How to convince people that FF7 is still hip and totally not lame. (Split out of secrets discussion thrad)

[Cat Rage Room]

I mean, seriously though. When that secret was posted at first, I thought it was really weird because I see this place as a community of friends based off Final Fantasy VII. Granted, over time, the community aspect outshined everything else (which is great!),
but I always tried to keep that Final Fantasy focus as a core to unify everyone.

There are some great examples where people were interested in that (and some great members too), but by and large, very few people are interested in keeping that flame alive. The usual response to discussions on where to take the site next and actual actions to move it forward are usually headed by the same few go getters, and ignored entirely by the rest of the forum. I'm not saying this to make anyone feel bad, but them's facts.

So like, when people continually ignore efforts to get this place shining again in favor of petty bullshit, its like, wow. Sometimes I think I should hop back on Staff, at least as a consultant to get this place where it could be, but shit like this makes me think twice about it.

This isn't to anyone in particular, but its a general sentiment.

[font=Candara, Skia, Corbel, Trebuchet MS, Georgia, Tahoma, Geneva, Lucida, Lucida Grande, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]edit by Aaron: Split out of here. I couldn't find a clean break point so you may need to view the other thread for context, and some of the posts quote or refer to things I left in the other thread because they didn't have anything to do with improving the site.[/font]

 

[Ryushikaze]

is this directed at the dessies peeps or the bitchy ladies

The 'bitchy' ladies, because I don't think 412 is right, but I also don't think being snarky and sarcastic back is the right response.

because i think the message from the bitchy ladies is 'hey, if you want us to change something, then talk to us, don't assume everyone else will'.

I understand that. I agree with it. But I think you all are coming across as defensive, and that's not going to help things. It puts them back on the defensive and shit never gets resolved.

with the dessies peeps, telling someone what they work on is shit is pretty jerky, especially with all the time they put into it. if it's not your cup of tea, cool, but don't tell people all the detail and story they put into something is stupid. people work hard as hell on those things.

Yeah, the dessies one is doing it amazingly wrong if they want to address an issue and not troll.

In general, though, I'm asking you all- the whole forum, really- act in a good faith like you want people to act to you and don't automatically assume the worst.

Actually, to the anti-dessies poster, let me suggest to you that you could have phrased that like 100 different ways that didn't come off as needlessly antagonistic. And you should consider why what you said came off as it did.

 

[Octo]

I mean, seriously though. When that secret was posted at first, I thought it was really weird because I see this place as a community of friends based off Final Fantasy VII. Granted, over time, the community aspect outshined everything else (which is great!),
but I always tried to keep that Final Fantasy focus as a core to unify everyone.

There are some great examples where people were interested in that (and some great members too), but by and large, very few people are interested in keeping that flame alive. The usual response to discussions on where to take the site next and actual actions to move it forward are usually headed by the same few go getters, and ignored entirely by the rest of the forum. I'm not saying this to make anyone feel bad, but them's facts.

So like, when people continually ignore efforts to get this place shining again in favor of petty bullshit, its like, wow. Sometimes I think I should hop back on Staff, at least as a consultant to get this place where it could be, but shit like this makes me think twice about it.

This isn't to anyone in particular, but its a general sentiment.

Not that anyone is obligated to or that I like jerkin' myself off, but the fact that nobody really acknowledged this post is depressing. It's pretty telling, actually.

I don't think this is an either/or situation here. Nobody is favouring petty BS over the site, its just that this shit happens on the best of forums, and unfortunately for us not much is really happening with regards to FF.

To be honest, I think most of us feel like the glory days of FF are well over. So its kind of hard to get enthused.

Plus, we do have some magnificent people contributing here (I'm not going to list them because they know who they are and I'm bound to miss someone out) and we do have translations and other projects under way that nobody else is doing (just that they take time) but for the people who don't have a particular skill, there isn't much we can offer.

Back in the good ol' (bad ol') days of ACF there was something to get juiced up over....and now its kind of ehhh. Not that people aren't interested in the new FF's (though I'm not!) but even their enthusiasm is underpinned by a degree of cynicism...which is basically SE's doing

So I dunno, the only thing I can really think of is that maybe we need to advertise more, gather new members and stuff. Tbh I have no idea how much traffic this site gets compared with other FF sites, but I feel we should be getting more - given that so many translations and articles that get quoted all over the web came from our members.

