SPOILERS Is Sonon's role in the remake over?

[Roundhouse]

I was just talking about this in the predictions thread, and I wanted to know what the community makes of this as a whole. Do you think Sonon is dead and will not pop up again in the remake, or do you think he might actually return in some way? That final scene with him and Nero in Intergrade is interesting...

 

[Odysseus]

My head canon is he's the player character from Dirge's online mode, who was taken in by Nero and brainwashed by the Tsviet's to help them overthrow the restrictors. He'd be dead anyway because the player character dies at the end of that story.

Of course, Square might not do that lol. He'll be mentioned in the Wutai section by Yuffie at least, since they'll want to know what happened to him. Maybe he'll show up there as a brainwashed Shinra experiment instead.

 

[Makoeyes987]

My head canon is he's the player character from Dirge's online mode, who was taken in by Nero and brainwashed by the Tsviet's to help them overthrow the restrictors. He'd be dead anyway because the player character dies at the end of that story.

....

What.

But that's not how DC Online Mode goes at all. That's completely wrong.

Nevermind the fact the playable Tsviet can be a woman, the fact of the matter is that the recruit is a entirely new member of Deepground who's recruited by Restrictors and implanted with the restriction chip that's connected to the Deepground supercomputer Patricia.

That chip is implanted by Shinra to ensure the DG SOLDIERs obey Restrictor and can be physically restrained and killed if they disobey. Why would Nero implant that in Sonon? Why would Shinra let Nero "recruit" anybody since he's a simply fighting tool who's so dangerous they have to keep him locked up due to his volatility? They'd just let him do what he wants with a potential candidate?

If the Tsviets could just do that with Sonon themselves why would there need to be an elaborate scheme to trick the player character, make them think they had a sibling, and overcome the chip? They'd have a willing pawn already.

Sonon literally died. His death scene is called "Sonon's Last Moments."

 

[null]

The theme is loss, dead characters pls gtfo.

 

[Odysseus]

I'm not getting into a grand argument with you over my little pet idea, since I'm not particularly concerned if it's true or not, but I'll at least explain my thinking.

All of it completely hinges on Nero randomly carting off with Sonon's remains, so this isn't really a very founded theory, I just thought it'd be a fun way to connect the Yuffie stuff in. Keep in mind that I'm imagining a sort of minorly rebooted version of Dirge's online mode story, not exactly the same, so stuff like

Nevermind the fact the playable Tsviet can be a woman

doesn't matter. Sonon would just be filling the role that the nebulous non-person player character filled before.

the recruit is a entirely new member of Deepground who's recruited by Restrictors and implanted with the restriction chip that's connected to the Deepground supercomputer Patricia.

We'd kind of be retconning this part a bit. In my reimagined version of the scenario, Sonon would have his memories rewritten by Shelke to believe he's an ex-SOLDIER now Deepground member. Using deception, they'd slip him in among the new recruits.

That chip is implanted by Shinra to ensure the DG SOLDIERs obey Restrictor and can be physically restrained and killed if they disobey. Why would Nero implant that in Sonon?

He'd still need the chip in order to blend in. I'm assuming they'd have a way of checking. I know the Tsviet's plan hinged on a defective chip, but we never see how they know the player character has one before they start manipulating them, so maybe they had a way of influencing that too.

Why would Shinra let Nero "recruit" anybody since he's a simply fighting tool who's so dangerous they have to keep him locked up due to his volatility? They'd just let him do what he wants with a potential candidate?

No, they'd sneak him in, Shinra wouldn't know. I'm kind of imagining this as a spur of the moment idea Nero would have, having seen Sonon go toe-to-toe with himself, a top ranking Tsviet, and thinking he might be of use in Weiss' plan to overthrow the restrictor. He'd keep him stored in his darkness and somehow slip him into the new recruits later.

If the Tsviets could just do that with Sonon themselves why would there need to be an elaborate scheme to trick the player character, make them think they had a sibling, and overcome the chip?

You see, the sibling thing is another part of the minor retcon. Rather than making the player character believe they have a sibling at all, they instead overwrite the memory of Melphi's death with what they want him to believe, ultimately imposing the restrictor over Scarlet's role in her death. His backstory about tragic little sister death is what spawned this idea in my head to start with, it fell neatly into place.

And before you respond, just keep in mind this is just some fanfic head canon I made up for fun.

Sonon literally died. His death scene is called "Sonon's Last Moments."

