Laughably bad article that does raise an interesting question

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#1
First, read this terribad article by someone who should just probably not bother playing the original again, much less worry about the content of the remake: "15 Things That NEED To Be Cut From The Final Fantasy VII Remake"

But this does make me wonder: What from the original should be left out? There has, of course, been plenty of discussion already about socially responsible portrayals with regard to Wall Market, so I'd like to hear more about other things in this thread.

Anyone have anything that needs to be 4x-Cut?
 

SeaDragon

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Sjödraken
#4
But Hojo on the beach is one of the best moments I want to see:rclosedmonster:
Anyway, propably use Mr. Dolphin to jump up into the upper levels of Junon.
 

null

Same as it ever was
AKA
null
#5
You can pry Wutai from my cold dead fetal hug.

To be honest I didn't disagree with everything. Skip long summons? Good idea. Abandon Genesis? God yes. Snowboard game inconsistent with the tone at that point? Yeah, I can see that. Make the ending less vague because we know what comes next? Might be pushing it but I see the logic.

I wouldn't cut much though, except for outdated grinding and confusing level perspectives, which won't be a problem if it plays like XV.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
#6
That article is definitely pretty terribad, not only because some of its suggestions are bad (like Cait Sith's accent and the Wutai subquests are pretty important to Yuffie and Reeve's characters) but because quite a few of them aren't even cuts but rather requests for modifications that are already likely to be done for the Remake, e.g. the optional status of Vincent and Yuffie and the Zack flashbacks are almost assuredly going to be mandatory features in the Remake and/or there being no likelihood of Genesis appearing in the Remake beyond easter egg references to him since the Compilation plot points already justify why he wouldn't appear in the OG.

As for the Hojo beach party, that should be played up to be even more awkward/comedic in the Remake, like I would love for it to be like Obstinate Melon's take on that scene:

The only things I actually agree with the article on is making the Chocobo side quests less tedious and the Tifa/Scarlet slap fight, it really just stretches the suspension of disbelief too much in regards to diminishing Tifa's strength. However, that scene doesn't need to be entirely excised, it could be modified to be more consistent with Tifa's strength while also still being comedic, such as like this modified fan comic depiction of the scene:



EDIT: source for the fan comic: http://dansome0203.tumblr.com/post/124702604275/honestly-the-catfight-with-tifa-should-have
 
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AKA
Mr. Ite
#8
In response to the article:

15. Genesis. Agree. Can you cut someone who wasn't there to begin with? I mean, he'll still be in Crisis Core, which is I think one of their three top-selling FF7 titles (the other two being OG and AC)? And CC still plays good and still looks good. So... I agree with the artlcle, he should remain "behind the scenes" in the remake.

14. Optional Characters. Strongly disagree.

13. Wutai. I second (edit: I third) what Null said. Can we dogpile on Wutai to protect it from this website?

12. Pleasant Planet. I see where Scott Baird is coming from here, but... I want to feel like the world can still be saved, and if it's sucked dry... I mean, in Final Fantasy I, the world was in much worse shape, but to solve it, all you needed to do was heal a magic crystal. The disastrous effects of resource depletion is less of an easy fix. The planet is an organism, not a machine, and it takes time to heal. The northern crater has been healing for what, two thousand years? The more fucked up the planet is, the less likely it is that we would see an overgrown Midgar only 500 years later. The more likely it is that it may be injured beyond repair. It's a chilling thought, one I struggle with irl (I live in a coastal city!) and while Shinra's abuse of the world is an everpresent issue in FF7, it doesn't need to be at the forefront of my playing experience. I don't want to play Fallout, that depresses me. I want to enjoy the "pleasant planet" and remind myself what I'm fighting to save.

11. Schizo. Strongly disagree. This is headdesk stupid.

10. I never liked Supernova, but excessively long final boss epic attacks are a staple of my favorite FFs. They are non-pre-rendered animations that push the graphical limitations and processing power of their machine, and push the creative and programming teams, to the limit. In the PS1 era, summons were as well. I think FFIX did it best with a short version of the eidolons that gave slightly less damage.

9. Hojo's experiments. Strongly disagree. It's supposed to make you uncomfortable.

8. Snowboarding. The only thing they would need to do with the snowboarding bit is change the tone, and keep the balloons and moogles for the Gold Saucer minigame. The actual thrillride down the mountain is EXACTLY what I need after the sobfest Disc 1 finale.