So yeah, sorry to be a downer and everything, but that's how I see it. The main draw of TLS for me is the community aspect, I like to come here and have a laugh with like-minded people. The FF thing is probably only about 30% of that.

I don't know how many people feel the same way about it as I do, but at the end of the day it probably is down to the go-getters such as yourself and the others you mentioned to 'be the change' 'if you build it, they will come' and all that. I think waiting on the memberbase to spring into action is a little like being on a night out and trying to get a bunch of drunk people to move on to the next bar

 

[Sprites]

I mean, seriously though. When that secret was posted at first, I thought it was really weird because I see this place as a community of friends based off Final Fantasy VII. Granted, over time, the community aspect outshined everything else (which is great!),
but I always tried to keep that Final Fantasy focus as a core to unify everyone.

There are some great examples where people were interested in that (and some great members too), but by and large, very few people are interested in keeping that flame alive. The usual response to discussions on where to take the site next and actual actions to move it forward are usually headed by the same few go getters, and ignored entirely by the rest of the forum. I'm not saying this to make anyone feel bad, but them's facts.

So like, when people continually ignore efforts to get this place shining again in favor of petty bullshit, its like, wow. Sometimes I think I should hop back on Staff, at least as a consultant to get this place where it could be, but shit like this makes me think twice about it.

This isn't to anyone in particular, but its a general sentiment.
Not that anyone is obligated to or that I like jerkin' myself off, but the fact that nobody really acknowledged this post is depressing. It's pretty telling, actually.

No I know what you mean MOG a perfect example of it would be the recent FFVII play-through that's started up again, this should have been something for everyone to get involved in AGAIN and should have been something that was nostalgic AGAIN. I know people might say "but I've played it so many times now!!" but so have I and that's not stopping me. There's even talk about doing other play-throughs on other FF games afterwards.

The one thing I love about the play-through is we're all doing the same thing on that play-through but the way in which we all do it is unique, so it makes for a very interesting read when other members share their experiences and nostalgia about it. I've had some pretty amusing skype chats with people on the forums about my first impressions of the game. We've even got a TLS channel for it on twich.tv but when the skype chatting about it happens only a few of us join it ( I know there's different time zones and stuff but it's done in a way that it can accommodate plenty of people)

But the one thing that's really saddening about it( and this is the second time around I feel this has happened) is that what started as a massive thing where there was quite a few of us playing has dwindled down into singular numerical figures of those doing it. For me the first time it happened with the FFVII play-through when it pretty much just stopped, I became incredibly disheartened about taking part in community activities here because by the end very few people were posting at all or interested.

I feel this time around that for Flintlock who's worked really hard to get all the chapters up in good time and make up some pretty cool questions, that even though there are a few of us really enjoying the play-through and discussing it...his hard-work is going to waste because a lot of people just aren't taking part. I'm not trying to force people but it would be nice if people here would sit up and take notice a bit more and join in as part of the community here.

It is disappointing that when there is stuff like this that the whole community can become involved in and no-one wants to do it or notices it and it get's lost in everything else. Don't get me wrong I love posting in some of the other sections but I get really excited when I see posts that are something we can get involved in or to do with bringing more members here. The race between Flintlock and Prince Lex proved stuff like this has the potential to attract new members and keep the original goal of this site alive so why does it take a back-seat amongst everything else?

Maybe I went off topic there but I guess reading that post from you MOG brought some things to mind and better to get it off my chest now than say nothing at all about it.

 

[Octo]

Yeah, I should come clean about the playthrough, on the last one I got impatient when it fizzled out and basically went ahead and completed the game. So when the new one got started up my FFVII 'bar' was already full

Anyway, like Sprites said, such projects do have the ability to bring in new members. I still think it would be worth having TLS presence on Google+, even if thats just a copypasta of our latest frontpage stuff, I think theres great potential to reach a wider audience there.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

hey that was a pretty good mgs3 reference ;.;

whoever did that, I salute you

THE FURRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYY

i really want to replay ffix like a lot i could even direct the whole thing if people were interested since i am doing almost nothing besides making my superhero feferi costume and working ~4 hours on the weekdays i would love to host that sort of thing any takers

 

[Carlie]

I'll come clean too, I very rarely visit the front page, I haven't listened to all of the recordings I've done on the FFU commentaries and I thought about joining the FFVII Community playthrough because I have the time but I payed attention to other games and forgot about it. I would like to contribute more here, it's just that sometimes I get real lazy.

