Ifalna's pre-Icicle Inn/Lodge history

[Theozilla]

I was recently looking through the fan art and comics of Crimson Sun (they have a lot neat head-canons about early Shinra Company stuff), and I got to wondering; aside from the Crisis Core Complete Guide Keyword Collection's entries on Professor Gast:

Has there been any other material, be it from the OG, Remake, Compilation, or other guide books/extraneous supplementary stuff, that discussed or even implied, what Ifalna was doing before settling down with Gast in the Northern Continent?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Not really. Though the Ultimania Omega had it that Ifalna was an Icicle Inn local instead of ... whatever the CC Complete Guide did.

 

[Theozilla]

Not really. Though the Ultimania Omega had it that Ifalna was an Icicle Inn local instead of ... whatever the CC Complete Guide did.

Seems like the Crimson Sun artist prefers the notion Ifalna was already with Shinra before meeting Gast.

Anyways, does the TLS site have the Ultimania Omega translations (that were done by @Strangelove or @Ryushikaze ?), I haven't been able to locate them myself so far (this list page doesn't seem to have any links to them https://thelifestream.net/lifestrea...-of-final-fantasy-vii-ultimania-translations/ ).

Also Ifalna being from the Icicle Inn area originally doesn't automatically contradict the Crisis Core keywords necessarily, as Ifalna could have still been from there and then got recruited/captured by Shinra before then returning to the Icicle Inn with Gast when the latter deserted.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Seems like the Crimson Sun artists prefers the notion Ifalna was already with Shinra before meeting Gast.

Crim is just one person.

Anyways, does the TLS site have the Ultimania Omega translations (that were done by @Strangelove or @Ryushikaze ?), I haven't been able to locate them myself so far (this list page doesn't seem to have any links to them https://thelifestream.net/lifestrea...-of-final-fantasy-vii-ultimania-translations/ ).

I don't believe hito ever finished his piecemeal Story Playback section translations to a degree he deemed satisfactory. And I don't recall Ryu ever doing any?

Also Ifalna being from the Icicle Inn area originally doesn't automatically contradict the Crisis Core keywords necessarily, as Ifalna could have still been from there and then got recruited/captured by Shinra before then returning to the Icicle Inn with Gast when the latter deserted.

The problem is more that it claims Gast traveled and met her there after leaving Shin-Ra.

 

[Theozilla]

Crim is just one person.

Oh I know, I didn't mean to imply that their status a relatively well-known fanartist (who's done stuff for unofficial projects/works) granted them some sort of greater authority. I was just stating it because their art is what prompted me to wonder about the subject and create this thread.

I don't believe hito ever finished his piecemeal Story Playback section translations to a degree he deemed satisfactory. And I don't recall Ryu ever doing any?

I assumed @Ryushikaze had done some because of this page
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/130791-final-fantasy-vii/faqs/42137
from GameFAQs (but it's kinda hard to navigate for information) and wondered if it ever got archived on TLS.

The problem is more that it claims Gast traveled and met her there after leaving Shin-Ra.

Oh it does? Well, that's definitely one part of why I am/was curious to see the original context of the Omega blurb, because phrasing can change essential details easily.
Anyways, the Crisis Core Keywords came out after the Ultimania Omega right? So if the most recent publication gets priority for determining canon, the Crisis Core Keywords would overwrite the Ultimania Omega right?

And besides the Ultimania Omega and Crisis Core Keyword Collection, have there been any other sources pertaining to Ifalna's past pre-hooking up with Gast?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Oh I know, I didn't mean to imply that their status a relatively well-known fanartist (who's done stuff for unofficial projects/works) granted them some sort of greater authority.

I took what you said as you thinking Crim is more than one person -- "the Crimson Sun artists."

I assumed @Ryushikaze had done some because of this page
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/130791-final-fantasy-vii/faqs/42137
from GameFAQs (but it's kinda hard to navigate for information) and wondered if it ever got archived on TLS.

Oh, that wasn't Ryushikaze, i.e. Tim Jewett.

And besides the Ultimania Omega and Crisis Core Keyword Collection, have there been any other sources pertaining to Ifalna's past pre-hooking up with Gast?

Not that I know of.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

From what I remember, the OG has it that... something... went wrong with the Jenova Project, and Gast... kinda went crazy because of the implications of it and left Shinra. He then hopped around to a few places, including Cosmo Canyon, where he discussed Planet Theory with Bugenhagen. And it was only after that that he went to Icicle Inn and met Ifalna and found out from her what the truth of Jenova actually was.