7. Chocobo Breeding. The article has nothing of value to say about this; reading those paragraphs what about as interesting as scraping mud off my shoes. But on the topic of breeding, it's one of the only things about the remake I'm excited to see changed. I'm confident that they won't remove some sort of breeding game, and I'm sure that the team won't be satisfied with simply porting over the "press the reset button" mechanic. When it comes to chocobos in the Remake, I think Square Enix is more than capable of surprising me, in a good way. For the chocobos that feature in the story (I can name only one, two if you count the white chocobo) and those you find in the wild, on the track, and the ones you raise -- their looks, game function -- I'm really stoked to see what Square-Enix comes up with.

6. Zack's Hidden Death scene. Disagree, I think it's a great reward for those who LOOK for absolution in the basement of Shinra mansion. It's players who roleplay as Cloud, who return to that library looking for answers, they are the ones that are treated to that last memory. That said... it is an essential part of the story, and FF has been more movie-game than role-playing-game since FFX, so I gotta let go o that. I expect it will come at a linear point in the story, most likely inside the Mideel earthquake.

5. Carry Armor. No. Headdesk headdesk. Why u hate playing games?

4. Hojo's Beach Party. Strongly disagree. I'm jumping off of Wutai to protect lab-coat-only Hojo with my own foetal hug.

3. The ending. MOST STRONGLY DISAGREE. Jesus what is wrong with that ending? It's awesome! Go watch something made by Gainax then come back and tell me that this ending was too esoteric or whatever. Go watch 2001: A Space Odyssey and come back and tell me that FFVII's ending is "vague." Chips and crackers! Not everything needs to be wrapped up in a little bow. How about you find someone else who has played the game and sit in a cafe and talk about what those images, symbols, and words meant to you. It's called GODDAMN ART! You're supposed to interact with it, bring your own ideas and perceptions and biases and meet the artwork somewhere in the middle, halfway outside of yourself. This isn't Disney, it's not going to spoonfeed you what it wants you to think. You have to THINK FOR YOURSELF. ARRRRGHHHH.

2. The slap fight. Slightly agree. It will definitely stand out in the post PS1 era, where combat, exploration, and scenes are seamless. Before, battle scenes were pretty much a completely different universe, and you couldn't even jump or walk around a box outside of them. So while Tifa never leaves my party except for when Cid takes over, I never found it strange that I wasn't using Meteor Strike on that wench. I was kind of busy pushing circle like a crazed chimp. SLAP HER! COME ON! SHIT! SLAP! NO. YES! But I have telltale games for that now. Cut it.

1. Cait Sith's Accent. Don't care. Please let us toggle VAs. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please. Please.
 
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Theozilla

Kaiju Member
#9
14. Optional Characters. Strongly disagree.
Regardless of whether you want them to be kept as optional recruits or not, do you really think Square Enix will keep Vincent and Yuffie as optional characters in the Remake? Seems like an unlikely prospect considering how both Vincent and Yuffie have had more prominent roles in other spin-off titles than some of the mandatory FFVII party members have had.
 
AKA
Mr. Ite
#10
14. Optional Characters. Strongly disagree.
Regardless of whether you want them to be kept as optional recruits or not, do you really think Square Enix will keep Vincent and Yuffie as optional characters in the Remake? Seems like an unlikely prospect considering how both Vincent and Yuffie have had more prominent roles in other spin-off titles than some of the mandatory FFVII party members have had.
You're absolutely right. I have no expectations about the remake except for that it is going to look really cool. The original isn't going anywhere. These are just my wants.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#11
Ite, I loved that big post (first time you've ever heard that? :awesome:). You highlighted most of the stupid in that article.

I still can't believe how bad the chocobo breeding spot on the list was. Not only is that screenshot from the wrong game, but it's apparent the writer played a version of FFIX no one else had access to:

It is possible for chocobo breeding to be fun, as was proven with the excellent Chocobo Hot & Cold game in Final Fantasy IX.
:wacky:
 
AKA
Mr. Ite
#12
Ite, I loved that big post (first time you've ever heard that? :awesome:). You highlighted most of the stupid in that article.

I still can't believe how bad the chocobo breeding spot on the list was. Not only is that screenshot from the wrong game, but it's apparent the writer played a version of FFIX no one else had access to:

It is possible for chocobo breeding to be fun, as was proven with the excellent Chocobo Hot & Cold game in Final Fantasy IX.
:wacky:
Hah! I didn't even catch that. Ooh yeah, stone with patterns really gets Choco in the mood. Too bad there's only Zidane and Mene here. And Hojo. Wh-what are you doing, Hojo!?
 
