SPOILERS Is this the same story as the original?

[Roundhouse]

Look, we all can agree that the remake has a few differences to the original game. But we were talking on the Discord and the question came up -- is this the same story, really? Are the changes so significant that you view this as a different story?

Personally, I'm starting to consider this to be the case. Sephiroth and Aerith's characters have changed significantly, we have the whole whisper and destiny stuff, and we even have a potentially massive shift in the Zack issue. Part 2 will clarify things, but I was curious as to what you all think about this and how you view this stuff.

 

[Prism]

The story beats of the majority of the game are very similar, if not identical in many cases. We won’t know until Part 2 if the divergences get more serious, specifically with the Zack and “New Destiny” type stuff...the potential there for a new plot are huge, and could go either way.

Otherwise, the altered tone may make it feel more different than it actually is. (Particularly in Wall Market and all of its added storylines)
But above everything else, most of the differences come through the expansions of content. But if the overall structure is the same, is it really all that different?

 

[Wol]

No, this is Nomura's wet dream, a project in which the compilation happens all at once through the use of KH tropes.

This is going to be a crazy, and long, ride.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Is this the same story as FFVII or is it radically, fundamentally different?

S-E: Yes.

 

[looneymoon]

yes and no.

No, this isn't the same story at the original FFVII released in '97.

Yes, because it is part of the long form story of The Compilation of FF7 - which began with the original FF7, and it still ongoing.

 

[Odysseus]

I don't think we can know for certain until later. There have been some radical alterations to the plot with the introduction of new elements like the whispers, yes, but as has been mentioned, a good majority of part 1 has the exact same plot. It's really up to part 2 and beyond for this to become clearer. Obviously some people will say "no" right now because they like to whine they didn't like how the game ended and see it as a huge betrayal of the original, but when you really look at it the characters are in the same position they were in the original (give or take killing destiny.)
Cloud realizes that Sephiroth is alive and wants to go beat him up before he can cause more trouble, this is true at the end of the remake as well as the end of the Midgar portion of the original.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

You can never step into the same river twice.

 

[Wol]

Well the whispers were an active force through most of the game, so they made it sure the script was followed, so the game remained faithful to the original most of the time. But now...

 

[Makoeyes987]

You can never step into the same Lifestream twice.

Fixed that for you.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

... the characters are in the same position they were in the original (give or take killing destiny.)

It's pretty much just like that subplot of "Titanic REMAKE" where Jack received vague info from his future self that allowed the captain to avoid the ship hitting the iceberg. At that point, we didn't yet know that a stray Romulan plasma torpedo would enter a temporal vortex and sink the ship sixteen hours later anyway, shortly after another few rounds of sexy times resulted in Jack and Rose conceiving -- but at that moment of either hitting or avoiding the iceberg, the characters were in much the same place, give or take an alternate lineage.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Technically he's in the same position tho.

Just cause he's in the same position operating differently due to outside circumstances which ultimately led to the same result, doesn't change that fact to his actual fundamental character. He's just portrayed in a context separate than his original portrayal in the previous untouched context. And we don't actually know if any sort of alternate lineage exists or not.

That's speculation.

 

[Theozilla]

I consider it basically the same story in same way I would consider the original King Kong film and its two remakes the same story (heck I would say the FFVII Remake hews more to its original source overall so far than the King Kong remakes hew to the original film).

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Is it the same story told differently?
What elements would have to change before it was no longer the same story? Sephiroth appears to be at different stage in his arc but he's still the same character; Aerith likewise. I don't know whether that's because RemakeAerith is Aerith from further along in the timeline, or because the creators decided to give her more prescience and powers this time around. The setting is the same, the plot is pretty much the same so far, with minor deviations that don't really make a difference. Avalanche is a much bigger organisation this time around and seem to still be in alliance with Rufus, but the plot ghosts don't seem bothered about that.
IMHO, people are reading way more into the changes than were intended. I don't think they're coherent with each other, though I respect the efforts fans have made to reconcile them and construct a coherent overarching structure. A text can mean whatever it means to you.

