How will the new party members be included gameplay/story wise?

Golden Ear

Pro Adventurer
AKA
M. Prod
#1
First off I believe all of the OG cast will be fully playable party members, from Cait Sith to Cid to Vincent all of them without question.

My question is will party members all-ways be with us for the entirety of Rebirth once we acquire them or will they have story reasons for coming in and out or not always being available gameplay wise?

Unlike the OG, characters can’t just be invisible when they aren’t in are immediate party of 3. Every character has to have dialogue and a reason for being there that adds to the story through each location and section of the game that we play through.

For example: Let’s say we get Cait Sith and the Gold Saucer. Will we continue with Cait Sith in our party after we leave Gold saucer?

How will they write in Cait Sith so that he has meaning through sections like Gongaga, Nibelheim, Mt. Nibelheim? Since Cait Sith is such a goofy looking character, does it make sense to have him in our party during some of the more serious, mysterious and haunting sections of the game like the return to Nibelheim?

We will have 7 party members by the time we reach Nibelheim for example(8 once we get Vincent) and I’m wondering if it makes sense to have every single one of those 7-8 characters trailing and running along side us while we go from shop to shop in the quiet small haunting moody village of Nibelheim, it might look a bit goofy and they need to have dialogue and purpose for every character.

-Will come characters split off from the main party at times?

-Will they have story reasons for leaving? And coming back in later?

I’ve considered that Cait Sith might not follow us after our first Visit of the Gold Saucer and then get re-introduced during our 2nd Visit to the Gold Saucer where he becomes more integral to the story. Or possibly he leaves after Cosmo Canyon for some reason?


Curious to everyone’s thoughts on this.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#2
How will they write in Cait Sith so that he has meaning through sections like Gongaga, Nibelheim, Mt. Nibelheim? Since Cait Sith is such a goofy looking character, does it make sense to have him in our party during some of the more serious, mysterious and haunting sections of the game like the return to Nibelheim?
They had Cait Sith witness the plate collapse and pound his fist in despair and anguish. They showed Cait Sith witness the sacrifice of dozens of women and children to Omega.

Yes. It makes sense. It's 2022 and people still doubt the resolve of these writers lol
 

Golden Ear

Pro Adventurer
AKA
M. Prod
#3
I'm not doubting any of the writers, but I think I might prefer not having 7-8 characters in all together in Nibelheim, Mt. Nibel for the reasons I suggested.

But I'm open to the way the do it, I guess Cait Sith just seems goofy in the way I picture it in my head. Maybe that character will really add to Nibelheim though so who knows.

Do you understand what I mean though? Just picture it your head. I'm not saying they won't have these 7 characters all trailing behind Cloud with there dialogue and quips and everything, but it will be interesting how they write them in. What will Cait Sith do in Nibelheim? Will he go in some shops and freak people out? What will the residents think of Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, a Wutai ninja, a big guy with a gun for an arm, Cat/dog thing with a mohawk, a giant Moogle with a small animated stuff little cat thing riding it.

I'm not saying it won't happen I'm just curious how they will write it in compared to the OG. They never had to touch any of the bizarre implications and logistics of how this motely crue of quirky characters will be perceived in the world that they go in. Maybe the Nibelheim residents will be baffled when we stroll in? It will be interesting to see.
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#4
but I think I might prefer not having 7-8 characters in all together in Nibelheim, Mt. Nibel for the reasons I suggested.

That's what's going to happen. Just like FFX, XII, XIII, XIV, and XV.

The whole party will be around as a group. This isn't some new issue or unforseen challenge in game design or scene layout. Look at every Final Fantasy since IX. The party is a group. A team that works together, talks together, develops together, etc. They're rewriting the script so it'll naturally accommodate there being multiple people in a scene.

We already have a group of 5 traveling together. Soon it will be 9.
 

Golden Ear

Pro Adventurer
AKA
M. Prod
#5
I'm cool with that, I guess I just wouldn't care as much if they have a story reason for Cait Sith specifically to leave the group at some point. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

But besides those very specific Cait Sith points, I wanted to make this thread just for everyone to overall speculate on how the new party members will have story and dialogue importance. I think Cid is already good from the OG since we have a lot of character and story from him all-ready, but what about Vincent? He was pretty bare bones, will he be the silent brooding type? Will he have some important exposition in what's to come? How will these characters interact with each other? Vincent and Barret? Yuffie and Red XIII?