This could still be true. It probably IS. I just think it's a fun idea.

 

[Makoeyes987]

And before you respond, just keep in mind this is just some fanfic head canon I made up for fun.

Right, but some people apparently do think he's still alive for some reason.

And I'm just confused. Where did that perception even come from? He literally died, unambiguously, on screen. In front of Yuffie.

Why would Sonon even be alive and in that role (or any role) in the first place? He's a corpse.

And to your example, the online multiplayer mode of DC has a main character, so why would the writers suddenly substitute them with random Wutai ninja wingman? They didn't do anything like that with Before Crisis and Cissnei, nor have they rewound their previous Compilation work. So why start with something as extremely obscure and unnecessary as DC Online with Sonon?

We'd kind of be retconning this part a bit. In my reimagined version of the scenario, Sonon would have his memories rewritten by Shelke to believe he's an ex-SOLDIER now Deepground member. Using deception, they'd slip him in among the new recruits.

I'm assuming they'd have a way of checking. I know the Tsviet's plan hinged on a defective chip, but we never see how they know the player character has one before they start manipulating them, so maybe they had a way of influencing that too.

Actually we do.

Shelke is capable of backdoor hacking the Patricia supercomputer and creating a faulty chip installation in the DG playable character. That's how they started their scheme. So if Nero is somehow able to... jury-rig a DG candidate out of a corpse and just use that... Why go through the scam in the first place? He'd just hide the Sonon drone in his darkness, pop it out when the time is right and let it shoot/distract Restrictor so Weiss could kill him. That just kills the entire necessity of the DG Online story right there.

 

[Odysseus]

Right, but some people apparently do think he's still alive for some reason.

And I'm just confused. Where did that perception even come from? He literally died, unambiguously, on screen. In front of Yuffie.

I think Zack as given people trust issues. That, and we're all used to twists so we keep trying to guess them preemptively. See: the whole "Will Aerith Live?" thread. Other than that, the way Nero carries him into the dark is kinda weird I guess.

And to your example, the online multiplayer mode of DC has a main character, so why would the writers suddenly substitute them with random Wutai ninja wingman?

Furthering the twist thing, I was thinking if they chose to incorporate the Online mode story into the Remake somehow (DLC story?) it'd be more compelling if it turned out the MC was someone we knew. It'd create a stronger connection to the other parts of the FF7 story. In a broader sense, it'd give Sonon more of a point beyond being Yuffie's partner briefly. If my hypothetical revival of the story were to happen, I doubt character creation would be a part of it, or online fights between players, as First SOLDIER has that market covered now.

They didn't do anything like that with Before Crisis and Cissnei, nor have they rewound their previous Compilation work. So why start with something as extremely obscure and unnecessary as DC Online with Sonon?

See above for "why Sonon", but as for why revise the obscure DoC online mode story like this when they didn't do anything like it before, well, it's because it is so obscure. Outside of Youtube rips, nobody anywhere actually has access to any of it anymore. So why not reimagine the story a bit for a new audience? I'm not even saying they'd completely change things, just tweak it a bit.

iunno. In my made up thing here, they're just using Sonon because he was capable of beating up Nero, which the rank and file couldn't do probably. He's tough. The fake SOLDIER backstory would help him blend in and make him easy to manipulate.

Actually we do.

Shelke is capable of backdoor hacking the Patricia supercomputer and creating a faulty chip installation in the DG playable character. That's how they started their scheme.

Oh, that is basically what I thought. That works fine lol.

So if Nero is somehow able to... jury-rig a DG candidate out of a corpse and just use that... Why go through the scam in the first place? He'd just hide the Sonon drone in his darkness, pop it out when the time is right and let it shoot/distract Restrictor so Weiss could kill him. That just kills the entire necessity of the DG Online story right there.

You're probably right about that. Maybe you can't keep things in darkness for too long or they get Norted lol. Really though, the excuse would be "keeping him in the corrupted lifestream too long would be bad so they couldn't." That's the sort of thing you just handwave to make the story work.

 

[Leafonthebreeze]

I voted alive but my actual thoughts are somewhere between "alive" and "ghost", just not a lifestream one. I reckon Nero/deepground are gonna use the image/body of sonon to fuck with Yuffie. That death scene had "this character is coming back wrong flags allll over it. We didn't see him dissolve into lifestream, his corpse was very conspicuously taken away by Nero.

