Huge Materia Junon - Need HELP!

[nate777]

So I am playing FF7 again, this time on the Nintendo Switch. I have successfully managed thus far to get to the Huge Materia section of the game. I wasn't successful in stopping the train at Corel, but was able to win the battle at Ft Condor and received the Huge Materia there. Then, because I got Cloud back in my party from Mideel, I went to the Gold Saucer and successfully obtained items from the battle area (Omnislash, W-Summon). I also took this time to breed and race Chocobo's, getting the GOld Chocobo and then successfully getting all the special materia and items including Knights of the Round, and the items from the Ancient Forest.

Here is my plea for help. I returned to Junon to try and continue the main story plot and do the next piece which would be gathering the huge materia from the submarine game. I have read all sorts of walk-throughs and every one of them says the as I walk down the street of Junon, Cloud will recognize that the Cannon is missing, and then as I go down towards the reactor, the guards will attack me, setting off the next series of events and leading to the underwater reactor plot. Unfortunately, no matter what I try, I cannot get this to happen. All the people in Junon say the right things and point me to the underground reactor, but when I go down there, the guards are still training, and the two guards (one with the dog), are blocking the doorways. I have tried going to all the other towns in the game and they all point me to Junon, yet I cannot get the Huge Materia scene to start.

Is this a glitch in the game? Do I need to restart and successfully obtain the huge materia at Corel (which I read i don't need to)?

Please help. I really don't want to restart as it took forever to get all the special items and breed chocobos, etc. Any comments or help would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Nate

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

As far as I can remember, you don't need the huge materia from Corel.
Have you tried having a conversation with the Junon guards?

 

[Sprites]

No you don't need the huge materia to progress.

But is the scene with Cloud saying somethings missing not triggering or the bit with the guards in the tunnel not triggering? Just trying to figure out if you are doing something wrong on the way.

 

[nate777]

I have tried to talk to all the guards, including those by the airport, those still training Clouds special move, and then of course the guards closer to the submarine area. The guard training the troops makes a comment that Shrina is gathering huge material from Corel and Ft Condor, and that they will be bringing it to the underwater reactor next. I literally have tried to talk to everyone I can think of in the game, including going back to Corel, Fort condor, and much more. What am I missing??!

 

[cold_spirit]

Hmmm, after the scene where the party questions the missing cannon, did you see the scene where the guards march in the wrong direction?

Below is a no commentary video walkthrough of what should happen:

 

[nate777]

The problem is I can’t get the party to question the missing cannon. Does it matter who is in my party?

 

[Shademp]

Question more out of curiosity than me having hope of finding a solution:
Is the cannon gone from Junon in the overworld for you or is it still there?

Junon in the overworld before the party notices the missing cannon:


Junon in the overworld after the party notices the missing cannon:


The current party members have no impact on whether or not the cannon is noticed.

 

[Shademp]

It should be noted that game breaking bugs on the modern PC version have been observed in the past. The bug observed in both the Steam- and Switch version is that the game's "GameMoment" variable (which measures how far along you are in the story) isn't updated/incremented properly. The value stayed at 248 when it should have been updated to 257. This meant (among other things) that the golden, shiny wire of hope didn't show up in Sector 6 and so the party couldn't climb up to Shinra HQ.

Though this example happened only a few hours into the game (on both PC/Steam and Switch), it's entirely possible that it could happen for the Underwater Reactor quest. If the invisible value "GameMoment" is less than 1250 then the "missing cannon" scene won't happen. If your GameMoment value was 1250 then you'd also see Shinra grunts running towards the elevator (going to the Underwater Reactor) no matter if the missing-cannon scene had triggered or not. This first scene with the infantrymen sets the GameMoment to 1253, which will then make available the scene in the elevator (going down towards the Underwater Reactor) where you fight two Shinra infantrymen.

The downside of playing the Switch version is that unless you are willing to install homebrew on your console there is no chance (afaik) of you retrieving the FF7 save data and getting it fixed. According to these comments from 2018 there is a risk that Nintendo might detect that you've modded your console and they may or may not take action against this.

**Edited to add: The moment your GameMoment value is meant to change to 1250 is in the Highwind meeting room, shortly after Cloud has finished his speech. As you try to leave the meeting room, the Highwind personnel approaches Cloud.