 

[Celes Chere]

streaming is a lot of fun
someone should stream FFVII and invite TLS members in so we could all chat while it's running
yes good
commentaries and stuff are nice but ehh I dont like participating in those because I often don't have anything to say and my computer lags like a son of a bitch when skype is opened. Streaming all the final fantasies actually would be cool if people want to do that. =w= or stream + skype chat works too

 

[Fangu]

More stream/chat is a great idea.

The Prince Lex/Flintlock race was streamed - Yop set up a page with both streams and the chat window to #tls, and it was a lot of fun. We gained a few new members from that event, Kassi being the most noticable.

Also during the Community Playthrough we've been on and off streaming simultaneously - haven't been a lot of that lately, but what we did was set up a page that shows the streams of whoever is streaming (we had 3 at the most, and lots more can be added) and the chat window. For this one we've also used Skype, or I guess mostly Skype, since it's kinda hard typing and playing at the same time. Which has been good fun.

Flint set up a thelifestream account on twitch.tv, the plan is that anyone who wants to stream something FF/VII related for TLS can use it.

I guess we could get better at PR when it comes to those events, since the Front page isn't checked that regularly. Making a thread is good PR, except that it hasn't really worked that well for both the race or the playthrough We might just need to be stricter on setting up a schedule for stuff - like for the drinking nights. Those are the last Friday of the month, no matter what else is happening, and. (And yes Flint, that does include printing "6 PM London time, 2 PM Toronto time" and not "5 UTC" Also I'm not saying the scheduling of the Community Playthrough has been bad - on the contrary your scheduling and planning has been excellent, let me just get that straight.) Minimum amount of info is always good PR. You need 3 pieces of information - what, where and when. That's all there is. "Community playthrough of VII". "Click here (to page with chat and streams, and a FAQ)." "Next event: Wednesday at (your time)." That's all the spoon feeding you can give, the rest is up to the people to actually participate.

Anyway events are the kind of thing we're hoping to give more room for the new Front page. Live events or "what's happening right NOW fresh click now woo" will come out on top of the page.

Regarding that project, the schedule says we're going live in July. I have to finish up the demo. The plan is to have a prototype for everyone to comment on by mid June. I hope as many as possible will join in with their critique then, it is very valiable and vital for the project to be successfull.

 

[Hisako]

I didn't really want to reply to MOG's post because I didn't really know what to say. I'm kind of out of ideas as to how to freshen things up on the site, and I don't really reach the level of commitment to the site that's really required to participate in the forum events we have every so often. I remember doing commentary for our TLS LPs for a couple of episodes, and it would be something I'd love to do again, but I don't find myself so enamoured with the idea that I would go out of my way to reschedule other things for the sake of that.

I do hang around these forums daily because I'm here for the community, for the familiar people that I've posted and chatted with over the years. As my favorite band sang once, "fondness makes the heart grow absent", or in my words, "my house is a fucking boring place sometimes, but it doesn't mean I won't hang around my home".

the most knowledge I have about it is that it's kind of like X-Men or something.

This is such a sharp observation it makes me bleed ;-;
Let's not mince words here, we're just talking about a fucking superhero RP here

And hey! I don't mind criticism, tbh. I think my own writing is kinda shit anyway ._.

But kinda like what kripey said, I'm just going to laugh at slandering if it ain't actually constructive/helpful or offers any reason as to what it's going on about.

 

[Fangu]

I want to share a secret, 'cept it's not a secret.

I feel ignored.

I've spent 50+ hours on the Front page project and whenever I mention it, I barely get any feedback. Not even a Thanks (except from Shademp and a couple of mods).

Since I'm a lady of my word I will finish what I set out to do. But I'm not some idiot who don't have anything better to do with my free time. So I say again, I hope there will be feedback when this Demo launches. If not, I consider people here to not give a shit and just want to continue their random derp instead of actually doing something VII productive.

There I said it.

 

[Celes Chere]

If not, I consider people here to not give a shit and just want to continue their random derp instead of actually doing something VII productive.

Well that approach certainly doesn't make me want to do anything.

 

[CK]

If not, I consider people here to not give a shit and just want to continue their random derp instead of actually doing something VII productive.

Well that sums up my attitude nicely. I honestly don't give a shit. I'm here for my friends and that's about it. I couldn't care less about anything else so sorry i'm ignoring all the work you do.

 

[Fangu]

Well at least I don't feel ignored anymore. Guess that's something.

