Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge's Roles in the Remake Thread

[Jairus]

Thanks. That's just what SE wrote about him, hehe.

 

[Jairus]

Tres, you didn't have to move my post. It was concept art/tweet-related, and people were liking it. There were no complaints in it, either. Or about it. By anyone.

 

[Rydeen]

Because it wasn’t official. And does it really matter where it is?

 

[Jairus]

Technically it was because the art and descriptions came from official sources. All I did was put them in separate tweets instead of the single one they released. And it does matter, because moving inoffensive posts about them seems to be saying that those characters can't be talked about on this board at all except in one or two preapproved places.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Tres, you didn't have to move my post.

I didn't.

 

[Jairus]

Sorry, I thought it was you. Well, whoever it was didn't need to. I wasn't being disparaging to anyone or putting SE down.

 

[lithiumkatana17]

Technically it was because the art and descriptions came from official sources. All I did was put them in separate tweets instead of the single one they released. And it does matter, because moving inoffensive posts about them seems to be saying that those characters can't be talked about on this board at all except in one or two preapproved places.

Technically, it's because you have an agenda with pushing Jessie's character into every discussion, most especially when it's not called for.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with your love for a beloved NPC and exercising your creativity; I love that, I encourage that (god knows most of my favorite characters have always been NPCs)--

BUT let's not pretend that this wasn't a subtle attempt at pushing Jessie into our faces under the guise of AVALANCHE-themed posts in the wake of other character media Square Enix has released today. Heaven forbid we take the spotlight off of a character who isn't going to make it past the first installment.

We know who Jessie and the rest of AVALANCHE are. We've been seeing their models plastered everywhere for the past 3-4 years while we've waited for SE to finish developing the game. Let us squeal over these other characters without having to Jessie shoved in front of our faces, again.

 

[Jairus]

No, it was for all three. I meant exactly what I said. And I commented on the new renders, too. I'm not saying you don't know who they are. I was just doing what SE has continually refused to do - highlighting them as separate characters, individually, instead of always lumping them together in a group like they do. There are plenty of threads on this board that I don't even enter, let alone mention anything about her or the trio. So it's hardly every discussion.

And the renders for Avalanche haven't been out for 3-4 years. They only released them on the US twitter barely a week ago, and they've only been on the Japanese FF7R site for a few months at best.

 

[Rydeen]

I wasn't [...] putting SE down.

I was just doing what SE has continually refused to do

Now you are

Can we move this to your tantrum thread now?

 

[Jairus]

Ry, simply stating that they haven't done something isn't putting them down. And don't demean me by calling it a tantrum thread. You can make your point without doing that.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I like these, thanks!

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

And don't demean me by calling it a tantrum thread. You can make your point without doing that.

This is a fair point. Everyone, take heed of it immediately.

That being said, Jai, you could have avoided this by PMing me to ask why I (didn't) move your posts. =\ I'm not sure who did or why, but I would have gotten you the answers.

If there's anything else, PM me.

Everyone, back on topic.

 

[Jairus]

Fair enough, Tres. I should've thought of that. Sorry.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

You were VERY clearly warned about discussing this topic and this thread over in the Official Twitter thread.

I moved all of your posts.

I will continue to move all of your posts of this nature into this thread where they belong.

That being said, from this point on, I will ALSO be issuing you a warning for EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of them that I have to move from this point on.

Make sure that you think through what you're posting, and if you think that there is even a tiny remote hint of a possibility that it will get moved here – post it here instead and safe yourself the infraction.

This is not a matter of discussion any more.




X

 

[Jairus]

So you're saying that no one can discuss these characters anywhere else on the board but this one thread? They can never even be mentioned or shown? There was nothing deflating or demeaning in the posts you moved. Simply saying something that would've been nice for them to have done and then sharing what I did without asking for a discussion about it or debating anything. None of the other mods who were active at the time felt the need to move them, either.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

@Jairus – I'm going to be frank. Everyone here is completely and utterly exhausted of seeing your opinion on this topic elsewhere on the board.

This isn't because we're not interested in the Avalanche crew. Quite the opposite. We love the Avalanche crew and have a huge range of opinions about their utilization in the Remake. It's because your posts are obsessively one-note and offer nothing insightful or interesting, and you latch on to every opportunity to provide this perspective that it's made even mentioning the topic of the Avalanche trio anywhere a drag, because you'll inevitably show up and ruin everyone else's enjoyment and excitement by adding in your predictable disappointment about the same thing over and over again. Every possible response that anyone could give you whenever you mention the topic up only ever just gives way to you bringing up your obsession and complaining about the things we've heard from you a hundred thousand times already.