 

[Torrie]

A slight digression: I'm currently reading some fanfic where the world of Gaia is consumed by Jenova to such extent that no one is left alive except Aerith. She casts a spell which unwinds the time the moment she dies from Sephiroth's hands so that she could defeat him in another timeline. Time always reverts all the way back to the Nibelheim incident because... reasons and spoiler territory, but Aerith lives again and again and again retaining almost all the memories from the previous lives.

Obviously, the author was inspired by the Remake, and I wish the plot in the Remake could play out the same way, BUT every time I try to look beyond the cliffhangers we're left with, I get headaches, so I prefer not to, and wait patiently.

You know nothing, Jon Snow FF fans — that's the impression I have at the moment, so I can't claim it to be either the same story or a different one.

 

[Glaurung]

We will never know until Part 2 is released. Nomura has people scanning the internet and reading all the theories from fans so he can come up with a plot almost no one expected (this is the hill I will die on, mostly because it's something I'd do if I were in that position )

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Why?
What one needs is a good plot, not a completely unpredictable plot. With tens of thousands of people guessing, somebody's going to get it right.

 

[Odysseus]

Creators seem to have this obsession with being "smarter" than their fans, so they want to avoid doing things that the fans have guessed at. That's not even a theory, I've seen several creators basically say just that. All it ever leads to is clunky story-telling though, since the natural progression of things isn't followed. I hope The VIIR team isn't that stupid.

 

[Roundhouse]

Is it the same story told differently?
What elements would have to change before it was no longer the same story?.

This is a really interesting question.

As for Sephiroth, I dunno if it's just him at another stage of his arc. The whole Edge of Creation stuff feels like something that is completely new. (In fact didn't the Ultimania say something like 'this is a Sephiroth we have never seen before'? I'm not sure, I seem to remember something like that floating around.)

Aerith is even more of a change. If she knows things before she should (which seems almost confirmed at this point), it alters her whole attitude to whatever is going on. As some note, she seems like a much more mysterious character this time, because we're still not quite sure what is going on with her and how she views the other characters around her. We also get the odd 'don't fall in love with me' thing...

I forgot who it was (maybe Obsidian? Chip?) who broke down the OG and P1 into themes, and found how it differed in regard to this whole destiny thing, which seems like a big deal in the remake. The dev comments don't help us much here, because they appear to contradict the message that they deliberately laid out at the very end of P1.

As some of you have said, what it really comes down to is that we need to wait for P2 to see how this unfolds and evaluate it properly...but I do get the sense, even from just P1, that we are moving into a different territory here, and that we -need- to, because of the significant new character details. At the moment it feels like a remix of the OG with more than one hint at a more serious shift away from it...

 

[Wol]

Creators seem to have this obsession with being "smarter" than their fans, so they want to avoid doing things that the fans have guessed at. That's not even a theory, I've seen several creators basically say just that. All it ever leads to is clunky story-telling though, since the natural progression of things isn't followed. I hope The VIIR team isn't that stupid.

This and to appeal to the twitter fandom, making everything seemingly in the realm of possibility through multiple alternate x2 + days DARKNEZZ timelines, worlds, and universes..

Goddamit fuck KH lol

 

[Clement Rage]

That is the question, isn't it? I don't think we'll know until part 2.

Most creator interviews I've seen talk about deliberately not looking at fandom speculation. For the rest, I blame snide internet critic culture.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

If I look at the thrust of the plot present in the OG by the time the gang leaves Midgar vs in the Remake... it's a rather different plot at this point.

The OG very much feels like a standard "stop bad guy from destroying the Planet" kind of plot by this point. It also has shades of people learning "who" and "what" they are, but no one actually knows that for sure yet. And it is going to take quite a bit of time for people to learn that, so the "learning" part is in the forefront rather than the "coping/dealing" with that info.