“Cloud, I was deeply​

moved by your story!”​

“I'm really a weak person​

and so I could​

really understand​

how you feel, Cloud!”​

“No one knows when fighting will begin.​

But let's get ready!”​

You are then brought to the PHS menu to select your party. Immediately after you finish your party selection, the GameMoment advances up to value 1250 and you are then teleported to the Highwind bridge where Cait Sith informs Cloud about the Huge Materia quest. Seeing as the PC versions tend to have glitches associated with both menus and field/map teleportation, it would make sense for the Switch version to mess up here and accidentally skip the GameMoment increment.


If this is what happened in your playthrough, then there's a big possibility that Cait Sith did NOT automatically follow up with this line to Cloud on the Highwind bridge after Cloud's speech, due to the event requiring that the GameMoment value is exactly 1250.

Cait Sith​

“Listen, Cloud.”​

“We're right in the middle of the​

mission for the Huge Materia, right?”​

​

Cait Sith​

“I know this's kinda outta the blue, but​

there's a underwater reactor at Junon.”​

“As far as I can see,​

that's the only one left.”​

“That's that. Let's go!”​

The characters on the Highwind bridge will still have their optional dialogue properly updated because the if-condition for those lines of text is simply that the GameMoment is less than 1280.


The point of me mentioning all this is that the plot-progression events are unique and one-time only. There is no NPC you can talk to or any event you can trigger that will help you, sadly.

While I doubt that modding your Switch will *actually* lead to Nintendo taking action against you, I would recommend getting in touch with a Nintendo modding/homebrew community before making the decision on whether to forcibly extract your FF7 save data so that it can be corrected.

 

[Shademp]

Third post because I'm unhinged but I want to show where I suspect the error occurred. This also reveals an unlikely solution.

Spoiler: fship_3 scripting

If Bit 6 was set to On, which it probably was, you can't trigger this scene with the Highwind NPC again even if your GameMoment is stuck at 1199.

So if you test going to the Highwind meeting room @nate777 and you can't trigger this dialogue with the Highwind NPC yet again, then it's back to the "Nintendo Switch console modding/homebrew" plan again.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

What would cause that to happen anyway @Shademp ?

 

[Shademp]

I do not know code-wise what would be the cause so I can only speculate. But for every port the game has gotten more glitchy.

The PC98 port made it really easy to skip event borders by continually entering and leaving the menu as you traverse a landscape. This way you could skip events both on the overworld (example: impaled Midgar Zolom) and on the normal maps (example: party members reacting to Nibelheim still standing). Setups like these are either impossible or near-impossible on the PS1.

Then the PC2012 port came along and truly made a mess both with persistent music cue glitches and the Yuffie Warping Glitch. The game clearly is having trouble with executing actions (music) and clearing and/or updating memory properly (Yuffie Warping Glitch). I would assume then that the game skipping instructions that update the GameMoment value is just another manifestation of these already known issues.

The Nintendo Switch port has introduced more glitches to the game. More game freezes and more performance issues. The safest way to play the Switch version is to often make backup saves.

 

[Sprites]

Crazy theres performance issues for such an old game on such a modern piece of hardware.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Crazy theres performance issues for such an old game on such a modern piece of hardware.

Thankfully, Sony has stepped up to the plate to solve such issues by saying "Just let old games die forever."

Unless it's "The Last of Us," in which case we can apparently expect an updated release every console generation.

 

[Shademp]

"Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to." -Sony

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

@nate777 You might have been quite unlucky.

I can speak about the Switch version. I bought it and got it on the internal Switch memory.
It is derived from the PC version (PC version either emulated or binary-recompiled I think, as on PS4 and Xbox)
YET it is the most updated version compared to the Steam, and PS4 versions (dunno about the Xbox, but probably on par here since released and received updates around the same time).

As far as I know here's my list of wrongs with it:

PROBLEMS DERIVED FROM PC RELEASE
- Bad lighting compared to PS1
- Audio is not lossless from PS1 (but at least not MIDI music anymore), and some field maps (2 or 3?) have the wrong music playing.
- Battle UI updates at the wrong FPS
- Entering OK at a menu selection while keep pressing down or up will take you to the upper or lower menu selection than you were intending
- The Buggy doesn't display the proper rear dust or water particles or maybe it does but very slightly?
- There was some other bugs which got patched a long time ago first on Switch, then Xbox, and much much later on PS4 (not all there).
- Probably more than is worth losing my time here pointing out, but none game breaking, only tiny stuff related to GFX

SWITCH STUFF
- Low performance when there is a bunch of NPCs, such as in the Chocobo Square
- Super super rare game hang after battle (only happened to me at World Map near Cosmo, and only ONCE)

So far after playing there A LOT and beating haven't found anything else (new bugs) or game breaking bugs like the event-flags glitch.

