Even though It's never quite explicitly stated whether Hojo or Vincent was his son I felt like?
Though of course they refer to him as Hojo's son simply because I imagine Lucrecia was in a relationship with him at the time and Hojo choose to experiment on him, I always figured that Lucrecia could have easily lied to Hojo and maybe even not even told Vincent and could have conceived Sephiroth in a throw of passion or something (I guess it would be considered an affair or cheating?) since they both obviously liked each other and not only that but Hojo is not really all that attractive or strapping I imagine, not to mention kind of crazy and evil. Vincent and Sephiroth both also both obviously resemble each other as well and have similar personalities...
I wonder if this was intended or not, and hinted at or simply a storyline that was toyed with and never really fully elaborated on much further and left on the cutting room floor and thus is more likely to explain what resulting existence or possibly of this idea.
I think fans would like Vincent to be Sephiroth's father because:
- it would multiply the enjoyable angst by a factor of about a billion
- it would make Lucrecia look even worse
- Vincent is cool and Sephiroth is cool, whereas Hojo is uncool and we all know cool is genetic.
I'm pretty sure it IS actually canon that Hojo is Sephiroth's father.
Yes, but Lucretia and Vincent both had feelings for each other and even though it's stated that Hojo is Sephiroth's father (like I mentioned) still does not completely rule out the possibility that Lucrecia lied to Hojo for some aforementioned reason. I thought that perhaps it was hinted at that perhaps Hojo was perhaps abusive and Lucrecia herself loved Vincent more but did not want to admit this to Hojo because she was afraid of him, but he deduced this on his own behalf and thus is the reason why he tried to kill Vincent and then experimented on Sephiroth while he was in the womb and had no remorse in doing so. Also, it would simply make Sephiroth more of a tragic and even sympathetic character. Well, I guess he already is in a way, he was unfairly against his will experimented on which made me evil before he was even born.
Anyway, the picture of Vincent in front of a fire is vaguely reminiscent of Sephiroth in Niebelhelm and also, even though they are anime characters, their faces all differ a bit in how they are designed. Another coincidence that Sephiroth and Vincent both look very similar. They have the same hair, eye shape, nose, and face shape and even lips.
So how could that all be a coincidence? like I said earlier, maybe the writer never really fully decided on whether he was or not and it was kind of a plot line that was left on the cutting room floor and never made officially cannon, or even decided on definitively.
That is a great story, but it belongs to the realm of headcanon and fanfiction - and has indeed been written as a fanfic more than once.
Hojo makes it pretty clear in the game that he is helping Sephiroth at least partly because he believes Sephiroth is his son. And he doesn't need an excuse to experiment on humans. And he thought he was doing the unborn baby a favour, gifting it with the powers of the Cetra. Sephiroth's gravity-devying fringe is, I think, a leftover from the early days of the game planning, when he and Aerith were supposed to be brother and sister. I don't think he particularly looks like Vincent - it's just that they both look like generic anime pretty boys.
I think the argument over how similar Sephiroth looks to Vincent vs Hojo would be a compelling one if this were all set in real life, lol, but in the context of the game, I'm certain that Hojo only looks the way he looks because of the role he plays. He's the mad scientist. This is a video game. He must look the part. It's inconsequential to his relationship with Sephiroth.
The developers could have easily had decided that, say, Dio (bear with me) was actually Sephiroth's father, but his design probably would have remained the same. Why? Because he's the flamboyant, flashy owner of the even flashier Gold Saucer. And it's a video game. He must look the part.
Nah sayin'????
Sephiroth and Vincent both have a generic looking bishie face, yes, but so does Cloud, Reno, Rufus, and several other characters featured in the Compilation. That doesn't make them all family.
I think the argument over how similar Sephiroth looks to Vincent vs Hojo would be a compelling one if this were all set in real life, lol, but in the context of the game, I'm certain that Hojo only looks the way he looks because of the role he plays. He's the mad scientist. This is a video game. He must look the part. It's inconsequential to his relationship with Sephiroth.
The developers could have easily had decided that, say, Dio (bear with me) was actually Sephiroth's father, but his design probably would have remained the same. Why? Because he's the flamboyant, flashy owner of the even flashier Gold Saucer. And it's a video game. He must look the part.
Nah sayin'????
Sephiroth and Vincent both have a generic looking bishie face, yes, but so does Cloud, Reno, Rufus, and several other characters featured in the Compilation. That doesn't make them all family.
