Little oddities and incongruities in the FF7 World. [SPOILERS]

[Kyo Cobran]

Hi!

I thought I would create a thread that would poke a little fun at some odd or incongruent things in FF7 Universe. Obviously, as a work of fantasy, there is fantastical elements (materia, magic, summons etc), that, while illogical in our world, are characteristic of their world and those are things I'm not talking about per se. I was thinking more so talking about the funny or weird little inconsistencies in the story or between characters and/or trying to make sense of them.

For example - and why I wanted to post this thread - my friend and I were chatting about FF7 a few days ago and realized, "Wait, why is Tifa excited to get a phone call from Reno in Advent Children, when after all, Reno dropped the Plate that killed thousands of people (also destroying her home and bar) in Sector 7?" I get people's capacity to forgive can be pretty powerful but that level of reconciliation is just impressive.

Or another example, does anyone else find it odd that the lobby of the literal capitol of the world, the Shinra Building, is 1) open and 2) completely empty and 3) no one seems to have heard the chaos that went on in the parking garage (perhaps because the lobby is empty?)

Stuff like that. It's just fun to see what kinda things like this stick out in people's mind and how they make sense of it.

 

[ForceStealer]

For example - and why I wanted to post this thread - my friend and I were chatting about FF7 a few days ago and realized, "Wait, why is Tifa excited to get a phone call from Reno in Advent Children, when after all, Reno dropped the Plate that killed thousands of people (also destroying her home and bar) in Sector 7?" I get people's capacity to forgive can be pretty powerful but that level of reconciliation is just impressive.

People have been complaining about that for years. I was inclined to chalk it up to direction. Because the exact same line could be delivered in a way to mitigate that. I don't think Tifa would respond acidly, but she could have been more neutral/bemused. But she doesn't really sound any different in Japanese there, so

Or another example, does anyone else find it odd that the lobby of the literal capitol of the world, the Shinra Building, is 1) open and 2) completely empty and 3) no one seems to have heard the chaos that went on in the parking garage (perhaps because the lobby is empty?)

I assumed we were being let in. It is the middle of the night. At first I thought it was gonna be Shinra letting us in as with the reactors, but with Domino, I figure it was closed and he just let us in.

 

[Ite]

Hi!

I thought I would create a thread that would poke a little fun at some odd or incongruent things in FF7 Universe. Obviously, as a work of fantasy, there is fantastical elements (materia, magic, summons etc), that, while illogical in our world, are characteristic of their world and those are things I'm not talking about per se. I was thinking more so talking about the funny or weird little inconsistencies in the story or between characters and/or trying to make sense of them.

For example - and why I wanted to post this thread - my friend and I were chatting about FF7 a few days ago and realized, "Wait, why is Tifa excited to get a phone call from Reno in Advent Children, when after all, Reno dropped the Plate that killed thousands of people (also destroying her home and bar) in Sector 7?" I get people's capacity to forgive can be pretty powerful but that level of reconciliation is just impressive.

Or another example, does anyone else find it odd that the lobby of the literal capitol of the world, the Shinra Building, is 1) open and 2) completely empty and 3) no one seems to have heard the chaos that went on in the parking garage (perhaps because the lobby is empty?)

Stuff like that. It's just fun to see what kinda things like this stick out in people's mind and how they make sense of it.

They build up Seto’s statue as like a commanding presence that kept watch over the back entrance to Cosmo Canyon, standing eternally vigil as the protector... and then behind him is Gi Nattak and his howling armies of undead who don’t seem deterred at all and haven’t even stayed dead On that note, why do the Gi enemies use death sentence instead of gradual petrify?

People saying “Goddamn” and “Hell” and “Sins” and “Heaven” and “Angels” and I think someone even says “Jesus” at one point... in a world where there is ostensibly no hell, heaven, or Jesus or even God really. Sins could just be a fancy word for hurting people, I guess? /anime

Midgar being 30 or so years old, and the Gold Saucer being less than 4. Like bruh it takes five or six years to build a single skyscraper in the real world. (Oh wait, Inspire.)

Human enemies never using limit breaks despite them being talked about by NPCs.

Cloud appears as the player character in three gold saucer arcade games which eerily mimic events that happened to him.

Assuming that the world map is an abstract representation of vast distances... why is Kalm where it is!? It’s supposed to be a mining town... for the Mythril Mines halfway across the continent. It isn’t particularly close to a river or the coast either... WHY.