Also how will the Keystone part play out? Will it be changed somewhat? I was speculating that Cait Sith might try to use Yuffie to his advantage in help for stealing the keystone from the party, it'll be interesting to see some backing stabbing dynamics between the characters if the writers choose to go in that direction. Will the party trust Yuffie and Cait Sith? Will they be apprehensive about them tagging along?
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#6
They'll write more for Vincent, just like they did for Yuffie.

How will they interact? Well, that's the beauty of the Remake series. You'll find out :monster: It's the sort of expansionary writing that's best delivered by a game like this.
 

Golden Ear

Pro Adventurer
AKA
M. Prod
#7
Just to be clear, I'm not asking these questions in a sense of doubting how good it might be or how they will do it. I was hoping to spark speculation and conversation for myself and other people on this board in the possible ways they will handle it. It find it interesting to think about and theorize in which ways they will interact and what kind of dynamics we might be seeing between characters interaction as well as how they are implemented into the gameplay and story beats.
 

Ashen

Lv. 25 Adventurer
#8
I think I get what you mean. If not well done, it could look really weird, having such a big and conspicuous group moving around. I'm sure SE can handle it, but speculating won't hurt either ^^

Personally, I think they could have the active party walk a bit ahead in areas, and the rest a bit farther back as rearguard. Actually, it'd be interesting if back-attacks were translated to attacks to the rearguard party... They could later regroup for important scenes, and maybe disperse around in towns, kinda like in IX. Something like that.
 

Wol

Saving a Lost Future
AKA
Dawn Warrior
#9
Cherdley will create holograms of your favorite characters with perfect I.A.

They could use this system to reskin real characters while reusing the same gameplay. So cool, this DLC thing.
 
#10
I think I get what you mean. If not well done, it could look really weird, having such a big and conspicuous group moving around. I'm sure SE can handle it, but speculating won't hurt either ^^

Personally, I think they could have the active party walk a bit ahead in areas, and the rest a bit farther back as rearguard. Actually, it'd be interesting if back-attacks were translated to attacks to the rearguard party... They could later regroup for important scenes, and maybe disperse around in towns, kinda like in IX. Something like that.
Oh yeah, I like the idea that the party disperses off when you get to a town, and you can go and find and chat with them wherever they're hanging out. Could mean different characters join you for different side quests too.
 

Fiz

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Eh?
#11
First off I believe all of the OG cast will be fully playable party members, from Cait Sith to Cid to Vincent all of them without question.

My question is will party members all-ways be with us for the entirety of Rebirth once we acquire them or will they have story reasons for coming in and out or not always being available gameplay wise?

Unlike the OG, characters can’t just be invisible when they aren’t in are immediate party of 3. Every character has to have dialogue and a reason for being there that adds to the story through each location and section of the game that we play through.

For example: Let’s say we get Cait Sith and the Gold Saucer. Will we continue with Cait Sith in our party after we leave Gold saucer?

How will they write in Cait Sith so that he has meaning through sections like Gongaga, Nibelheim, Mt. Nibelheim? Since Cait Sith is such a goofy looking character, does it make sense to have him in our party during some of the more serious, mysterious and haunting sections of the game like the return to Nibelheim?

We will have 7 party members by the time we reach Nibelheim for example(8 once we get Vincent) and I’m wondering if it makes sense to have every single one of those 7-8 characters trailing and running along side us while we go from shop to shop in the quiet small haunting moody village of Nibelheim, it might look a bit goofy and they need to have dialogue and purpose for every character.

-Will come characters split off from the main party at times?

-Will they have story reasons for leaving? And coming back in later?

I’ve considered that Cait Sith might not follow us after our first Visit of the Gold Saucer and then get re-introduced during our 2nd Visit to the Gold Saucer where he becomes more integral to the story. Or possibly he leaves after Cosmo Canyon for some reason?


Curious to everyone’s thoughts on this.
While I'm sure the party will be plot forced at points due to story logic and in some of the more cinematic battles, I expect we will use the PHS most of the time to swap party members in and out.

That said, if they're changing how things play out, I really appreciated how FF6 utilised more of the group by requiring you to form 2 or 3 groups that work together.

I don't think having them around would be weird, only if you had 6 or 7 characters following Cloud across areas, hence PHS.
 

Golden Ear

Pro Adventurer
AKA
M. Prod
#12
I actually don't think we'll be using PHS in Rebirth because the game leans much more towards realism than the OG did in 97'.

The idea of PHS was that party members who weren't in your immediate party were just "away somewhere" basically just invisible. So we would not have any dialogue from them when we went to certain locations and they wouldn't have any presence until we just miraculously made them appear out of thin air by phoning them in. I don't think they can get away with that anymore going forward.

