SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

frosty

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Snowman
Precisely.

And when I read the ACC post, I thought the PR/ soc med team was being quite smart in avoiding spoilers by introducing a new character to promote the rerelease...precisely because it doesn't say much. And there are so many new streamers who know nothing of FFVII lore and want to go in blind.

Then I see Clerith comments at the bottom saying Cloud is pining for Aerith after her death... And I'm like, great job giving away the plot y'all. *slow clap
 

Thenir

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nirnaeth
Yeah, I read that post too. The person started saying that it was not a Tifa vs Aerith post, but them proceeded to pit one against the other (and gob forbid someone said Tifa). We all know the true nature of those questions, and I don't get why people need that kind of validation... Is not like they ask looking for different points of view anyway.

They are both great in their own way. Having a preference is fine, but you don't need to belittle one character to raise the other, and especially them, for they work in tandem.
Yeah the same person started another "Aerith Vs Tifa" post some days ago where he ended up stating Cloud always lived at the church after the OG and basically only used Tifa as a babysitter for Denzel. When I provided him a timeline with quotes to show him he was objectively wrong, he got salty and asked for a "quote from Cloud" because Tifa's pov is unreliable since she thinks Cloud's her husband, so I quoted the end of The kids are alright and he got even saltier, denied the timeline, Cloud is pining, Tifa is deludent, clerith is canonyoucantproveclotiiscanonimrightyourewrong and at the end he was still convinced Cloud never lived at the bar.
I swear I just wrote a timeline lol.
That's the level.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
See, this is why... I know @KindOfBlue just wants a statement to provide whenever he runs into someone like that, but I believe that even with a statement, some people will continue to live in that bizarro world. It's my firm belief that the devs will try to shut it down, and that most of the fandom will accept it - which will save us some troubles - but some will *never* be convinced. For me, if the majority finally accepts the canon, it'll be a big step already. Too many times have I seen people treating FFVII like an otome game it wasn't, when one of its major themes is *loss*.
 
Presumably by this point anybody who's still invested in the waifu wars is doing so because they enjoy it.
I'm happy to let them fight their endless battles, if that's what sparks joy for them.
As a historian, I am pleased to see that the same kind of mindset which led to the Iconoclastic Controvery and the Wars of Religon is still alive and well in fans of fantasy everywhere. You just know that if Cloti fans controlled Europe and Clerith fans controlled the Middle East, they'd be constantly invading, besieging, hanging, drawing, quartering, and burning each other at the stake.
Meanwhile, imma just gonna keep writing my Tseng/Rufus fanfic for me and the tiny group of my fellow shippers, and hope that it's never made canon. The end.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Personally I argue because I like arguing ^^' Blame the French school for that lol. The fact that I do ship cloti has little to do with how I perceive and argue canon. I try to think is that's an important part of the plot, how it's presented, what it tells me about the characters. Most of the times I don't even really "ship", I just enjoy the ships, think "oh they're nice together" and that's about it. I really think for me to get invested, really, I have to feel like what's presented is important. I think if I had liked clerith when I first played, I wouldn't have gotten invested in the LTD at all, because the Lifestream scene resolved the LT and told me that Cloud loved Tifa in such way that she was "the" girl. I just really like to analyse stories and my mind leaps from there to think about what's going to happen next, the possibilities, the characters' growth - which is why I enjoy series more than movies, for example.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
The real problem is that these diehard fans who are divorced from the text are going to constantly shriek, howl and whine whenever they collide with reality.

The AC anniversary tweet is a perfect example of that.

That tweet was a non-controversial statement of fact regarding the plot of the movie and showcased Tifa.

That was an affront. A wrecking ball to the house of cards they've constructed which protects their alternate reality interpretation of what AC is and depicted regarding Cloud's future. So whenever anything like that happens, these people are going to get stirred up, antagonistic, and confused. Because it's as if S-E is attacking them.

I'm sure the Remake will present this same problem as well, with the revisiting of these events, themes and character interactions. At some point they're either going to wise up and open their minds to what the narrative presents, or further isolate and silo themselves from anyone, anything and all stories that challenge the utopic vision they've created for themselves regarding Cloud and Aerith's relationship. It's why they simply cannot abide or accept Crisis Core. Crisis Core fucked up the narrative of Aerith and her feelings hard. There's no way to spin it, so it has to be dismissed or just completely deleted. I wouldn't be surprised if some parts of the Remake get treated that way.
 