But don't you know that Cloud and Rufus are secretly half-brothers? Possibly even full-brothers? It's so much more dramatic that way. They're both blond so they must be related. Elena might be related to them as well. Cloud's mother is actually President Shinra's long lost wife; she fled from her abusive marriage to the backwater anonymity of Nibelheim, taking her younger son with her and leaving the older one (his father's favourite) to be raised as the ShinRa heir. Sephiroth actually burned Nibelheim on Shinra's orders so that the President could hush up the scandal of his wife deserting him.
^laughing out loud because this fanon is too real xD
This actually illustrates the great thing about fanfiction in general, methinks: it gives fans a medium to speculate on the less developed aspects of a story in a fun and entertaining way. It's like a grand conversation that happens between the fans. What if so and so was related to so and so? What if such and such happened to make this beloved character act this way? And so on.
It all can be very fun to partake in and fantastic to read about (COUGH when handled by the right authors COUGH) but at the end of the day, it's still just speculative fanon and should never be confused for actual canon, even if the fanon happens to make an awful lot of sense.
"How about if we make them brother and sister?"
"Nah, it's been done. Luke'n'Leia."
"OK, well how about we make them like step-brother and sister because they share the same DNA? Because she's a Cetra and he's got Cetra DNA?"
"How about we make the Cetra DNA-donor fake as well and actually an alien - and then he murders her?"
"Love it!"
"How about if we make them brother and sister?"
"Nah, it's been done. Luke'n'Leia."
"OK, well how about we make them like step-brother and sister because they share the same DNA? Because she's a Cetra and he's got Cetra DNA?"
"How about we make the Cetra DNA-donor fake as well and actually an alien - and then he murders her?"
"Love it!"
I still think the lovers idea could have worked, if they didn't think of Zack. Heck, there was concept art of Sephiroth and Aerith embracing each other intimately.
I think the argument over how similar Sephiroth looks to Vincent vs Hojo would be a compelling one if this were all set in real life, lol, but in the context of the game, I'm certain that Hojo only looks the way he looks because of the role he plays. He's the mad scientist. This is a video game. He must look the part. It's inconsequential to his relationship with Sephiroth.
The developers could have easily had decided that, say, Dio (bear with me) was actually Sephiroth's father, but his design probably would have remained the same. Why? Because he's the flamboyant, flashy owner of the even flashier Gold Saucer. And it's a video game. He must look the part.
Nah sayin'????
Sephiroth and Vincent both have a generic looking bishie face, yes, but so does Cloud, Reno, Rufus, and several other characters featured in the Compilation. That doesn't make them all family.
I would say that it's more your inability to differentiate between facial characteristics between them in Advent Children, and like I have previously stated, due to the art style, they of course resemble each other much more then perhaps attempts at being life-like but as that stands Sephiroth and Vincent practically have the same face.
But of course this is not what the topic is about, it's about whether or not individuals have any right to question authority, obviously. Either way, it's very obviously not pure speculation as I believe it is quite plausible and within the realm of reason, though of course either way I suppose such merits are subjective.
But of course my main points were ignored, but it was merely more then "bangs" but their entire features, faces. Sephiroth does not look all too similar to Hojo on comparison.
Well I mean one, this is like arguing fact versus fiction, but "father" can mean many things, and not always indicative of blood relation, and in fact can also simply be a term of endearment. I mean, even if he is his biological father, he at times would be better suited to calling him his "Franken-Hojo" or something, which their relationship isn't much far removed from.
Though obviously, we are arguing some weird notion of authority and obedience here. Which you know, cool, coo, I dig.
OMFG here, their faces are freaking identical almost. Their eyes are shaped the same way, their noses are the same (though it's not as apparent in this photo, their lips are shaped the same way (though Sephiroth's mouth is a bit wider I think) also their faces are shaped the same but again Sephiroth's face is a bit long I think.
example of UNLIKENESS, of the other characters,
(I think clouds eyes are a bit bigger, and less almond shaped and also there's just slight variations
on his face shape and everything. The differences between Aerith and Tifa are really obvious. Aerith's eyes are way different ( I think bigger?, but they are just shaped way differently whilst Tifa looks more typically oriental. Aerith's nose is bigger and more broad, straight etc)
Another weird ting I forgot to mention, but Vincent is found and discovered IN the basement of the nibelheim mansion where Cloud and Zack went were experimented on and Sephiroth went bad. I suppose it's where Hojo liked to hide a lot of things, but I'm sure most of Shinra knew of his experiments, plus it just seems like another strange coincidence.