This is where it gets interesting going into Rebirth because every character that is in our party will be there and is going to have greater story/dialogue relevance as well as character interactions and dynamics that never had to be addressed in the OG nearly as much.

If I were to guess I think there will be moments where we have a big gang all together, but also moments where we temporarily split up depending on where in the story we are at as well as gameplay reasons. For example: On the way from Kalm ---> Chocobo farm we will be traversing the great floodplains which will be wide open space and can accommodate gameplay with 5 characters all together. Another example: We are in the Temple of the Ancients that has some more closed in areas or more intricately designed maze like passages that could have the party split up and go in different directions, but perhaps meet up again later.

Another example: Will the whole party go into the Cave of Gi dungeon before we get Seto's backstory? Or will the game force a team? It could be done where Cloud, Red XIII and one other party member go down with Bugenhagen to explore the caves while the rest are chillin topside of Cosmo Canyon by the fire. Will we have an option on who we choose? If we did they would have to create multiple variations of Cutscenes for Cave of Gi and Seto's Backstory for each of the unique characters we choose for our party. I'm inclined to think the game will decide for us, or they just give us the whole damn party.

There are all ready some moments like this in OG like in the Gold Saucer when Barret is grumpy and goes off by himself. Cloud and party might split off into groups as they have fun with mini games and exploring the Saucer. Or when we dress up as an infantry in Junon going into the parade and cargo ship. When we play as Cloud dressed as an infantry during the parade will we see what the other party members are up to this time? Maybe it's possible some of them join us during the Rufus parade section?

It's possible they could do something like have Yuffie and Cait Sith secretly team up. Let's say the re-write it so we get the Keystone early, even on our first visit to the Gold Saucer from Dio. We get the buggy and go to Cosmo Canyon-->Gongaga-->>Nibelheim. But as we stop the buggy and venture towards Nibelheim, Yuffie and Cait Sith make up an excuse to chill in the Buggy while the rest of us go. When we leave they hijack the keystone as well as the buggy and travel back to Gold Saucer just leaving us with no vehicle and nowhere to go but past Nibelheim.

It could be convenient from a gameplay/story perspective since at this time is when we get even more characters, Vincent and then Cid just a bit later. It would free up some room so these new characters get more time to be introduced and give breathing space in terms character/story real estate. It would also possibly streamline the Keystone section of the OG since it was a bit of an unnecessary back in forth to figure out what to do or where to go and there is just so much content from Kalm ---> Whirlwind Maze going forward for Rebirth that it might be something that would help the story pacing.
 

Fiz

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Eh?
#13
I actually don't think we'll be using PHS in Rebirth because the game leans much more towards realism than the OG did in 97'.

The idea of PHS was that party members who weren't in your immediate party were just "away somewhere" basically just invisible. So we would not have any dialogue from them when we went to certain locations and they wouldn't have any presence until we just miraculously made them appear out of thin air by phoning them in. I don't think they can get away with that anymore going forward.

This is where it gets interesting going into Rebirth because every character that is in our party will be there and is going to have greater story/dialogue relevance as well as character interactions and dynamics that never had to be addressed in the OG nearly as much.

If I were to guess I think there will be moments where we have a big gang all together, but also moments where we temporarily split up depending on where in the story we are at as well as gameplay reasons. For example: On the way from Kalm ---> Chocobo farm we will be traversing the great floodplains which will be wide open space and can accommodate gameplay with 5 characters all together. Another example: We are in the Temple of the Ancients that has some more closed in areas or more intricately designed maze like passages that could have the party split up and go in different directions, but perhaps meet up again later.

Another example: Will the whole party go into the Cave of Gi dungeon before we get Seto's backstory? Or will the game force a team? It could be done where Cloud, Red XIII and one other party member go down with Bugenhagen to explore the caves while the rest are chillin topside of Cosmo Canyon by the fire. Will we have an option on who we choose? If we did they would have to create multiple variations of Cutscenes for Cave of Gi and Seto's Backstory for each of the unique characters we choose for our party. I'm inclined to think the game will decide for us, or they just give us the whole damn party.

There are all ready some moments like this in OG like in the Gold Saucer when Barret is grumpy and goes off by himself. Cloud and party might split off into groups as they have fun with mini games and exploring the Saucer. Or when we dress up as an infantry in Junon going into the parade and cargo ship. When we play as Cloud dressed as an infantry during the parade will we see what the other party members are up to this time? Maybe it's possible some of them join us during the Rufus parade section?

