SPOILERS Is Cloud doomed in order to ensure victory?

[Roundhouse]

Apparently in the compilation it is mentioned that Sephiroth can keep coming back from the dead as long as he is remembered, specifically by Cloud. Putting aside how ludicrous this is, does this mean that in remake, the ultimate way to defeat Sephiroth will involve Cloud dying? Will he sacrifice himself to stop Roth once and for all? In this sense, Cloud is Sephiroth's final horcrux.

Perhaps this is connected to something Loveless mentions...

'Legend shall speak
Of sacrifice at world's end
The wind sails over the water's surface
Quietly, but surely.'

[World's end = Edge of Creation?]

 

[Kai Schulen]

Oh god, that would be so messed up if Cloud's fated to die in the Remake, especially after everything he suffered through the entirety of the Compilation.

I like it.

This may also bring up the possibility of a remake of the remake in the future where we get to save Cloud from his fate at the cost of another character, and a remake of a remake of a remake where we have to save that character from sacrificing themselves and oh my god the wild train ride is never ending!!!!

I'm kidding, but by mentioning Cloud as Sephiroth's horcrux, it does make me imagine that Cloud will have a fated showdown with himself as a twist instead of him 1V1ing Sephiroth as we usually have.

 

[Eerie]

Lol this is stupid, it's too late already, Cloud should've died during the Nibelheim incident for that to not happen. It's not happening. The crux of Cloud's story is to replace this hatred by lots of good memories, so that his memories of Sephiroth will feel meaningless compared to his joy of living - something that is only achieved after ACC.

 

[Roundhouse]

Stupid seems a bit harsh XD But I like your idea, interesting!

 

[Torrie]

Sephiroth can keep coming back from the dead as long as he is remembered

I assume this must be a very specific memory, a strong emotional bond be it positive or negative. Otherwise it's not only Cloud that needs to die or at least erase his memory but also a fair share of Midgar. We do know that Sephiroth used to be a war hero, so a decent amount of Shinra people still remember him either in his glory days or after his, erm, reunion with Jenova. And there must be a few of his ex-fanclub members who probably still adore him, dead or alive.

If Cloud is indeed a conductor (I avoid saying horcrux because I haven't read HP and I have no clue how horcruxes work), I'm gonna hope that some thorough mental work would be enough to keep Seph in the lifestream long enough to dissolve completely.

If Cloud had to die in the story, I imagine it would have to be told in a somewhat different way so that the impact of his death would be the most heart-wrenching thing in the FF history from the storytelling perspective. No, he will never beat Aerith or Zack in this category Besides, we've already had two FF protagonists who died (but were resurrected in the later works, but ehh does it matter? Cloud can die and be resurrected too because it's Final Fantasy where no one dies properly)

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sephiroth's advent post-Meteor =/= perpetual immortality.

Like, watch the movie.

Sephiroth's "advent" was made possible thanks to Jenova still existing and being able to use it's Reunion to reincarnate his soul into a new body. Cloud merely served as a "core" to allow his own consciousness to withstand the pressure of erosion from the Lifestream.

Cloud killing himself wouldn't serve anything. It was about Sephiroth holding that hatred so that he can endure.

 

[Roundhouse]

I understand little of that jenova jargon, but if the point is essentially that Cloud dying doesn't solve the Sephiroth problem of him eternally coming back, then that is fair enough. So what is that weird thing about as long as he's remembered he can return? I'll need to find the quote people keep bringing up about that...

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's a line from Sephiroth in his short story about how he intends to revive himself in AC.

"At the same time, the core of his spirit, and those memories deeply related to it, moved from torrent to torrent, and traveled around the land, from city to city. When the people who were trying to escape, or those left unable to do anything but stand still, were enveloped by those streams, he decided to leave them with his stigma. If Cloud noticed that stigma, the man was certain that he would never disappear. As long as Cloud remembers me, I can continue to exist. Within the Lifestream, and on the surface. Even if my spirit disseminates, even if just one fragment of a memory courses around the planet, in the end I can count on Cloud’s consciousness to bring me back, the man thought."

It doesn't mean he'll literally never stop coming back as long as Cloud has a thought about him. The context is Geostigma and Jenova marking people who are vulnerable to the dark influence of his disembodied consciousness, lurking within the Lifestream. That's what allows him to influence the physical world, and create the situation necessary to have his "advent."

 

[Fiz]

I raised this before and got torn to shreds, but, I agree with your general interpretation and think Cloud probably has to die in order for Sephiroth to be dealt with once and for all. Which could potentially be where Remake is headed.

 

[Ite]

The central metaphor of Advent Children imo: trauma resonates. What happened to Cloud, what happened because of Cloud, what he carries around with him doesn’t go away just because it’s in the past. It’s there until the grave. Cloud’s memories of Aeris and Zack keep them alive, in some fashion, but so do his memories of Sephiroth. The good and bad memories still have power over him. Because this is a fantasy story, they also have MAGIC power expressed in an external threat to a town and his friends, but this is just the contrivance of an action-adventure story. It’s also why AC isn’t really about anyone except Cloud.

So, to OP’s question: is Cloud doomed to carry a threat with him until he dies? As someone who struggles with addiction and minor PTSD, I say: fuck yes. The solution is not to die, that’s basically Cloud’s bad attitude at the beginning of AC. The solution is to live well, confront yourself, and never stop fighting that poison whenever it rears its ugly, silver-haired head. And sure, when you die, there is peace. But those who you carry with you — including people like Aeris and Zack, go with you, so stay as long as you can, they are worth carrying until the end.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That concept of memories keeping those close to us alive in some form or fashion is a core component of FFVII's world building around spirit energy. Along with FFX and FFIX. So yeah, in a loose sense, those memories, those feelings will always be a part of Cloud and his existence.

And the significance of Cloud telling Sephiroth to "stay where you belong, in my memories" is literally Cloud telling Sephiroth that he's not afraid of carrying that weight. He's moved on from being stuck in that past pain. Sephiroth will be a memory. Not a phobia, not a thing that has to be shoved into the recesses of his subconscious lest he lose sight of himself. It's a reconciliation of his past and an overcoming of it.

Sephiroth's desire to no longer be confined as a memory clearly means he needs more than just Cloud to "think" of him to survive. That's not enough at all.

 

[Ite]

That concept of memories keeping those close to us alive in some form or fashion is a core component of FFVII's world building around spirit energy. Along with FFX and FFIX. So yeah, in a loose sense, those memories, those feelings will always be a part of Cloud and his existence.

And the significance of Cloud telling Sephiroth to "stay where you belong, in my memories" is literally Cloud telling Sephiroth that he's not afraid of carrying that weight. He's moved on from being stuck in that past pain. Sephiroth will be a memory. Not a phobia, not a thing that has to be shoved into the recesses of his subconscious lest he lose sight of himself. It's a reconciliation of his past and an overcoming of it.

Yes exactly! And trying to ignore/repress your mental knots and trauma is a sure fire way to make sure they do escalate beyond your control.

 

[hleV]

Don't think so. They had that fated to die thingy in FF15.