 

[Kyo Cobran]

People have been complaining about that for years. I was inclined to chalk it up to direction. Because the exact same line could be delivered in a way to mitigate that. I don't think Tifa would respond acidly, but she could have been more neutral/bemused. But she doesn't really sound any different in Japanese there, so

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. Tifa: "[giggle] Hey, I know you! You killed most my neighbors two years ago in a false flag attack, anyhow...so how are you doing, what's been goin' on?"

I assumed we were being let in. It is the middle of the night. At first I thought it was gonna be Shinra letting us in as with the reactors, but with Domino, I figure it was closed and he just let us in.

Yeah, that makes sense. There probably were cameras in the garage where Domino could see what was going on. Leave it to Shinra to entrust a resentful middle-aged man with their physical and network security.

 

[Ite]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. Tifa: "[giggle] Hey, I know you! You killed most my neighbors two years ago in a false flag attack, anyhow...so how are you doing, what's been goin' on?"

This is why you don’t let a survey write your script. The overwhelming fan demand for Reno, and the popularity of his KH clone Axel, is what determined his role in AC. Him and Rude showing up in Tifa’s bedroom in the middle of the night to scold Cloud? That movie didn’t make any sense.

 

[Kyo Cobran]

People saying “Goddamn” and “Hell” and “Sins” and “Heaven” and “Angels” and I think someone even says “Jesus” at one point... in a world where there is ostensibly no hell, heaven, or Jesus or even God really. Sins could just be a fancy word for hurting people, I guess? /anime

It funny you mention that because I had that same question in Pokemon. They categorize some Pokemon as "Mouse-type" or "Bird-type" Pokemon but, in their world, there are no mice or birds, so, uh, how could they categorize creatures by things that don't exist?

I guess for the religious stuff in FF7, maybe, they already was some type of dualistic religion that competes with their, obviously proven, pantheistic world. *shrug*

Human enemies never using limit breaks despite them being talked about by NPCs.

Yeah, I've always kinda wondered that. Like, are the main characters superheroes or do all the NPCs just have those same abilities but the main characters are just more proficient that the general population? Like, if a random low-level Shinra grunt could just buy a Bahamut Summon Materia from Ebay or whatnot and just whip it out during a random encounter like in Chapter 2.

Assuming that the world map is an abstract representation of vast distances... why is Kalm where it is!? It’s supposed to be a mining town... for the Mythril Mines halfway across the continent. It isn’t particularly close to a river or the coast either... WHY.

Yeah, that really confused me the first time I played FF7 OG. I was looking for town with the mines but was just really confused. Also, if you can't beat the Zolom between Kalm and the Mythril Mines, I seriously can't expect the townsfolks to be able to do so. I can't imagine it's good for their economy to have giant ass Snake between them and their primary source of income.

Cloud appears as the player character in three gold saucer arcade games which eerily mimic events that happened to him.

Now that's freaky.

They build up Seto’s statue as like a commanding presence that kept watch over the back entrance to Cosmo Canyon, standing eternally vigil as the protector... and then behind him is Gi Nattak and his howling armies of undead who don’t seem deterred at all and haven’t even stayed dead On that note, why do the Gi enemies use death sentence instead of gradual petrify?

Lol, now I have to go replay that part. Which also reminds me, isn't weird that Bugenhagen just let Red XIII go on for years thinking that his father was a coward? Like, that a little effed up.

 

[Kyo Cobran]

This is why you don’t let a survey write your script. The overwhelming fan demand for Reno, and the popularity of his KH clone Axel, is what determined his role in AC. Him and Rude showing up in Tifa’s bedroom in the middle of the night to scold Cloud? That movie didn’t make any sense.

No, it most definitely did not. But to be fair, Rude and Reno were the most entertaining characters in Advent Children - and made the movie tolerable. They should have just somehow explained why the main characters could either tolerate or forgive the Turks, so it wouldn't be so damn bizarre to see the guys that killed your comrades just casually chilling in your bedroom.

 

[Ite]

No, it most definitely did not. But to be fair, Rude and Reno were the most entertaining characters in Advent Children - and made the movie tolerable. They should have just somehow explained why the main characters could either tolerate or forgive the Turks, so it wouldn't be so damn bizarre to see the guys that killed your comrades just casually chilling in your bedroom.