It's possible they could do something like have Yuffie and Cait Sith secretly team up. Let's say the re-write it so we get the Keystone early, even on our first visit to the Gold Saucer from Dio. We get the buggy and go to Cosmo Canyon-->Gongaga-->>Nibelheim. But as we stop the buggy and venture towards Nibelheim, Yuffie and Cait Sith make up an excuse to chill in the Buggy while the rest of us go. When we leave they hijack the keystone as well as the buggy and travel back to Gold Saucer just leaving us with no vehicle and nowhere to go but past Nibelheim.

It could be convenient from a gameplay/story perspective since at this time is when we get even more characters, Vincent and then Cid just a bit later. It would free up some room so these new characters get more time to be introduced and give breathing space in terms character/story real estate. It would also possibly streamline the Keystone section of the OG since it was a bit of an unnecessary back in forth to figure out what to do or where to go and there is just so much content from Kalm ---> Whirlwind Maze going forward for Rebirth that it might be something that would help the story pacing.
A certain amount of ludo narrative dissonance is acceptable. As an action RPG, limiting the party formation possibilities and playstyle options is quite undesirable. I don't quite understand why character dialogues and events while exploring areas becomes a problem when other games deal with this just fine, utilising unique character events and party chatter that varies depending on the location and group setup, and the group is often travelling together as part of the plot anyway.

In other words, they're going to have to abstract the group no matter what they do, or have a snake of 6+ characters following Cloud all the time; and abstracting them is fine. Have your playable group visible in the field, then have them scattered about in towns. Whether they are called by PHS from the previous town, then all just have arrived in the next town when you get there, or they're invisible in the field is neither here nor there.
 

Golden Ear

Pro Adventurer
AKA
M. Prod
#14
Firstly if your suggesting that the party will all be together as we travel then I agree with you and I also think travelling through many parts of Rebirth will have a large party, so we are on the same page as far as that's concerned. No issue there with have dialogue between Barret, Yuffie, Red XIII, Aerith, Tifa, Cloud ect as they will all be present on screen.

I think you would also agree that there will be moments when the characters are split up on occasions so naturally we won't miss any intended dialogue from said characters since we just either play them at different times from each other, or we just catch up with them later.

What I'm saying is when we have 4-9 characters in our party we do choose 3 of them. The other characters will be in our party but perhaps not be at the forefront of battles but can be swapped in at any time. So on our way to the Chocobo Farm I don't think any party members will be chilling at Kalm when you choose your party of 3, I think they will all be there with us and be completely visible!

But besides that If I'm understanding you correctly, what you're also imagining is:

We can choose 3 characters at a time from our party (whether we have 4-9 characters)

The rest of the party that we are not using could potential be chilling at a town (possible the closest one in the chapter or story location that your currently at)

Let's make a hypothetical so I understand your point:

1.We are at Kalm with our 5 characters.

2.We choose Cloud, Barret, Tifa in our party and then go off to travel towards the Chocobo Farm

3. Aerith and Red XIII stay chilling at Kalm since they are not in our immediate party

4. Any cutscenes that happen either on the way to the Chocobo Farm, at the Chocobo Farm, or at the Midgar Zolum fight will have multiple variations of how they play out between the configuration of your party members showing interactions between the party members. (or as you say "unique character events and party chatter that varies depending on the location and group setup"

5. Let's say there are cutscenes at the MIdgar Zolum fight with interactions between the characters (just like how we see in remake part 1). The developers will have made unique cutscenes for (assuming you can't not have Cloud):

Cloud, Tifa, Barret
Cloud, Tifa, Aerith
Cloud, Tifa, Red XIII
Cloud, Barret, Aerith
Cloud, Barret, Red XIII
Cloud, Aerith, Red XIII

I suppose it's possible but It seems like an incredible amount of cutscene work to accommodate any one of those configurations and that's for just one Boss battle of the entire game!

This is why I don't think any party members will be "scattered in town" like you're suggesting when we don't choose them in our party or "invisible on the field", they will just come along with us and be completely visible.

Now I do agree that in certain places like say the Gold Saucer at the colosseum we will be a choose characters for battle, but that will probably be more like the VR fights in the Shinra building in Remake Part 1. But that's easy to accommodate for since those sections are not story/cutscene heavy.
 
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Prism

Pro Adventurer
AKA
pikpixelart
#15
I don't think they'll craft custom scenes for each party configuration. Perhaps this time, they're all mandatory. It just doesn't seem they'll use development resources that way in the modern day, but you never know. Them being optional in the original is a big part of their charm, but perhaps making them optional would limit how their character development and interactions can be elaborated on.