I have a couple vague concepts of how they'll do it, but nothing firm. Either we'll meet him and he'll seem fine but try to steer the party into some kind of trap, something he says or does will give him away and we'll have to fight him, or he'll just get paraded out as a boss fight at some point with no actual character interaction.

Could be wrong but that death scene did not look at all final to me.

 

[Shademp]

The way Nero holds Sonon's face when taking him into the darkness is what gives me the vibes of Sonon coming back as a puppet. It could just be a creepy exit for the sake of creepiness but my guts tell me that the scene is trying to bring attention to the terrifying possibility of Sonon having his identity taken and reshapen.

 

[cold_spirit]

From an asset/development perspective, they wouldn't pour so many resources into a party member just to leave him after a 4 hour expansion. He'll be back. Nero will have done something to him. And Yuffie will react.

 

[Tetsujin]

I think we'll see him again. He's probably gonna come back...wrong, though

 

[Keveh Kins]

His Force ghost will appear to Yuffie and the others at the end, beside Aerith and Zack. But his model will have been redesigned to match the features of a younger mocap actor by the time the last instalment comes out.

This retconned design will be the source of much consternation amongst the hardcore fandom. Casual players will ask 'Who's that guy?' as they'll have long since forgotten the DLC episode at that point. Mods reinserting his original model in the scene will be highly popular.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Guys, it’s not real life…if they want Sonon back for whatever reason and in whatever capacity, they’ll just do it. We can postulate all we want about what works/doesn’t work on a narrative or technical level, and it won’t matter one single bit because the devs can play with their own rules as much as they like.

Personally, I thought Sonon was an alright character. Nothing too special, but pretty decent. I’m not particularly leaning hard in any direction, only that the way his body was taken away leads me to think there might be something but Lord knows what, at this point.

 

[BioTeach]

Agreed. Sonon didn't just die. They made an effort to show Nero taking him (whether he was still barely alive at that point or just a body, Nero obviously had a reason for doing so). Honestly my head canon has been exactly the same as Odys on this topic so no need for me to be repetitive here.

 

[Shademp]

Another thing to remember: Square's track record of keeping dead FF7 characters dead only gets worse with time.

 

[Eerie]

Yeah to me it could go either way, but Sonon coming back as a thing manipulated/perverted by Nero to have something going on for her later on in the game (other than Wutai and her father, obviously), would be very easy to do. And no one will be truly shocked, I think.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Another thing to remember: Square's track record of keeping dead FF7 characters dead only gets worse with time.

Wait, citation needed here. I'd love to know who this applies to aside from Zack and/or Biggs, which I think are two instances clearly meant to be more of a set up for something more than just them being "alive," happily ever after.

The Compilation is littered with the corpses of characters that never made it past their own end games. Not sure how that's changed with time.

I guess Sonon could be used again for something else... Just like any character could be. But when the story clearly shows a character being stabbed in the heart and throughout their chest while being corroded by a substance we know kills living creatures trapped inside it, it just seems very unlikely. Especially when there's no discernable "hook" or hinting at something later. A trick these writers do 100% of the time. They make it painfully obvious when a character is a "big deal" and will show up again. There's no real surprise in that regard.

In light of the scene being called Sonon's Last Moments, Nero being a creepy monster with his body just feels like a killer admiring the trophy of their latest hunt. Nero isn't Hojo, and stagnant Lifestream doesn't really confer necromancer abilities, either.

 

[Shademp]

Characters presumed dead in OG FF7 who later returned, even before Remake showed up:
- Tseng
- Rufus
- Don Corneo
- Sephiroth
- Hojo

These examples are egregious enough to me that I consider character-survival to be a meme and that the survival of Zack and Biggs (and potentially other characters) is yet another extension of this trend, regardless of how short-lived their extended life ends up being.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Eh, that's not really "with time." For one, Tseng never died. He confirmed his own survival if you simply talked to him.

Sephiroth is Sephiroth, the main villain of the series. He didn't stay dead in FFVII either, and him being able to transcend death via Jenova cells is sorta par for course, especially since he's the villain and subverting the laws of life is his thing.

As for Hojo, he did die. What's fought in DC is the digital back up of his consciousness that hijacks Weiss's body, that ultimately ends up overwritten/erased. He's no more alive than Lucrecia's fragments are alive in Shelke, which influence her actions.

