, after all, returning to Midgar). Part 7 is endgame.
 

ChipNoir

Internet Ghost
AKA
Mister Spooks.
#11
Ever since the Midgar announcement, Vyzz's predictions have become semented as the defacto idea to me. It's going to end Empire Strikes Back style with everything going to hell in North Crater.

As a side note I actually think they may prioritize Nibelhiem to make it an independent episode as a hold-over between part one and part two, largely operating on the exact same build as part one, and released in late 2021, with part two heading out in 2023.
 

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream
#12
Regardless of how many parts it turns out to be, I don't think SE should commit to a specific number. They need to have the freedom to adjust it as necessary to best fit the overall story and gameplay without being constrained by a confirmed episode count that might turn out to not work best for the series as a whole as they get further into the project.
 

Odysseus

Pro Adventurer
#13
Unless they somehow padded the ever loving fuck out of kalm-to-cargo-ship, there is absolutely no way that's all part 2 would cover. I don't think people remember how short that section of the game actually is. It's one small town (+flash back), a barn, a cave, and then Junon. Junon is a big area, but its no Midgar, and if they did have it end there then half the game would just be Cloud by himself (unless they have the whole party infiltrate together I guess.) No, I'm almost Certain Part 2 will at least get to Nibleheim, if not to the lost city or even North Crater. I'm still feeling 3 parts on this remake project, 4 at most, but I guess time will tell.
 

Tetsujin

Ready for the mosh pit, shaka brah
AKA
Tets
#14
It has to go further than that, otherwise we're looking at way too many games. I think it's either gonna be 3 or 4 parts, no more no less.

If it's three, I think part 2 ends at the Forgotten Capital. That's just the most logical choice to end it imo.
 

Jairus

Author of FFVII: Lifestream
#15
People didn't think they could make Midgar a game all by itself, but they did. So anything's possible, I guess. But I don't think it'll be more than 5 parts at most. Remember, towns aren't going to be just a few screens anymore. Even Kalm will probably have streets and alleys to explore (like we saw in DoC), and Junon was the second biggest city in the world, so think of Midgar in the remake, just not quite as big. All kinds of things could be added to it beyond just the simple infiltration, especially with the ability to shift between Cloud and the rest of the crew. You forgot Fort Condor and Yuffie, too, Ody. And the Mythril Mines could be made a lot bigger, with multiple levels even. Not to mention the other villages and places we may find along the way - the guy at Fort Condor mentions that they sent their families to another village, so that shows that there are likely more settlements than what the original game showed us. Following a trail of rumors and murders, all done by a man in a black cape, across the continent in settlement after settlement, each one leading the group closer to Junon, and maybe sightings of a certain ninja thief somewhere ahead of the group as well until a forest ambush. Just some ideas, but I guess we'll see how it turns out.
 
#17
Oh, of course they can expand things! But the key to the FFVII Remake is balance.

Balance between old and new, that is. If you have a game that goes from Kalm to Junon and most of the content is new, that's a way to alienate old players. And they won't want to do that. That is why I don't think they'll go until Junon / Cargo ship.

Reasonably speaking? It's hard to say because narrative says one thing and technical needs say another thing.

Narratively, it would have to be one of these:

- After Temple of the Ancients
- End of Disk 1
- Meteor Summon.

But somehow, I can't imagine Square being able to do a game THAT large. So logistically, maybe Nibelheim...?

I think maybe Temple of the Ancients is the best balance. It fits the idea of an endgame dungeon very well, too.
 
#18
Ever since the Midgar announcement, Vyzz's predictions have become semented as the defacto idea to me. It's going to end Empire Strikes Back style with everything going to hell in North Crater.

As a side note I actually think they may prioritize Nibelhiem to make it an independent episode as a hold-over between part one and part two, largely operating on the exact same build as part one, and released in late 2021, with part two heading out in 2023.
So the Nibelheim flashback would be analogous to like a Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes-esque game then?

Anyways, I still think the Remake will be three parts total and that Meteor Summon/Weapons awakening is the best ending point for a part 2 in that scenario.

However, if the Remake does end up being four parts (which I still think is unlikely), I think in that scenario part 2 should end around the arrival in Nibelheim and/or the Rocket Town scenario. Depending how they’ll handle Red XIII joining late game in the first installment, I don’t know if Cid should also join at the end of part 2 or the beginning of part 3. Either way, in a four part scenario, I think ending before the Tiny Bronco opens up the overworld transportation is a good idea. As for part 3 in a four part scenario it could also end at Meteor Summon, or maybe make the escape from Junon the “final dungeon” of part 3.
 