 

[Celes Chere]

Well I just want to add that it's not that I don't want to do something VII productive, it's that I'm simply not interested in the current projects. I appreciate the work put into them but if I'm not interested in it, then... I'm not going to participate? I hope that doesn't sound mean, but I'm just not feeling it's something I'd enjoy participating in. And I want to enjoy something when I set out to go and do it. It's cool to want people to get involved but if they don't, don't get discouraged. Don't make it about who you feel like you have to impress... do it because you love FFVII and you're having a good time. Quality > Quantity, btw. If the quality of your work is great and you enjoyed yourself who cares if two or twenty people like it// want to participate in it? As long as some people are interested that's reason enough to keep going in my opinion.

I'm not interested in commentaries, I'm not interested in most of the front page stuff. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate the work others do, and respect what they enjoy to do. I mean we brought up Dessies here in this thread and as an example, the people in the RP spend lots of time on it. They'd still continue doing it even if no one read it or wanted to join in on it because THEY put effort into into it and they like to RP. Why should your front page work be any different?

Calling people derps for not wanting to participate in something is a low blow and sort of insulting, and not the best way to approach people especially to get them on board with what you're doing. It's great that you were honest but if you don't treat people with respect don't expect to get any in return... you know?

When it comes to FFVII I am interested in streaming/chatting and the group play through (even though I mostly just read the posts rather than post myself).

 

[Hisako]

When it comes to FFVII I am interested in streaming/chatting and the group play through (even though I mostly just read the posts rather than post myself).

do LP commentary moar plz :3

 

[Fangu]

Calling people derps for not wanting to participate in something is a low blow and sort of insulting, and not the best way to approach people especially to get them on board with what you're doing. It's great that you were honest but if you don't treat people with respect don't expect to get any in return... you know?

I know, you're right, and I'm sorry. Painting stuff in black and white is never a good thing, it's never just one thing or the other. People not commenting on the FP work doesn't mean they don't care (except 2D ), or that they don't care about any of the VII projects. I was just really frustrated and I felt totally taken for granted. It was frustration and emotions overload because stuff I've written on TLS lately has had like zero feedback of any form. Sometimes I wonder like... why am I even here. (I'm just attention whoring, I must admit. I see that now.)

I've written a lot of updates in the FP thread, which I have to admit is very boring and technical. It's no strange thing if that thread doesn't get attention. Also, I work hard on the stuff and then Mog starts yelling NOTH1NG IS HAPPEN1NG!!1 and that can feel kinda insulting But, I have barely nothing to show for yet so it's only fair I guess.

And with 'derp' I didn't mean 'idiocy' but more like 'randomness', but I see now I did call the lot of you morons and sorry for that, I don't mean you're all morons. (Just Yop.)

Ok so; when the Demo is released, I'll be very glad if as many as possible take the time to click on the link, have a 2 sec look and put down a line or two in a dedicated thread or even just write "like" or "don't like". And if you don't have time/ cba, then that's fine too, but then do be aware that the process will go on without your input. And we do want as much input as possible.

 

[Alex Strife]

I want to share a secret, 'cept it's not a secret.

I feel ignored.

I've spent 50+ hours on the Front page project and whenever I mention it, I barely get any feedback. Not even a Thanks (except from Shademp and a couple of mods).

Since I'm a lady of my word I will finish what I set out to do. But I'm not some idiot who don't have anything better to do with my free time. So I say again, I hope there will be feedback when this Demo launches. If not, I consider people here to not give a shit and just want to continue their random derp instead of actually doing something VII productive.

There I said it.

I'll give feedback from now on, seeing that it is going to be appreciated, then. I'm sorry but truth is if I don't usually give feedback with these things, it's because I do not consider my opinion is usually worthy...

Also, what is this demo thou speakest of? You got me curious now. I'm sure it's been mentioned elsewhere and I'm just being dumb, but...

 

[Fangu]

Also, what is this demo thou speakest of? You got me curious now. I'm sure it's been mentioned elsewhere and I'm just being dumb, but...

TLS moved servers a few months back, and Yop kept the old server (the one that gave us all the 400 errors) for testing purposes and random stuff. On this server we're setting up a new TLS Front page (the one you reach at thelifestream.com) to make it more dynamic and less blog-looking. The idea is to have it list current events, make it easier to find content (making it easier for Shademp to structure the material) and to integrate it slightly more with the forums (like list the 10 latest topics from the forums etc.)