If you're making posts with the anticipation that no one will reply, you're not providing any content worth talking about. If you're not providing any content worth talking about, there's no reason for you to have made that post at all. If that's the case, then don't post because you're not adding anything to the thread.

If you still make the post anyway, you're doing one of two things: spamming or hoping for off-topic engagement, both of which will inevitably derail the thread. Both of those will also earn you a warning – so there's never any reason to be doing either of them.

Since it's obvious that you HAVE still been making posts, you're still seeding opportunities to bait out replies from someone addressing the subject of the Avalanche Trio with context that you've set. Then you respond to them about that, and steer things back towards what you were told not to discuss is that thread. Then when you get shut down, you just start playing dumb or acting the victim because you technically didn't start the conversation, so you feel like you can't be held responsible for just engaging with people when the topic came about naturally.

– But it didn't happen naturally. You're just starting this same pattern in different ways that you think you can get away with.

This has gotten to the point where people no longer even have the barest remote interest in seeing those posts – let alone in discussing this topic with you. No matter how much we genuinely like the Avalanche trio or have thoughts about how they're being used, discussing them just brings along with it the inevitable dread of needing to ignore or otherwise deal with your replies on the subject. It's become the inescapable wet blanket that worms its way into everything, brings down the mood, and causes people to just disengage. Then when you get ignored, you just get louder and more frustrated – and you manage to make everyone else's experience here worse because of it.

Because those posts of yours are now a predictable net negative on the community, you've been asked to stop being so self-focused and contain your opinions to a thread that was explicitly designated for you to do so. No one's silencing you. We gave you a dedicated and focused platform to share all of your thoughts and opinions on the matter. We have simply trimmed back the creeping tendrils from everywhere else, so that the community at large can enjoy these things without you instantly killing the mood.

The fact that this thread has become the equivalent of an echo chamber of you screaming into the void about a topic that you're desperate for others to listen to is no one's responsibility but your own. You feel like having your posts restricted here is caging your opinions, but this is a prison of your own design, because you refused to be self-reflective enough to create content worth other's time to engage. That no one wants to discuss it here with you isn't a problem at all – it is a reflection of the reality of the circumstances that you have created for yourself that we have been forced to contain in order to prevent them from continually affecting everyone else. If you post content worth replying to here, people will respond to it. If you're continually off-putting and loop all engagement back into your melancholic disappointments and harshing on everyone's good vibes, people will disengage.

However, rather than changing when failing at managing to champion the topic on your own, you started reaching back out again. It got to the point that, you were clearly and explicitly told not to discuss this topic within the Official Twitter thread – and couldn't even go a week without going right back down that same rabbit hole.

Being told that you're not allowed to talk about it in that thread is not the same as being unable to discuss it on the entire forum. Again – don't exaggerate and play at being the victim here as you're not being persecuted, and don't play dumb because you've done this too many times for that to be the case. You're now being reprimanded for continually and repeatedly not doing what was asked of you – but instead choosing to push the technicalities of those stated boundaries established in good faith in every possible way in order to keep engaging on this obsession of yours outside of this thread.

If you want this thread to be a place that's worth having conversations in it: Do it.

If you want to go elsewhere on the internet to air your grievances to any desperate audience you can find wherever they let you: Do it.

If you think that there is even a tiny remote hint of a possibility that I will see something you post and be forced to waste more of my time to move it here – post something different that is worth everyone else's time to engage with, make a related post about your thoughts within this thread instead, or just decide that the post wasn't important enough to make in the first place and do something else. If this is what it finally takes to make you think through your actions and learn how to be a member others welcome rather than begrudgingly tolerate, I'm more than glad to be the enforcer of you second-guessing everything you post on the board.

If you do not have the capacity to do that, you will receive a warning, and the post will be moved back to this thread. Every. Single. Time. until your account gets warned enough to be timed out or banned.

As I said before – this isn't a matter of discussion.

I have wasted far more of my time than I ever wanted to laying out the specifics of exactly what's expected from you and why in this reply, so that you can't feign ignorance if/when the seemingly inevitable occurs and you get a warning & more posts of yours moved here. I'd be more than happy for you to prove me wrong, as it would be lovely for me to never have to spend another single solitary second pruning a thread of your ad nauseam lamenting – but ultimately what happens is entirely up to you.

I'm not replying again, because I'm going to spend the rest of my time posting about things I am personally excited about and interested in, and you have well more than enough information to make whatever choice you choose to about what role you're going to play within this community going forward.