AKA
Jason Tandro, Doc Brown, Santa Christ, FearAddict, Thibault Stormrunner, RN: Micah Rodney
#14
In response to the article:

15. Genesis - If they can't make his appearance natural then yes.

14. Optional Characters - No strong feelings.

13. Wutai - What the fuck are you smoking?

12. Pleasant Planet - Actually a good point but I think he probably missed a great deal. We did see a direct impact as every area around a reactor for several miles was a shit hole, with the possible exception of Mt. Corel itself. We see that stark difference and I think that is key. We see the natural beauty of the planet then go to these harsh, trashed environments.

11. Schizo - Somebody needs to git gud.

10. Supernova - Come on this is iconic.

9. Hojo's experiments - Quoting Ite: "Strongly disagree. It's supposed to make you uncomfortable."

8. Snowboarding - I actually agree with this idea and have said as much before. It's a jarring emotional shift. Maybe if they can space it out better OR make it abundantly clear that they have no other choice, i.e. make the Turks actively chasing them as opposed to that lazy near fight cutscene. Iono, it's tricky.

7. Chocobo Breeding - It was tedious but compared to many of the modern Final Fantasy sidequests it's not that bad. Shit it's leaps and bounds over any grind from XIII-2 or the MMO.

6. Zack's Hidden Death - I'd say split the difference here. Give us more than we got but also keep some stuff tucked away for completionists.

5. Carry Armor - Someone really needs to git gud and this fight is grossly overexaggerated in difficulty. Seriously guys if you waltz in with Meteorain ready and then spam Comet2 the thing goes down in no time.

4. Hojo's Beach Party - It's official, this guy just hates the idea of Final Fantasy being fun. He wants it to be this grimdark affair and super serial and really doesn't get it.

3. The ending - HAVE YOU FUCKING HEARD OF SUBTLETY AND NUANCE?!? DO YOU NEED TO HAVE EVERYTHING SPELLED OUT FOR YOU, WHAT FUCKING MANBABY WROTE THIS ARTICLE AND WHY DOES HE SUCK AT FINAL FANTASY?!

2. The slap fight - While it does have the same problem as snowboarding in that it's oddly out of tone for the scene I find this thing hilarious. Now a full action duel on top of the cannon between the girls would be phenomenal.

1. Cait Sith's Accent - The accent is not random and so I disagree.



===

OT: What should be left out?

 
#15
I'm not dignifying the article with a click after hearing your descriptions, screw that.

I'm always amazed at how much attention the Hell Houses get. There are far, far weirder enemies in that game, and even while you're still in Midgar. What the hell is
, anyway? The house is just a sentient pile of junk.

The other oft-heard complaint that I never understood is about the snowboarding being "inconsistent." Why? It's a fairly reasonable way to get down a mountain. You do it in silence. Just because it's fun? Exactly how long do you have to wait after Aerith's death that it would be "appropriate" to have fun in a video game? And how are you going get them down the mountain? Trudge down it and extend the worst dungeon in the game? No thanks. What if they ski instead? Is that more "respectful?" The snowboarding is fine.
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
#16
You guys should have seen us at Gamefaqs when Hellhouse was a trending meme.

I wrote a whole (lite) essay about how Hell House actually makes sense as a modern day Mimic monster.

Mimics are a staple of the RPG genre, if not specifically the majority of the FF franchise. Collecting treasure is a huge part of it, and its an excellent way to hunt for your prey by luring it over in the guise of something they really really want.

With how destitute the slums are, a pretty house to take shelter in would be a great way to lure people close enough to eat them.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
#17
I will be personally offended if we don't see a Hell House. They perfectly encapsulate the terror of the slums and the occasional ridiculousness of Final Fantasy 7 all in one neat package.

Also, just imagine how EXCELLENT it would be to have one sitting innocuously off the side of the path after you meet Aerith, invisible amongst other rubble and junk – only to have it suddenly roar to life and attempt to jump scare murder you. They'd be fucking brilliant in the Remake.





X :neo:
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
#18
Yeah, that's kind of an interesting point; While a lot of classically creepy Amano monsters have appeared in XV a lot of them skew towards realistic animal inspirations.

It's going to be interesting to see the more grotesque monsters of VII fully realized. Crisis Core played it too safe by sticking to typified monsters, rather than using the more bizarre fauna.

Anyone remember the evolving plant monster in Gongaga? VII could throw some nasty surprises at the newbies that way, even at a point where you would likely feel like you've got the hang of things.
 