Did a novel go over this? The Turks Are All Right, maybe? Seems it was all the rage in the 00s to put the between stuff in novels (Anakin’s scar)

 

[Ite]

Yeah, I've always kinda wondered that. Like, are the main characters superheroes or do all the NPCs just have those same abilities but the main characters are just more proficient that the general population? Like, if a random low-level Shinra grunt could just buy a Bahamut Summon Materia from Ebay or whatnot and just whip it out during a random encounter like in Chapter 2.

In Sector 7 there are two kids in the training hall that display limit breaks:

Boy
......smack......knock......!!

Girl
Help!

Cloud
You've got to hang in there. You're limit gauge is just starting to build.

Girl
Waaaah!!

Cloud
Ok! Now your limit gauge is full, go ahead and use it! Fight with your limit technique.

The girl knocks down the boy.

Cloud
Great!

Yeah, that really confused me the first time I played FF7 OG. I was looking for town with the mines but was just really confused. Also, if you can't beat the Zolom between Kalm and the Mythril Mines, I seriously can't expect the townsfolks to be able to do so. I can't imagine it's good for their economy to have giant ass Snake between them and their primary source of income.

Some NPCs in Kalm actually talk about this:

Kid outside Bar
My old man was a miner, but he couldn't go to work after monsters started appearing in the Mythril Mine.
Now all he does is sit around getting drunk in the bar...

Inside the bar...

Man
Me? I used to work in a coal mine down south called Mythril Mine.
But, right around then, monsters started appearing.
After that, business went to pot and now I spend the days here drinking.
Urrrp! ...hic... I'm stinking drunk!!

Monsters could refer to ark dragons and madouges, but the zolom is a particularly nasty roadblock

Edit: wait a minute, what!? COAL MINE!?

 

[KindOfBlue]

What the hell even is a limit break anyways?

 

[Kyo Cobran]

Did a novel go over this? The Turks Are All Right, maybe? Seems it was all the rage in the 00s to put the between stuff in novels (Anakin’s scar)

So, The Kids Are Alright/Turk Side Story developed Rude and Reno quite a bit. They are depicted as far more decent people, especially with kids. And while they generally can turn it off when Tseng orders them too, at some point, they defy Tseng. I don't know if that was a show of moral evolution or just an oversight, "We won't kill a kid, but drop a plate on a town, that's okay." Either way, they don't ever express contrition over the Plate drop, at least in this story. I can't remember if Reeves pardons them in some other story.

The thing is, the main FF7 OG characters don't know that nor do they really interact with Rude or Reno in the TKAA. So as far as Tifa is concerned, or should be, they still are the dicks she remembers.

 

[Makoeyes987]

How "dickish'" the Turks are, along with their perception is determined by one's own playthrough of the OG.

You can choose not to violently engage with the Turks twice, including one final time in Midgar and peacefully part ways. Combined with the Turks actually working together with everyone in Wutai to save Yuffie, they are more than just antagonistic enemies. In the end they wish for you to survive and say their mission is finished. Unless the player chooses to perpetuate a grudge in-game, no grudges between the two exist except Elena's brief mistaken belief you've murdered Tseng and Reno wanting payback for his beatdown on the pillar.

 

[Kyo Cobran]

How "dickish'" the Turks are, along with their perception is determined by one's own playthrough of the OG.

You can choose not to violently engage with the Turks twice, including one final time in Midgar and peacefully part ways. Combined with the Turks actually working together with everyone in Wutai to save Yuffie, they are more than just antagonistic enemies. In the end they wish for you to survive and say their mission is finished. Unless the player chooses to perpetuate a grudge in-game, no grudges between the two exist except Elena's brief mistaken belief you've murdered Tseng and Reno wanting payback for his beatdown on the pillar.

Those are all good points. I forgot that you could have to option to fight them and you team up with them to rescue Elena and Yuffie. That said, Reno did basically kill Wedge, Biggs and Jessie, so it's just weirdly nonchalant when Tifa has her flirtsy phone call with Reno. I guess I can see Tifa kinda recognizing their dual complicity in the lives lost by their respective organizations.

 

[FFShinra]

I have a distinct suspicion the Remake will carry through the complicated nature of the relationship the party has with the Turks in a way that will reflect those concerns.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Oh, they will because they've done so already. And the Turks are immensely popular characters who are the story's recurring punch-clock villains and rivals to the heroes.

 

[Theozilla]

I also wouldn't described Tifa's reaction to Reno's phone-call in ACC as excited. While it certainly not hostile, I didn't get the impression it was someone she had a cordial relationship with, more neutral familiar, because yes she did know/recognize/remember the voice of the person calling on the phone.