CC has Ifalna telling Gast while he's still at Shinra what Jenova is, when is when Gast leaves the Jenova Project. And then they somehow get up to Icicle Inn.

I've always taken this change as giving Gast more sympathy. In that in the OG, he only left the Jenova Project not because it was morally wrong, but because he didn't get the results he expected. In CC, he leaves because he's realized what a horrible mistake he made by messing around with an alien. Neither versions of him make it out like he feels bad about the human experimentation going on... which still creates all sorts of problems.

That said, the issue I have with the OG's version of events is that I find it... very convient that Gast finds the one person who knows what Jenova is in a backwater town in the middle of nowhere. In CC, you've at least got someone who does know what Jenova is working on a project with that name and it's not too hard to think up some reasons Ifalna might be doing that. So Gast running into Ifalna is a lot less random at least.

 

[Theozilla]

I took what you said as you thinking Crim is more than one person -- "the Crimson Sun artists."

Oh d'oh! That was a grammar error on my part, my bad

Oh, that wasn't Ryushikaze, i.e. Tim Jewett.

Not that I know of.

Oh geez that's good to know! My mistake on assuming due to the similar usernames.

From what I remember, the OG has it that... something... went wrong with the Jenova Project, and Gast... kinda went crazy because of the implications of it and left Shinra. He then hopped around to a few places, including Cosmo Canyon, where he discussed Planet Theory with Bugenhagen. And it was only after that that he went to Icicle Inn and met Ifalna and found out from her what the truth of Jenova actually was.

CC has Ifalna telling Gast while he's still at Shinra what Jenova is, when is when Gast leaves the Jenova Project. And then they somehow get up to Icicle Inn.

I've always taken this change as giving Gast more sympathy. In that in the OG, he only left the Jenova Project not because it was morally wrong, but because he didn't get the results he expected. In CC, he leaves because he's realized what a horrible mistake he made by messing around with an alien. Neither versions of him make it out like he feels bad about the human experimentation going on... which still creates all sorts of problems.

That said, the issue I have with the OG's version of events is that I find it... very convient that Gast finds the one person who knows what Jenova is in a backwater town in the middle of nowhere. In CC, you've at least got someone who does know what Jenova is working on a project with that name and it's not too hard to think up some reasons Ifalna might be doing that. So Gast running into Ifalna is a lot less random at least.

I'm not sure if the OG even states directly whether or not Ifalna met Gast after he left Shinra or not, at least not that I can recall?

As for Gast and Bugenhagen in the OG, besides Bugenhagen having worked for Shinra before, Gast had also visited Cosmo Canyon multiple times during his tenure at Shinra. Vincent even states the machinery at Cosmo Canyon came from Shinra.


(also the party hearing the screams of the Planet just reminded me of Chapter 18 of the Remake and the party hearing screams then too)

I also prefer the Crisis Core change, partially due to the less convenient factor like you stated. But also because I like the theories/headcanon that the Crimson Sun artist does, that Ifalna could have even been a fellow researcher at one point. Their head-canon that Ifalna herself might not have even initially recognized Jenova as the "Calamity from the Sky" I think is a pretty neat take too.
https://risingoflights.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F124995524636

 

[Clement Rage]

"A couple of misled guys with questionable morals" We're talking about Hojo here, if she reveals anything, she is asked 'how do you know' and potentially ends up being put in a capsule herself, it's not just pique, it could mean her life.

It would seem super coincidental for Gast to discover Jenova is not a Cetra independently and then stumble across a real one.

Also if she was originally an Icicle Inn local, then going home was not a very good plan for fugitives.

Most logical thing seems to be that Ifalna was a specimen (hence 'escaped with') That does make Gast look very shady, though.

 

[Theozilla]

"A couple of misled guys with questionable morals" We're talking about Hojo here, if she reveals anything, she is asked 'how do you know' and potentially ends up being put in a capsule herself, it's not just pique, it could mean her life.

It would seem super coincidental for Gast to discover Jenova is not a Cetra independently and then stumble across a real one.

Also if she was originally an Icicle Inn local, then going home was not a very good plan for fugitives.

Most logical thing seems to be that Ifalna was a specimen (hence 'escaped with') That does make Gast look very shady, though.