The Remake feels like it's more a "defy your destiny" kind of plot. Yes, stopping the bad guy from destorying the Planet is still there... but it's now got the added complication of "stop him in a different way than how it was done last time". It feels less about if the bad guy can be stopped (people who played the OG know this happened already) and more about how the bad guy will be stopped (we know the way he was stopped in the OG wasn't ideal now). We also have at least one person who knows "what" she is already and is more... coping with that knowledge rather that learning about "what" she is from scratch. In general, the people who are learning "who" and "what" they are know a lot more about themseles compared to the OG, so the focus has shifted from "learning" about that to "coping/dealing" with that knowledge for more of the plot instead.

It leads to several of the scenes feeling different since the "why" of the scene has shifted to something different in the Remake verses what it was in the OG.

I think how much people with think the Remake has "changed" the story of the OG will depend on what actually makes a "story" for them. If what makes a story is a general order of events, than the Remake probably hasn't changed the story of the OG all that much. If the thing that makes a "story" is the purpose or "why" of events, then the Remake's story is probably rather different from the OG's.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I think how much people with think the Remake has "changed" the story of the OG will depend on what actually makes a "story" for them. If what makes a story is a general order of events, than the Remake probably hasn't changed the story of the OG all that much. If the thing that makes a "story" is the purpose or "why" of events, then the Remake's story is probably rather different from the OG's.

That's a great point. There is a worthwhile distinction between an encyclopedic accounting of a sequence of events rather than a curated unfolding of those events as a narrative.

I imagine the significance of that nuanced contrast of "The Story Is What Happened" against "The Storytelling Is Part of the Story" isn't always immediately apparent, even for folks for whom that very distinction will be -- or already has become -- the crux of their disappointment with or trepidation about the remake.

It's pretty much just like that subplot of "Titanic REMAKE" where Jack received vague info from his future self that allowed the captain to avoid the ship hitting the iceberg. At that point, we didn't yet know that a stray Romulan plasma torpedo would enter a temporal vortex and sink the ship sixteen hours later anyway, shortly after another few rounds of sexy times resulted in Jack and Rose conceiving -- but at that moment of either hitting or avoiding the iceberg, the characters were in much the same place, give or take an alternate lineage.

...

And we don't actually know if any sort of alternate lineage exists or not.

That's speculation.

... I didn't realize anyone had actually seen that movie.

... How high were you?

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I imagine the significance of that nuanced contrast of "The Story Is What Happened" against "The Storytelling Is Part of the Story" isn't always immediately apparent, even for folks for whom that very distinction will be -- or already has become -- the crux of their disappointment with or trepidation about the remake.

I've read enough works of literature/movies/games that... the direction a plot goes in has stopped being the main reason I enjoy storytelling. My reaction towards most "order of events" is "oh, we're at this part now" or "the author is using that take on this trope". "What happens" is... less important in my mind than "how was the story told". In part because a good storytelling can make the most straightforward plot be entertaining to read (over and over at that!)... while bad storytelling can make an interesting set of events boring to read about.

So I've gotten a lot more interested in "how" storytelling happens... and that tends to stick out even more when I already have a good idea of where the story is going. Which is kinda the case for Remake.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

You can never step into the same river twice.

This is overwhelmingly the best possible answer to the thread's question.

There is a LOT about the spiritual & existential perspectives explored in Final Fantasy VII that are centered around these philosophical themes, especially when you're thinking about the concept of wanting to be reunited with loved ones you've lost. It's at the core of Reunion and The Promised Land among many other things, and I just wanted to shine a spotlight on it for how much I love the direct simplicity & depth of the answer.



X

 

[cold_spirit]

For me, Remake isn't just different in "what" happens and "how" it happens, but also in how I interact with it. For that reason they're separate stories to me. With the OG, I approach it with a mixture of nostalgia and intellectual analysis. With Remake, I'm swept up in excitement and am emotionally compelled by the characters. I think it's intentional that both stories exist independently, yet also satisfy fan demand for a remake.