AKA
Mr. Ite
#19
Yeah I always imagined hell houses as hermit-crab-like creatures that used the shell of a house to live in. Don't quite know how they got so many missiles...
 

Unit-01

Waiting on Evangelion 3.0+1.0
AKA
Sicarius VI, Pink Guy, Sic, Anthony
#20
Yeah I always imagined hell houses as hermit-crab-like creatures that used the shell of a house to live in. Don't quite know how they got so many missiles...
Well they are found in Midgar.

__________

In response to the article.

15. No.
14. Agreed.
13. No, there needs to be difficulty in games, including annoying areas. Frankly that quest isn't even hard if you know what you're doing.
12. Did you play 7? I do agree there are a few locations, but for the most part this already exists in the game.
11. No.
10. Annoying, but iconic. I'd image the Remake is going to handle this one differently, but we have years of waiting before we see Safer Sephiroth.

Also just like to point out, the animation is much shorter with the JAP release of 7.
9. Disagree.
8. Well, the mandatory segment of snowboarding is actually quiet, no music plays. I think it is fitting. Just how the character dress isn't. I hope Cloud likes frost bite.
7. Chocobo breeding isn't even bad. Racing isn't either, if you do it right... you should maybe lose against Teioh only.
6. Agreed.
5. Disagree, and just a side note : I do seriously wonder how carry armor will work in the Remake, the mechanics of it rely on having turned based game play. I wonder if there would be some QTE to get out of it's grasp. Once again, years off from seeing this boss.
4. That's what money can do, keep it in.
3. You know, I have doubts the Remake will end at the crater. But again we are years off from seeing it so I'm not thinking too hard about it.
2. Keep it in please.
1. It never bothered me, and like Ite said let us switch VAs.
 
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#21
I understood Hell House to be a machine, not a creature. Some Shinra reject that got turned loose in the slums/sold to Corneo to secure his territory.

As for the hand screen thing, that's easy, it's a security system designed to warn intruders they're somewhere restricted and break out the gun turret if they don't comply.
 
#22
Okay so, as was made perfectly obvious by the reactions of the rest of the crew here, this article has...many imperfections lol. However, I do think some of the points, even the flawed ones, have interesting components to them. The biggest one that I never considered is the "Pleasant Planet" idea. While I agree that I wouldn't want to control Cloud and co. as they wander through a completely burned-out "Mad Max" landscape, I also agree with the author that there should be MORE examples of areas that have been damaged/pillaged by Shinra's greed. Some of this I think will happen automatically just as a result of graphical improvements, i.e., Lower Junon, rather than simply looking like a small town and a regular beach on a cloudy day, will actually looked like the fucked up place it's clearly supposed to be, but they could do with adding in a few more examples (while STILL including some of the more lush environments we've come to love).

I'm sure I'll have more to say (assuming this thread stays active) after pondering it a bit more, but the other one that jumps out is the snowboarding. Even besides coming right after Aeris' death, it does seem a bit ridiculous now. And, without the "party members magically go inside Cloud" technique, and assuming the WHOLE group is supposed to be traveling with you now (rather than the chosen 3), are we going to get a sequence where the whole gang--ALL of whom presumably are skilled enough at snowboarding to navigate a potentially deadly downhill mountainscape--rippin' up the ice and launching tricks?? I agree that it was fun at the time, and that the game needs fun, but I feel like even we, and certainly the developers, could come up with a more elegant solution.
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
#23
I understood Hell House to be a machine, not a creature. Some Shinra reject that got turned loose in the slums/sold to Corneo to secure his territory.

As for the hand screen thing, that's easy, it's a security system designed to warn intruders they're somewhere restricted and break out the gun turret if they don't comply.
Its kind of an interesting point that there are two different kinds of death animations. Machine enemies turn opaque and fly apart, while biological enemies turn pink/red and as just fade out.

With that said, it's not exactly consistent.
 
AKA
Mr. Ite
#24
If you look at the world map, the areas around Junon, Midgar and Fort Condor are very grey and depleted. Changing the POV to be top-down makes this super apparent. My first playthrough, I didn't know you could change the POV. After the Mythril Mines, I knew I was approaching a large settlement a few (lol) seconds before I saw Fort Condor. There was a huge circle of land where the grass died and it was jut... dust.
 
#25
Hmmm...that's quite interesting, actually. I don't really remember messing with the view-switch much, other than maybe manically pushing the buttons back and forth (certainly not to see the sights). I wonder if there's more stuff like this. But yeah, it shows at least that they were thinking about portraying this element back then
 
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