X

 

[Jairus]

@Jairus – I'm going to be frank. Everyone here is completely and utterly exhausted of seeing your opinion on this topic elsewhere on the board.

I haven't seen many comments actually saying that.

This isn't because we're not interested in the Avalanche crew. Quite the opposite. We love the Avalanche crew and have a huge range of opinions about their utilization in the Remake. It's because your posts are obsessively one-note and offer nothing insightful or interesting, and you latch on to every opportunity to provide this perspective that it's made even mentioning the topic of the Avalanche trio anywhere a drag, because you'll inevitably show up and ruin everyone else's enjoyment and excitement by adding in your predictable disappointment about the same thing over and over again. Every possible response that anyone could give you whenever you mention the topic up only ever just gives way to you bringing up your obsession and complaining about the things we've heard from you a hundred thousand times already.

Except that in those posts you just moved, I didn't argue about anything. Saying something would've been nice isn't the same as being disappointed or complaining. There's a difference. I was specifically told by Tres that if I wanted to bring it up, that was how to do it.

If you're making posts with the anticipation that no one will reply, you're not providing any content worth talking about. If you're not providing any content worth talking about, there's no reason for you to have made that post at all. If that's the case, then don't post because you're not adding anything to the thread.

If you still make the post anyway, you're doing one of two things: spamming or hoping for off-topic engagement, both of which will inevitably derail the thread. Both of those will also earn you a warning – so there's never any reason to be doing either of them.

Saying I wasn't trying to cause debate isn't the same as saying I wasn't expecting anyone to reply. Again, there is a difference which you don't seem to grasp. And it wasn't really off-topic because it had to do with their official concept art posts/tweets, which is what the thread was about. I never went into any other aspect of the trio in those posts but kept it only to that.

Since it's obvious that you HAVE still been making posts, you're still seeding opportunities to bait out replies from someone addressing the subject of the Avalanche Trio with context that you've set. Then you respond to them about that, and steer things back towards what you were told not to discuss is that thread. Then when you get shut down, you just start playing dumb or acting the victim because you technically didn't start the conversation, so you feel like you can't be held responsible for just engaging with people when the topic came about naturally.

– But it didn't happen naturally. You're just starting this same pattern in different ways that you think you can get away with.

I'm just trying to talk, nothing more. You're not in my head, so don't tell me what I'm thinking when you can't possibly know. No one seems to bring them up except for me.

This has gotten to the point where people no longer even have the barest remote interest in seeing those posts – let alone in discussing this topic with you. No matter how much we genuinely like the Avalanche trio or have thoughts about how they're being used, discussing them just brings along with it the inevitable dread of needing to ignore or otherwise deal with your replies on the subject. It's become the inescapable wet blanket that worms its way into everything, brings down the mood, and causes people to just disengage. Then when you get ignored, you just get louder and more frustrated – and you manage to make everyone else's experience here worse because of it.

Then I shouldn't be ignored. Cause and effect works both ways.

Because those posts of yours are now a predictable net negative on the community, you've been asked to stop being so self-focused and contain your opinions to a thread that was explicitly designated for you to do so. No one's silencing you. We gave you a dedicated and focused platform to share all of your thoughts and opinions on the matter. We have simply trimmed back the creeping tendrils from everywhere else, so that the community at large can enjoy these things without you instantly killing the mood.

Simply bringing up a subject is killing the mood?

The fact that this thread has become the equivalent of an echo chamber of you screaming into the void about a topic that you're desperate for others to listen to is no one's responsibility but your own. You feel like having your posts restricted here is caging your opinions, but this is a prison of your own design, because you refused to be self-reflective enough to create content worth other's time to engage. That no one wants to discuss it here with you isn't a problem at all – it is a reflection of the reality of the circumstances that you have created for yourself that we have been forced to contain in order to prevent them from continually affecting everyone else. If you post content worth replying to here, people will respond to it. If you're continually off-putting and loop all engagement back into your melancholic disappointments and harshing on everyone's good vibes, people will disengage.

People have responded to things I've said here, discussions have been had. So don't tell me I haven't created content worth other's time to engage in. Or are you saying my stories and art are worthless, too?

However, rather than changing when failing at managing to champion the topic on your own, you started reaching back out again. It got to the point that, you were clearly and explicitly told not to discuss this topic within the Official Twitter thread – and couldn't even go a week without going right back down that same rabbit hole.

Again, my posts there were about their official twitter posts and what could've been done with them, so they were not off-topic.