 

[Kai Schulen]

Also, I would like to imagine that post VII, the relationship between Avalanche and the Turks isn't exactly buddy-buddy -- if one group contacts the other, it's not to catch up on old times and chit-chat, it's probably about something serious.

 

[Kyo Cobran]

I have a distinct suspicion the Remake will carry through the complicated nature of the relationship the party has with the Turks in a way that will reflect those concerns.

I'm sure they will. In the Remake they already are alluding to a complication relationship between Avalanche and, at least, Rude and Reno. Rude's refusal to fire upon the team when Tifa was climbing up the stairs in Chapter 6 and then Rude and Reno's expressing contrition with the plate drop in Chapter 17 are glimpses that suggest this.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

People saying “Goddamn” and “Hell” and “Sins” and “Heaven” and “Angels” and I think someone even says “Jesus” at one point... in a world where there is ostensibly no hell, heaven, or Jesus or even God really. Sins could just be a fancy word for hurting people, I guess? /anime

I mean, there are Christian-style churches in both Midgar and Kalm, so that indicates some kind of alternate (from the Study of Planet Life) belief system has existed somewhere along the way.

Midgar being 30 or so years old, and the Gold Saucer being less than 4. Like bruh it takes five or six years to build a single skyscraper in the real world. (Oh wait, Inspire.)

This topic comes up now and then, but what you referenced really isn't that odd:

You people really think that 30 years is... too little time to build Midgar?

You've never been to Eastern Asian countries like Japan or China, have you?

A skyscraper was built in the first area I lived in (in the countryside) in two years. A block of flats was given to the public in sixteen months. Two subway lines finished construction in one year. I lived there for four years before moving to a big city and there was a small town there, when there were only fields when I had first arrived there.

By Japanese standards, 30 years is enough to build a nation.

Think about how quickly Mumbai's transformation took place. These rapid developments only seem implausible by standards where construction contracts are in place specifying a job to take X amount of time at the least rather than the most.

 

[Shademp]

Nobody in the FF7 world ever talk about the huge crater near Junon where a forest used to be until Weapon was summoned. Self-explanatory enough that Weapon was involved, and Shinra may or may not have been at the scene fighting Weapon before the crater was made, but it still stands out to me that this giant change in the landscape remains only a visual detail and is never incorporated into specific textual lore.

 

[ForceStealer]

^Now that's a good point. Especially because I'm always surprised how many text lines they add in towns you don't have a reason to back to in the late games, but you're right that no one ever mentions that.

 

[Wol]

They build up Seto’s statue as like a commanding presence that kept watch over the back entrance to Cosmo Canyon, standing eternally vigil as the protector... and then behind him is Gi Nattak and his howling armies of undead who don’t seem deterred at all and haven’t even stayed dead On that note, why do the Gi enemies use death sentence instead of gradual petrify?

People saying “Goddamn” and “Hell” and “Sins” and “Heaven” and “Angels” and I think someone even says “Jesus” at one point... in a world where there is ostensibly no hell, heaven, or Jesus or even God really. Sins could just be a fancy word for hurting people, I guess? /anime

Midgar being 30 or so years old, and the Gold Saucer being less than 4. Like bruh it takes five or six years to build a single skyscraper in the real world. (Oh wait, Inspire.)

Human enemies never using limit breaks despite them being talked about by NPCs.

Cloud appears as the player character in three gold saucer arcade games which eerily mimic events that happened to him.

Assuming that the world map is an abstract representation of vast distances... why is Kalm where it is!? It’s supposed to be a mining town... for the Mythril Mines halfway across the continent. It isn’t particularly close to a river or the coast either... WHY.

Wouldn't going into the Lifestream be akin to a blissful and heavenly afterlife? Cetras even called it the Promised Land. Hell is probably the negative Lifestream making the souls there suffer.

Definitely not the same thing, though.

 

[ForceStealer]

Outside a few exceptions, people lose their...cohesion in the Lifestream. As with Elmyra's husband's spirit trying to come to see her but unable to reach her in time. You become part of the diffuse planet's soul unless you have that age-old FF staple of a strong will to hold yourself together. But I guess it's nice for a little while

 

[Odysseus]

I've always found it weird how there is seemingly no concept of nations anywhere to be found in the setting, besides Wutai. Shinra is a relatively recent thing in the world, but there's no real indication of what life was like before them. They apparently rose as a weapons manufacturer in a war, but who was fighting? Why? It's never really developed on.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Midgar was at war with Wutai. Midgar had always been at war with Wutai.