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Roger

Novice DM
AKA
Minato
#19
Unless they somehow padded the ever loving fuck out of kalm-to-cargo-ship, there is absolutely no way that's all part 2 would cover. I don't think people remember how short that section of the game actually is. It's one small town (+flash back), a barn, a cave, and then Junon.
It's the two town of Kalm and Nibelheim, the mountain at Nibelheim, the open grassplains, the farm, the swamplands of the Midgar Zolom,the caves, the forests where you encounter Yuffie, Fort Condor and then the city of Junon, the only other real city in the gameworld.
 
#20
I'm with the OP on this. I think Part 2 ends at the Cargo Ship (I think Junon is expanded upon both as a place and as a scenario, as is the Kalm flashback, and also quests along the way, both extant and new). I think Part 3 starts in Costa Del Sol and ends with the temple of the ancients. Part 4 Would be about the search for Aerith (also expanded upon) and end at the Northern Crater. Part 5 Begins in Junon again and ends with the Key to the Ancients being put in place. Part 6 starts with Diamond Weapon and ends with Hojo (we are, after all, returning to Midgar). Part 7 is endgame.
Bloody hell, 7 parts :faint:
 

NibelFire

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
Blaze
#21
I also considered the Forgotten City as a cutoff point as well, but honestly, that sinking feeling just won't hit home as hard when you have the down time in between versus if you just keep going. A splitting point at the Meteor drop is a good alternative, but that just creates so much disparity in length between part two and the rest, and we have the OG's disc imbalance issue again. EDIT: I was thinking of the Meteor impact instead of the summoning for some reason, which is not the same. Ignore that part, it's late here lol. :wacky:

Making Whirlwind Maze the final dungeon is the ideal choice imo, ending with the epic awakening of the Sapphire Weapon, and save full control of the Highwind for the finale as well.


Ever since the Midgar announcement, Vyzz's predictions have become semented as the defacto idea to me. It's going to end Empire Strikes Back style with everything going to hell in North Crater.

As a side note I actually think they may prioritize Nibelhiem to make it an independent episode as a hold-over between part one and part two, largely operating on the exact same build as part one, and released in late 2021, with part two heading out in 2023.
I would rather hold out for a big part than small episodic chunks. Not a fan of FFXV style of smaller DLCs. I think the whole purpose of making multiple parts is to avoid another FFXV situation anyway.
 
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#22
A lot will depend when they introduce Nanaki. Whether he's introduced in Part 1 or Part 2, they will HAVE to include Cosmo Canyon in Part 2.....right? Surely they wouldn't have a character whos story isn't explained until Part 3?!
 

Freki

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
Freki_M
#23
A lot will depend when they introduce Nanaki. Whether he's introduced in Part 1 or Part 2, they will HAVE to include Cosmo Canyon in Part 2.....right? Surely they wouldn't have a character whos story isn't explained until Part 3?!
They kinda have to introduce Red XIII in part one, his name, tattoo, backstory, and scar all came from his time being a labrat with Shin-ra and getting saved by AVALANCHE.

As far as how long part 2 is going to be, I'd assume the towns after Midgar are a lot less demanding than Midgar itself, and am gonna jump on the Nibelheim bandwagon, it just seems like the only solid ending point besides the Temple of the Ancients.
 
#24
I can see that, but that's also a lot of world to cover, and it would probably take an extreme amount of space and system resources to hold content for such a large section of the game given how detailed they're making everything. Every town and location is likely to have a lot of things for us to do, and that means more space is required to store all the data associated with it. Not to mention that I don't think the overworld is going to be as comparatively empty as FFXV's was. I think they want to make the world feel like a real, lived-in place, and that means filling the overworld with lots of things to do and find as well, and that also takes up space. Two blurays may not be enough to cover as much ground as you guys think, at that scale.
Your main consumption comes from texturing and FMV. With as good as the graphics engine is they probably won't have to do a ton of FMV, and if they use procedural generation for the texturing (which many next gen games are likely to do) then the space won't be so bad. Star Citizen is only using around 100GB and it's mapped an entire solar system in space.

https://www.polygon.com/2015/3/12/8198615/star-citizens-client-will-be-a-100gb-download

A lot of advances have been made as far as texturing and texture compression go.

Activities, dialogue and that kind of stuff takes up very little space by comparison.

I don't see the second episode ending in Junon. I think it'll likely be some point after Aeris at the Forgotten City. I also think we'll see a total of 3 episodes. No more than four. The team isn't getting any younger, and spreading this out too long means they won't get to finish it together.
 
#25
A lot will depend when they introduce Nanaki. Whether he's introduced in Part 1 or Part 2, they will HAVE to include Cosmo Canyon in Part 2.....right? Surely they wouldn't have a character whos story isn't explained until Part 3?!
Have to think Nanaki's in part 1 since he's in Midgar in the original game. I think they're just keeping him a secret for now.
 
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