There's no way to spin it, so it has to be dismissed or just completely deleted. I wouldn't be surprised if some parts of the Remake get treated that way.
Oh, but there's a way for them. Some people decided that CC was the perfect portrait of how hideous Zack was for Aerith. I've seen them calling him a cheating scum (because of the 'womanizer' thing), a selfish person and more beautiful things. Does it really make sense to call someone selfish when he carried his inconscious friend around the Planet just to get him to safety? The quote was something along the lines of 'he put his freedom above Aerith', like what the hell. I can stand shipping banter, but to trash in a certain character and story just because it can't fit your shipping purposes...

Ah, yeah, someone even said (and some of these acounts shitting on Zack agreed) that Zack and Aerith were never in a relationship. There's no grain of logic to be expected from a rabid shipper, it's impossible. If a person is screaming the exact opposite in a span of 5 minutes, something is wrong them, and I don't want to use this words as an insult, is just that they are kinda screaming because they are not open to peaceful discussion or dialogue, they just feel the need to try and spread their headcanons as the Holy Word.

And if you come with canon material, you are the enemy.

Edit: I need to point something out. In the middle of this anti CC screeching, there's an interesting take they use. Aerith is allowed to move on from Zack and love someone else, but Cloud isn't. They need him to mourn Aerith romantically until the end of days.
 

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
That dude Jairus who keeps saying it's not the creator's intent that matters but that that FF7R is everyone's story and hence needs to give Npc's equal representation... He does realize this is a game, and not a democracy...right?
This logic completely boggles my mind…like, does it not occur to some people that the creator’s intentions aren’t always going to cater to everybody’s desire for wish-fulfillment? Jeez, just stick to fapping to fanfiction and move on

See, this is why... I know @KindOfBlue just wants a statement to provide whenever he runs into someone like that, but I believe that even with a statement, some people will continue to live in that bizarro world. It's my firm belief that the devs will try to shut it down, and that most of the fandom will accept it - which will save us some troubles - but some will *never* be convinced. For me, if the majority finally accepts the canon, it'll be a big step already. Too many times have I seen people treating FFVII like an otome game it wasn't, when one of its major themes is *loss*.
For those who have completely chosen to die on this hill, I understand there’s no changing them but I think the devs can at least weaken their influence on the fanbase…I wouldn’t put it past some of these people to try to manipulate newcomers into believing the story is something it isn’t (especially YouTubers and Twitch streamers playing FF7 or FF7R for the first time) so having something that quickly exposes their delusions would be pretty convenient lol
 

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
Did we finally hit the point where my lad has made enough of a reputation for himself on twitter that people are joining the forum and complaining about him without realizing he came from here in the first place? Nice.
When I saw that he’d become something of a figure in the YouTuber Bltzz’s fanbase I thought oh man, it’s only a matter of time until he gets mentioned by the social media accounts or by the devs or something

Interviewer: “So, Kitase-san. Fans have been wondering about whether or not Jessie may be included as part of the affection mechanics as a potential romance option.”

Kitase: “Yes, we’ve actually become aware of a…particularly passionate fan from the West. All I can say is that I am unable to share what the future may hold but please know that we are working hard so do look forward to what’s next…”

Interviewer: “So, Nomura-san. Fans have been wondering about whether or not Jessie may be included as part of the affection mechanics—”

Nomura: “Huh? What kind of question is that? Don’t you wanna hear the lore behind the missing door textures in the PS4 version of the game? Well, due to the influence of the Whispers…”

Interviewer: “So, Nojima-san. Fans have been wondering about whether or not Jessie may—”

Nojima: “Oh for FUCK’S sake, ENOUGH with the Jessie spam, I—”

Interviewer: “…?”

Nojima: “Let’s…cut that bit out.”
 
Hahaha, thank for the laugh @KindOfBlue!

A little out of topic, but how much do you guys think the public perception of the game affects the development (story wise)? Like, people working on the project must be, at the very least, aware of forums like this one or reddit for example.

"Nobody really got what we wanted to say (or show) in this part of the game. Let's change the approach a little bit".
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I think the devs have already thought extensively about it, and are not changing how they're making their game now. It's something they are acutely aware of. The dices are rolled.