The party setup could basically be like FFXIII, where in the story, the whole team is together - but in gameplay, you choose a handful of them to use as your battle party configuration. I guess...come to think of it, that's basically the OG's system, there's just not a PHS rationale to explain it away.

Either that or the party members not in your party would be controlled by AI, just like Red XIII in Remake.
 

Golden Ear

Pro Adventurer
AKA
M. Prod
#16
I don't think they'll craft custom scenes for each party configuration. Perhaps this time, they're all mandatory. It just doesn't seem they'll use development resources that way in the modern day, but you never know. Them being optional in the original is a big part of their charm, but perhaps making them optional would limit how their character development and interactions can be elaborated on.

The party setup could basically be like FFXIII, where in the story, the whole team is together - but in gameplay, you choose a handful of them to use as your battle party configuration. I guess...come to think of it, that's basically the OG's system, there's just not a PHS rationale to explain it away.

Either that or the party members not in your party would be controlled by AI, just like Red XIII in Remake.
Yep, that's basically my point. Instead of how the PHS worked in the OG they'll all just be with us and we can swap them out on the fly. That's my best guess.
 

Rindo Kanede

Rookie Adventurer
#17
Regarding characters talking to each other, I think that it's likely that we'll experience a fair amount of exchanges between most members, but people should recall that in the Lord of the Rings films, Legolas, a pivotal character, only speaks to Frodo exactly once. This doesn't impact people's perception of those characters' shared experiences or friendship, since it's essentially shown by virtue of their time spent together.

I make that reference to showcase that FF's storytelling in terms of character relationship building can be generally quite 'shallow' in that a lot of it is inferred/implied or fairly subtle. I love all of the main cast of FF7 (especially Cait Sith, who I really want to see a lot of) and fully expect them to be swappable at nearly any time into groups of 3-4 unless the story demands it.

Also give me a system like FFX where I can pull anyone into battle at any time.
 

Golden Ear

Pro Adventurer
AKA
M. Prod
#18
Regarding characters talking to each other, I think that it's likely that we'll experience a fair amount of exchanges between most members, but people should recall that in the Lord of the Rings films, Legolas, a pivotal character, only speaks to Frodo exactly once. This doesn't impact people's perception of those characters' shared experiences or friendship, since it's essentially shown by virtue of their time spent together.

I make that reference to showcase that FF's storytelling in terms of character relationship building can be generally quite 'shallow' in that a lot of it is inferred/implied or fairly subtle. I love all of the main cast of FF7 (especially Cait Sith, who I really want to see a lot of) and fully expect them to be swappable at nearly any time into groups of 3-4 unless the story demands it.

Also give me a system like FFX where I can pull anyone into battle at any time.
I generally agree with this, but they will still greatly expand and give greater story significance to Vincent for example compared to the OG where we basically just said a couple things and was silence for the vast majority of the game. So I find it interesting to consider what ways they will do this, what other characters will Vincent get along with? Which character will he have issue with? What kind of conflicts will exist between characters?

My prediction is that Rebirth will focus on the strife between characters. I think backstabbing, mistrust and dissension will all be issues that will be explored more specifically in this one compared to part 1 and it will all culminate at the end. I don't think this will be a happy party in Rebirth.
 
#19
Games like FFXII suffered immensely in my eyes for the lack of interaction amongst the party. Square games have improved a lot in this regard in recent years. FFXV and VIIR in particular. This is one area in which I am not concerned at all for the remainder of the project. All of the interparty reactions in part 1 (and especially in the ending of Intermission) were absolutely pitch. perfect.
 

Golden Ear

Pro Adventurer
AKA
M. Prod
#20
Games like FFXII suffered immensely in my eyes for the lack of interaction amongst the party. Square games have improved a lot in this regard in recent years. FFXV and VIIR in particular. This is one area in which I am not concerned at all for the remainder of the project. All of the interparty reactions in part 1 (and especially in the ending of Intermission) were absolutely pitch. perfect.
I completely agree with you, the interactions between the characters are one of my favorite things about Remake and I think they nailed it so I'm not worried in the slightest. Like how they gave more comedic moments between Barret and Red XIII just for example.

That's why I find it interesting to consider how they'll handle character interaction going forward. What will they do?

How will Yuffie take to Barret, will Barret mistrust Yuffie and be keeping an eye on her?

Will alliances be formed between specifics members? This is why I'm wondering if something like Cait Sith and Yuffie might team up to steal something. Will Yuffie take to Cait Sith because she finds him charming and interesting (she's 16) has a fondness for moogles? Maybe Cait Sith can use her for his advantage and lie to her about Cloud being apart of Shinra because he was a Soldier? Stuff such as that.
 
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