Being told that you're not allowed to talk about it in that thread is not the same as being unable to discuss it on the entire forum. Again – don't exaggerate and play at being the victim here as you're not being persecuted, and don't play dumb because you've done this too many times for that to be the case. You're now being reprimanded for continually and repeatedly not doing what was asked of you – but instead choosing to push the technicalities of those stated boundaries established in good faith in every possible way in order to keep engaging on this obsession of yours outside of this thread.

The way you said it indicated otherwise. So now I don't know where it's safe to say anything about them.

If you want this thread to be a place that's worth having conversations in it: Do it.

If you want to go elsewhere on the internet to air your grievances to any desperate audience you can find wherever they let you: Do it.

If you think that there is even a tiny remote hint of a possibility that I will see something you post and be forced to waste more of my time to move it here – post something different that is worth everyone else's time to engage with, make a related post about your thoughts within this thread instead, or just decide that the post wasn't important enough to make in the first place and do something else. If this is what it finally takes to make you think through your actions and learn how to be a member others welcome rather than begrudgingly tolerate, I'm more than glad to be the enforcer of you second-guessing everything you post on the board.

If you do not have the capacity to do that, you will receive a warning, and the post will be moved back to this thread. Every. Single. Time. until your account gets warned enough to be timed out or banned.

As I said before – this isn't a matter of discussion.

I have wasted far more of my time than I ever wanted to laying out the specifics of exactly what's expected from you and why in this reply, so that you can't feign ignorance if/when the seemingly inevitable occurs and you get a warning & more posts of yours moved here. I'd be more than happy for you to prove me wrong, as it would be lovely for me to never have to spend another single solitary second pruning a thread of your ad nauseam lamenting – but ultimately what happens is entirely up to you.

As I said, saying something would've been nice is not the same thing as lamenting or complaining. It's all in the word choice and tone.

 

[Knights of the Round]

I haven't seen many comments actually saying that.

I'll say it. And I'm sure that others probably want to but are trying to be nice.

It's become clear to me over time that all you really care about is trying to be the center of attention around here and playing the 'victim card'. You've derailed discussions over and over again because you feel like your opinion should, for some reason, take priority over others.

That's not how respectful discussion works. People should feel free to discuss their opinions without enduring constant brainwashing from others.

 

[Kratos]

From my perspective, it’s always stated the same:

“Square didn’t put them front and center in this advert or give them an equivalent so they’re being ignored and it would be nice if they weren’t.”

That’s the comment every time, and because it’s the same, it adds nothing to new conversations. All that can happen is the same conversations get repeated in the midst of discussion about actual new information or renders or screenshots or ads, which is a derailing buzzkill.

It’s also pretty clear at this point that your ideal for this does not match the reality that Square created, and that isn’t going to change either, so why the need to bang this drum every time that fact is reaffirmed?

 

[Jairus]

I'll say it. And I'm sure that others probably want to but are trying to be nice.

It's become clear to me over time that all you really care about is trying to be the center of attention around here and playing the 'victim card'. You've derailed discussions over and over again because you feel like your opinion should, for some reason, take priority over others.

That's not how respectful discussion works. People should feel free to discuss their opinions without enduring constant brainwashing from others.

Wrong. If I wanted to be the center of attention, it wouldn't matter what I said. And I'd post in every single forum and thread here. But I don't. And I've made plenty that don't have to do with them at all. I'm not trying to brainwash anyone, so back off. I never said my opinion should matter over others. I just don't want it dismissed or ignored is all. I want to feel it matters just as much as anyone else's here, no matter what it is.

From my perspective, it’s always stated the same:

“Square didn’t put them front and center in this advert or give them an equivalent so they’re being ignored and it would be nice if they weren’t.”

That’s the comment every time, and because it’s the same, it adds nothing to new conversations. All that can happen is the same conversations get repeated in the midst of discussion about actual new information or renders or screenshots or ads, which is a derailing buzzkill.

It’s also pretty clear at this point that your ideal for this does not match the reality that Square created, and that isn’t going to change either, so why the need to bang this drum every time that fact is reaffirmed?

So opinion doesn't matter, then? And I never said they had to be featured all the time in everything. You're misrepresenting what I'm saying. In terms of the bio-tweets, what I was trying to show and point out was the clear disparity in how theirs was handled in contrast to that of every other revealed character who's had one. They haven't been given them individually, while all the others have. I just wanted people to see and realize that and be aware of it.