In the original posters defense, I think they were being flippant in their description of Shinra to stress the comparative threat Jenova posed to the Planet compared to Shinra (at the time), presuming Ifalna knew at the time Jenova wasn't a Cetra.

Also as for whether or not Ifalna was a "specimen" or a former employee, the former case would have to justify Ifalna being in custody for reasons other than being a Cetra, as Shinra wouldn't have had a need for Jenova if they already knew about Ifalna being a Cetra (presuming Ifalna was with Shinra before the Jenova project had started and/or began bearing results), right?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

And besides the Ultimania Omega and Crisis Core Keyword Collection, have there been any other sources pertaining to Ifalna's past pre-hooking up with Gast?

I checked the 25th Memorial Ultimania, by the way, and it does reiterate the idea that Ifalna was a local of Icicle Inn and that Gast only learned that Jenova wasn't an Ancient while interviewing her there.

I've always taken this change as giving Gast more sympathy. In that in the OG, he only left the Jenova Project not because it was morally wrong, but because he didn't get the results he expected. In CC, he leaves because he's realized what a horrible mistake he made by messing around with an alien.

Well, the original game had this line from Elder Bugah: "One day, he showed up here, looking real distressed. He was mumbling something about Jenova not being an Ancient and that he'd done a terrible thing..."

Neither versions of him make it out like he feels bad about the human experimentation going on... which still creates all sorts of problems.

I suppose the game itself isn't explicit about it, but the Ultimania Omega did specify that he resigned from his position at Shin-Ra out of remorse for using humans for experiments.

That said, the issue I have with the OG's version of events is that I find it... very convient that Gast finds the one person who knows what Jenova is in a backwater town in the middle of nowhere. In CC, you've at least got someone who does know what Jenova is working on a project with that name and it's not too hard to think up some reasons Ifalna might be doing that. So Gast running into Ifalna is a lot less random at least.

I never thought it too weird that they would meet if Gast was traveling around doing research on the Ancients, talking to everyone who would listen, etc. Especially if he gets to the Icicle area and is still mentioning that he dug up an Ancient out of the ice. If Ifalna overhears that, she's going to be thinking "fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck, what did you dooooooooooo."

 

[Theozilla]

I checked the 25th Memorial Ultimania, by the way, and it does reiterate the idea that Ifalna was a local of Icicle Inn and that Gast only learned that Jenova wasn't an Ancient while interviewing her there.

Hmmm interesting, and the 25th Memorial Ultimania did come out after the Crisis Core Ultimania right?

Wonder which version the Remake will go with (presuming the Remake dives deeper into Gast and Ifalna’s past/history than the OG did)?

Another interesting thing I remembered/noticed while gong to the OG’s script is that Hojo states he already was aware of Ifalna’s status as a Cetra and her relationship with Gast for at least two years before Aerith was born. Interesting implications, especially that he was already counting on Gast and Ifalna to get down and dirty well before Aerith’s birth.

Also Ifalna states (at least in the OG’s English translation) “It, it’s them!!” when Hojo arrives to abduct then. The expression (combined with Hojo being confident that Gast and Ifalna would hook up early on) is vague/ambiguous enough in meaning that I feel like it can both argue for or against the notion that Ifalna had already met Hojo before in the past (i.e. she left Shinra with Gast).

 

[Clement Rage]

I guess this continues the trend of questionable Ultimania revelations.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

The canon has become so contradictory, by this point everybody is free to pick and choose whichever "canon" fact they prefer.
There is no reason to believe Gast was a particularly good person, aside from the fact he's Aerith's father, and nobody wants to think that Aerith's dad could have been a bad guy.
Sure he felt some remorse when he realised he'd got his science wrong, and sure he tried to defend his lover/wife and child from Shinra, which is more than Hojo and Hollander ever did, but that's still setting the bar pretty low, and I'm not sure it makes up for having agreed to create children as human experiments.
And you know, given the limited canon material available, it would not be impossible to spin a version in which he deliberately set out to woo Ifalna so that he could finally, finally create the Cetra/human hybrid he'd spent his entire career chasing after.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Oh d'oh! That was a grammar error on my part, my bad


Oh geez that's good to know! My mistake on assuming due to the similar usernames.

Ryu_Kaze and I used to be active on the same forums at the same time as well. The confusion has happened before.