Nah seriously Square are fucking shit at making distinct facetypes, other than Barret, Cid and maybe Rude they aaaaaaall look like they're related. And the same goes for some of the characters in FFX and FFXIII. It's mainly the clothes and hairstyles that define them. They may as well be Lego!
Moonskull, I'm sorry if you feel like your points aren't being listened to. For what it's worth, arguments are well-reasoned and your image comparisons are useful in backing up your claim. I think the reason you're seeing such resistance is because (at least for my part) this debate is 20 years old. It's not that we're not listening, it's that for most of us, you're not telling us anything new.
When I was in high school I believed it so hard, both for the reasons you mention and the reasons Lic mentions in her first response. I hoped that DoC would provide some more concrete evidence one way or the other, but it did jack squat. It gave us a tree for them to sit under and a plot involving Vinnie's dad and Lucrecia, which only served to muddy the waters. It's obvious by DoC's presentation that Square either doesn't care about this theory or doesn't even know it exists, which is the most damning evidence against it.
I would say that it's more your inability to differentiate between facial characteristics between them in Advent Children, and like I have previously stated, due to the art style, they of course resemble each other much more then perhaps attempts at being life-like but as that stands Sephiroth and Vincent practically have the same face.
Haha, nah, I can tell the characters apart. Mayhaps "generic bishie face" was a poor choice of words. My point was that nearly all the FF Boys are modeled after the same impossibly pretty standard of narrow chins, high cheekbones, aristocratic noses, and fair-skinned faces. But lemme humour you a bit with the reasoning that "Sephiroth and Vincent have similar enough faces to be related."
So, what, should we now consider that Daddy ShinRa was the literal daddy (which would make for hella drama considering Sephiroth kills him, amirite)? Should we consider that maybe Sephiroth knew something we didn't and that's actually why he killed him?! While we're at it, why not speculate that Daddy ShinRa also got Cloud's mum pregnant and Cloud and Sephiroth are literally brothers?
This is part of the reason the way that these characters look is not damning evidence for me. The evidence should be less dependent on looks and more on questions that we can ask ourselves and prove within the canon, like:
Do we have irrefutable proof that Vincent impregnated Lucrecia?
If so, do we have irrefutable proof that Lucrecia carried this child to term?
If so, do we have irrefutable proof that this child is Sephiroth?
Also side rant: but the "looks" argument also annoys me because I look fucking nothing like my parents, but rest assured they are my parents. Also, plain looking people can have beautiful looking children. Also, genetics is a funny thing etc.
But of course this is not what the topic is about, it's about whether or not individuals have any right to question authority, obviously. Either way, it's very obviously not pure speculation as I believe it is quite plausible and within the realm of reason, though of course either way I suppose such merits are subjective.
Okay, but you do realise that we can "challenge" this authority (I'm assuming you mean Square?) all we want with all the damning evidence in the world, but until the folks over at Square provide irrefutable proof within their own canon that Vincent is Sephiroth's father and thus turning it into "Word of God," our speculation will remain speculative, no matter how plausible.
Plausibility =/= Definite Proof
If the Remake is released and it is revealed that Square has reworked the canon so that Vincent is irrefutably Sephiroth's father, then you'll have all the right to say, "See? I told you so. This is what they've been aiming at all along." BUT UNTIL THAT DAY HAPPENS, your fanon will only ever be a damned convincing head canon at best. This is especially true when you consider that, as Mr. Ite pointed out, the game dialogue
Hojo: Quit asking me why, you moron. Hmm... actually, you might be cut out to be a scientist. Energy level is at...... 83%. It's taking too long. My son is in need of power and help. ...That's the only reason.
Cloud: ...your son?
Hojo: Ha, ha, ha... Although he doesn't know. Ha, ha, ha... HA, HA, HA...!! What will Sephiroth think when he finds out I'm his father? Always looking down on me like that. HA, HA, HA...!!
Cloud: Sephiroth is your son?
Hojo: Ha, ha, ha... I offered the woman with my child to Professor Gast's Jenova Project. When Sephiroth was still in the womb, we took the cells of Jenova... HA, HA, HA!!
Now you can argue that Hojo was lying, but Square has since done little to nothing to suggest that he was, so I personally don't really see the point in insisting it could be canon...
...when you can just read/write a fanfic about it and get your kicks there.