I don't expect them to have this huge role in the game, if that's what you're thinking. Just a significant presence in the first third is fine. To have at least that much. And not always shown as a group, but separate from each other as well.

 

[Knights of the Round]

Wrong. If I wanted to be the center of attention, it wouldn't matter what I said. And I'd post in every single forum and thread here. But I don't. And I've made plenty that don't have to do with them at all. I'm not trying to brainwash anyone, so back off. I never said my opinion should matter over others. I just don't want it dismissed or ignored is all. I want to feel it matters just as much as anyone else's here, no matter what it is.

Saying you "don't want it dismissed or ignored" is demonstrating your inflated mindset about your own opinions. Others of us may, and have the full right, to 'dismiss' and 'ignore' them at will. "Tough cookies", as they say. That's free will. You're going to have people who disagree with your views, don't care about them, or outright ignore them. If you can't deal with that, then a discussion forum is the wrong place for you to be hanging out.

You constantly repeating yourself over and over again and refusing to bend on any alternate viewpoints, or opinions, just shows a lack of social cognizance, or respect for others.

 

[Teioh]

@Jairus – I'm going to be frank. Everyone here is completely and utterly exhausted of seeing your opinion on this topic elsewhere on the board.

I haven't seen many comments actually saying that.

Just going to step in and point out:

Perhaps a thread could be started solely for the discussion of Jessie (Biggs and Wedge) and whatever anyone wants to debate about them there? And any further discussion could be diverted there instead of going through pages and pages of back and forth with very little progress? This has happened far too many times in far too many different threads now and to be honest I'm starting to feel about certain characters exactly how I feel about the LTD.

^ This is the post I made which led to this thread being created in the first place. This is me being completely exhausted by the constant thread derailment. Obviously others felt the same way because this thread was made.

 

[Jairus]

Saying you "don't want it dismissed or ignored" is demonstrating your inflated mindset about your own opinions. Others of us may, and have the full right, to 'dismiss' and 'ignore' them at will. "Tough cookies", as they say. That's free will. You're going to have people who disagree with your views, don't care about them, or outright ignore them. If you can't deal with that, then a discussion forum is the wrong place for you to be hanging out.

You constantly repeating yourself over and over again and refusing to bend on any alternate viewpoints, or opinions, just shows a lack of social cognizance, or respect for others.

I never said I demanded to be agreed with. Only that my opinion is as valid as anyone else's and that I just want it to be seen as such. And I'll bend just as soon as others bend on mine in return. It's supposed to go both ways, not just in one direction.

Just going to step in and point out:

^ This is the post I made which led to this thread being created in the first place. This is me being completely exhausted by the constant thread derailment. Obviously others felt the same way because this thread was made.

They may have, but until now, not very many said much about it.

 

[Rydeen]

I haven't seen many comments actually saying that.

I've already been fairly verbal about this, but I am "completely and utterly exhausted" as well.

It's not personal. Many of us enjoy the occasion that you post about something other than this topic. It's not really about Clessie/Jessie anymore - regardless of how you and others feel about the topic, the bottom line is that the vast majority of us are, "completely and utterly exhausted" and not interested anymore, even when it's sequestered in this one thread, really. The subject matter is ostensible at this point - it could be about any topic that has been argued to death. We have numerous Clessie shippers and Jessie fans on this forum in the club and even they don't come here, probably because they recognize that the conversation you keep pushing is pointless and they just want to enjoy the ship, but perhaps I should just let them speak for themselves.

You've been frequently bashing SE recently over the same topic you've been ranting about for months, which makes people feel like shit because most of us are super hyped and are using the realization of this lifelong dream of ours to cope with what's going on in the world. Whether or not you agree with that Twitter post being moved here, the ensuing argument kinda messed up the moment 13 years in waiting I was having when the scans of my favorite video game villain were released. It doesn't matter whose fault any of this is. It doesn't matter what the topic is about. I'm just tired of it.

Many of us will likely resort to muting you on their accounts. I'm very close to doing it honestly.

 

[Jairus]

No one has ever made you be involved in the discussions. You chose to be. As for SE, I just noticed how much less promotion the trio was getting since the turn of the year and certain things they were continually not given that virtually every other revealed character was, even random quest givers. I was just trying to call attention to that disparity.

I'm sorry about your moment, I didn't mean for it to cause that. The initial posts that were moved didn't have any complaining or deflating remarks in them, I had been trying to make sure they didn't. They were just posts about concept art/tweets in a thread about that very thing. But I don't want to go on about it anymore.

I don't want to be muted, and I'm sorry I pushed you close to it.