That leaves Rufus, who was surprisingly confirmed to have survived in 2004 with Advent Children, yes. Don Corneo surviving his fall from Da Chao was a surprise too for TKaA novel.

But, that's only two real instances of mortal characters cheating death and living. That's not really a "trend" when you look at all the others that are dead and buried throughout the Compilation. Sonon is definitely no Rufus, and Don Corneo is clearly a comedic character who was used for a reason in Evan's story. Side characters like Sonon die all the time in FFVII's world, like in Crisis Core, DC, BC, etc.

 

[Odysseus]

As much as I'm fond of the scenario I proposed earlier, Sonon appearing again to confront the party, Yuffie in particular, seems more likely. I've been imagining for a while now that the remake's version of Wutai will probably be extremely different from what we got originally, so him showing back up to hunt the party as a brainwashed assassin type character there could be a possibility. I don't think Nero will appear again directly unless it becomes very clear that the remake is separate from the compilation's timeline, since the plausible deniability of Yuffie's DLC episode not contradicting Dirge would go out the window if the whole party saw him lol.

 

[LNK]

I was just talking about this in the predictions thread, and I wanted to know what the community makes of this as a whole. Do you think Sonon is dead and will not pop up again in the remake, or do you think he might actually return in some way? That final scene with him and Nero in Intergrade is interesting...

I think he's dead, but I'm open to them bringing him back as a ravus-esque daemon to battle in the Wutai section. As long as it makes sense within the story.

 

[LNK]

Eh, that's not really "with time." For one, Tseng never died. He confirmed his own survival if you simply talked to him.

Sephiroth is Sephiroth, the main villain of the series. He didn't stay dead in FFVII either, and him being able to transcend death via Jenova cells is sorta par for course, especially since he's the villain and subverting the laws of life is his thing.

As for Hojo, he did die. What's fought in DC is the digital back up of his consciousness that hijacks Weiss's body, that ultimately ends up overwritten/erased. He's no more alive than Lucrecia's fragments are alive in Shelke, which influence her actions.

That leaves Rufus, who was surprisingly confirmed to have survived in 2004 with Advent Children, yes. Don Corneo surviving his fall from Da Chao was a surprise too for TKaA novel.

But, that's only two real instances of mortal characters cheating death and living. That's not really a "trend" when you look at all the others that are dead and buried throughout the Compilation. Sonon is definitely no Rufus, and Don Corneo is clearly a comedic character who was used for a reason in Evan's story. Side characters like Sonon die all the time in FFVII's world, like in Crisis Core, DC, BC, etc.

Barret was also "killed," only to be brought back after the battle with Jenova

we know kills living creatures trapped inside it

Do we know that based on Remake, or is it based on DoC?

 

[Clement Rage]

I hope not, but if it's one thing these creators can't resist, it's pointless cameos.

He'll at least be mentioned when they get to Wutai, maybe flashbacks.

DG's online mode happened at least four times canonically, right. They had to replace four restrictors, so they had to pull that scam 4 times. Sonon could theoretically be one of the other ones that happened offscreen.

Nero explains in Dirge that the darkness absorbs and consumes anything not born from it. Buuut in Intergrade it was more of a tentacle monster, so who knows.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Barret was also "killed," only to be brought back after the battle with Jenova

He didn't die. He was saved by the Whispers using cure magic. It's not like we thought he legitimately was gone for good, like Rufus Shinra taking Diamond Weapon's Diamond Flash and being blown up inside the Shinra Building.

Do we know that based on Remake, or is it based on DoC?

Both. We see Nero's darkness literally dissolve and vaporize DG SOLDIERs right in front of our eyes.

Nero explains in Dirge that the darkness absorbs and consumes anything not born from it. Buuut in Intergrade it was more of a tentacle monster, so who knows.

Wouldn't be much of a fight if Nero's darkness legit just instantly annihilated you on contact, lol. Nero wasn't absorbing you into the darkness that fight. So it's not insta-death.

Basically, being sent into Nero's darkness is akin to being thrown inside Vanilla Ice's Stand, Cream.

 

[ForceStealer]

But, that's only two real instances of mortal characters cheating death and living

+ Biggs, and Zack. And probably Jessie and Wedge, frankly.
And Hojo still counts, even if it was a technicality. He continued to play an active role in the story under his own agency.

I doubt Sonon'll be back all hunky-dory, but we'll see him again. Even if as Nero's meat puppet.