Wish they had not lost the original PS source code.
At least they should've strived to recover it through decompilation as a few of us have been doing.

 

[nate777]

So a few things to respond to. I checked and yes the cannon is still showing on the world map for Junon. The music playing when in Junon indicates there is a threat from Weapon, as such some of the folks I talk to mention Weapon.

I tried multiple times to even just go to the highwind meeting room and cannot even do that... nothing happens when I press the buttons that typically allow it.

 

[Shademp]

So a few things to respond to. I checked and yes the cannon is still showing on the world map for Junon. The music playing when in Junon indicates there is a threat from Weapon, as such some of the folks I talk to mention Weapon.

So what you're saying is that this music is playing in Junon?

In what exact map does the "Weapon Raid" music start playing? Can you screenshot the first map where this music always starts playing?

I tried multiple times to even just go to the highwind meeting room and cannot even do that... nothing happens when I press the buttons that typically allow it.

At what part specifically are you denied access? Is it that when you take the Highwind to the skies on the overworld? Is the normal button not allowing you to access the Highwind bridge while you are flying the Highwind?


^Highwind bridge.

 

[nate777]

Ok I misspoke, definitely not the music you shared. It is just different music then when I have gone to Junon before, the same as in this walkthrough video...

Yes, the normal button to access the highwind bridge is no longer doing anything.

 

[Shademp]

The music [A Full Scale Attack] is correct for that point in the game in Junon. The condition for it to play is that the GameMoment is equal to- or higher than 1008.

I did a test just now and modded FFVII so that instead of advancing from GameMoment 1199 and up to value 1250 in the Highwind meeting room, it stays on value 1199. The result is that I experience the same glitches you do @nate777.

- Junon scenes that lead to Underwater Reactor scenario can no longer be triggered.​

- Complete inability to return to the Highwind bridge.​

I do not have tools or knowledge to confirm how the overworld files work, but clearly it is expecting your GameMoment to be higher than 1199 at this stage or else you aren't allowed to return to the Highwind bridge from the overworld.

Without a method to cheat- or glitch teleport yourself to an area of the game that will advance the GameMoment, or a way to mod your save file, you are stuck where you are. =/


EDIT: Another difference that occurs from being stuck on GameMoment 1199 is that the normal, bleak overworld music continues playing when you ride the airship. But if your GameMoment is at 1250 the happy Highwind theme will play when you take the airship to the skies.

 

[Sprites]

This is absolutely fascinating, I mean it sucks for nate that the game is stuck but seeing the values that cause it and wondering what does it is fascinating!

 

[nate777]

Quick update. I finally decided to go back to my most recent save point, the Cat & the Keystone plot, and took the game from there. This time I successfully got the Huge Materia from Corel, Ft Connor, then Junon, with zero glitches with the underground reactor. There was a quick smile on my face when I saw Cloud question the missing cannon at Junon, something I had tried only 50 times or so in my previous game questioning my very sanity.

Only after saving my game at least 30 different times in various game slots, and then trying the main story plot at Rocket Town to make sure that wasn't hung up, did I get my gold chocobo and all my special items at the Gold Saucer in the battle arena. I am finally back!

Lesson to all - save the game, a lot. Thanks for all your help!

 

[cold_spirit]

Interesting. I wonder which side quest altered your GameMoment variable (if that is what happened). My understanding is that the flevel files (basically the field map data) are largely responsible for updating the GameMoment and that these files are almost identical to the original PC version. So I'm surprised this hasn't been reported earlier.

 

[Shademp]

Great news nate! Wonderful that you didn't have to start over all the way from the beginning.

@cold_spirit
My impression is that errors like music cues and the GameMoment not updating has pretty much nothing at all to do with the data inside the flevel files but rather due to poor emulation of how the flevel data is read. This leads to errors both consistent and random. So if the cause of such errors will ever be found it's going to be outside of the flevel data.