The 'Demo' is basically our version of 'okay we're kinda done now, please have a look and tell us what is good and not'. When those suggestions have been taken into consideration, Yop is gonna upload the new stuff to the new server, and hopefully this will be in July 2012.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I really haven't given a shit about anything ff related since the ps2 was considered a next gen console.

 

[Tifabelle]

I think the thing with FFVII is that while we all still love it, it's a 15-year old game and nothing's happened in the compilation for a few years except for SE saying they're not doing a remake. It could be that it discourages any enthusiasm for VII-related projects. A lot of us have discussed nearly everything there is to discuss about VII already. XD

And the thing is we have a lot of other interests. There are other games and hobbies that have caught our attention -the RP for example or all the new Assassin's Creed stuff or what have you. What started the community was the love of FFVII, but what keeps the community together is all sorts of things.

Personally, I was doing the VII LP Commentaries, and I plan to do more when the videos are ready. Just because people don't participate or find interest in EVERY project doesn't mean people don't care about the site and shit. And maybe there are people that don't want to do any projects at all, and that's fine. It's not fair to expect every single person to be involved in a project. And even less fair to thing poorly of them because of it. And I know you retracted Fangu, but you're not the first person I've seen say something to that affect.

And I LOVE Celes' idea of doing live commentary on VII over skype while watching someone stream the game. And if at all possible, we can do that (or LP commentaries) with Dirge & Crisis Core as well. There was a suggestion for a DoC LP but nothing really ever came of it. I have the game and am one of the few to actually have enjoyed it, so I would be willing to play it (either record or as a live stream) for commentary purposes. It's a short game too - wouldn't even take that long if I had to record it.

As far as attracting newcomers to the site, I still feel that marketing a 15-year old game is going to limit how many new people come in. Yeah, people are out there playing it for the first time, but probably not many. I had voiced in the past that we shouldn't be afraid to jump into the other FF games. (we do a little, but not really.) Lure in the newer crowd that's playing XIII (or future games), while still focusing on VII stuff. How? idk, I'm just the idea man

Tres had done a lot of Dissidia stuff, and Ryu is doing the FFU commentary. And I think that really makes a difference because it's giving people something new to look at. (FFU is old, but a lot of people never saw it.)

Just an example - I don't think there's been anything on the front page about Theatrhythm (unless I'm wrong?). And why not? It's a new game coming out, and even if you're not interested in non-VII things, Cloud, Sephiroth, & Aerith are in the game!

 

[Octo]

As far as attracting newcomers to the site, I still feel that marketing a 15-year old game is going to limit how many new people come in. Yeah, people are out there playing it for the first time, but probably not many. I had voiced in the past that we shouldn't be afraid to jump into the other FF games. (we do a little, but not really.) Lure in the newer crowd that's playing XIII (or future games), while still focusing on VII stuff. How? idk, I'm just the idea man

Yeah, I think anything related to FF in general should be a draw, theres no need to limit it to VII stuff. tbh I have no idea about the newer FF's, but if for example there are ultimanias and shit that have yet to be translated it would be cool to start on those (says she who knows about 3 Japanese words!)

I have to say I really feel for our translators here, because by and large they have a huge frickin workload and very little reward, and I know as fans they too have a vested interest in translating stuff but its still a mammoth task.

I think we could try some sort of fundraising a la Kickstarter, where money could be pledged and then upon completion theres a guaranteed payment? I dunno.

The other thing is maybe scouting for more translators to lighten the load?

I'm just thinking aloud here

Then there's Octo who I don't really talk to outside of the board, but I have never seen anything that can be remotely misconstrued as rude come from her. So unless she does a complete 180 when you talk to her one-on-one then idk

SHADDAP ASSPIPE!

 

[looneymoon]

I must admit, my interest in FF7 has waned tremendously in recent years. I'll still pop up in a discussion about it once in a while but otherwise? Eh.

It kind of sucks because back when TLS was still fairly new I had a couple of analyses I wanted to write up. I guess I could force myself to write them now, but it's difficult when I honestly just don't care about the material. It's tough since I think the fandom as a whole has been really jaded by the compilation. It makes it hard not to be cynical.

 

[Octo]

Serious question, does anyone here frequent any other FF based forums? Are they all as jaded as we are? I feel like somewhere out there there is still a pocket of fans who still have hope....maybe we should find them and kidnapp them?

 

[Max Payne]

Not to be a nag but shouldnt this stuff go in like, a community projects thread?