Speaking of the LTD, I've wanted to make a post about chapter 11 and its nod to the LT since forever - you knew it was coming XD As I have said, the fact that the devs keep wanting new players to play the OG, be aware of the Compilation is to me one of the signs that they're not using the same tropes than in the OG. Not only LT-wise, but also the way the game acts. It's a subject I'll be touching in my analysis of chapter 11; because it's my belief that, unlike the OG by the end of the Midgar part, the Remake does give you the answer regarding the LT, and it does so as soon as chapter 11. There is definitely some smoke and use of illusion that's super interesting there, so let's go!

Chapter 11 is definitely a nod to the LT. @odekopeko noted that there was some tension with Cloud and Tifa that started in chapter 10, in the sewers, when Cloud was evasive in his reply about Aerith and how come she was there. This was something interesting because... the girls did make friends after this, but the tension remained unanswered until chapter 11. It's also something that can only exist because Cloud and Tifa's relationship is "more than friends" at this stage. They both have feelings for each other, but Cloud doesn't remember nor understands them (I have another thread more general about Cloud, feelings and Jenova that I want to tackle) but all he knows is... that he doesn't want Tifa to misunderstand his relationship with Aerith. I think it is very clear in the way chapter 11 clears things out on the cloti side.

The first scene is when they fall in the wagon. I've seen a lot of people argue that Cloud asks Aerith how she is, but I do not think this is true:

ch11-ltd01.jpg

This is the scene that he sees right after the fall (this is his POV), and there is absolutely no way for me that he only asks Aerith when clearly Tifa is still on the ground. I am of the opinion that Cloud isn't an arse, at least not in Remake, so when he sees this, he asks both girls how they are. Aerith chimes in with "Me I'm OK. Thank you", which leads both Tifa and the player to think that Cloud only asked Aerith. The tension between Cloud and Tifa grows as she coldly pass by - she did get hurt - which freezes Cloud:

ch11-ltd04.jpg

Tifa is already at that point, and we can see that Cloud is still looking at the place where Tifa fell, and Aerith wondering why he's not moving. The reason is pretty simple (because Cloud is a simple man); he's failed to protect Tifa. It's like, his number 1 priority, and he failed it. And now Tifa is pissed because she thinks he cares more about Aerith than her. To Cloud, it's big. In the sewers, the reason why he was so evasive, why so that Tifa wouldn't get bad ideas about his relationship with Aerith. However, this failed and made her more suspiscious. Now we're taking up a notch.

ch11-ltd07.jpg

Next thing we know, and Aerith, seeing how scared of ghosts Tifa is, takes Cloud's arm and goes "Don't worry! We have an awesome bodyguard! It's going to be ok!" - please note that even though Cloud's heart rate goes up (oh no there's a cute girl right next to me!!! She's taken my arm, what do I do???"), he's looking straight at Tifa there. He wants to see her reaction, and clearly, he still doesn't want her to misunderstand. Then Tifa reacts by taking his other arm - heart rate goes up :mon: - and clearly he's surprised by her reaction. The first angle is interesting, because we see him looking at her, but he agrees and the scene proceeds.

Next is "Tifa's turn". When the wagon falls on the three of them, he is closer to Aerith than Tifa. He's slightly on the right (where Aerith is), but this is where the next picture shows him:

ch11-ltd14.jpg

He's not even showing a slight hesitation, he's heading straight to the left, where Tifa is. I want to add that he did help Aerith with his arm too (she was actually the one more in danger, closer to the wagon...), but he covered Tifa with his whole body. And this time, when he asks "Are you okay?", we see who he is looking at:

ch11-ltd19.jpg

He's asking solely Tifa if she's ok, and Aerith still chimes in. I think this perfectly shows that in the first scene, Aerith answered because there was no reason for her to not answer. It's the same here, yet here he is specifically asking Tifa, showing her his care for her. He was able to protect her - be her hero - but also he wanted to show her that no matter what she was the important one. And the LT is answered in chapter 11 alone - where Cloud shows by his attitude to Tifa that she is "the one".

Now there's a specific thing that I talked with Peko; it was highlighted randomly by the Youtuber Materwelonz, who said during her playthrough "this game is very fast, it's almost as if it doesn't want you to sit down and think about the information they just gave you". I found this comment really interesting, and somehow put it in a corner of my mind. It is while thinking about chapter 11 again that I got around it again; by then, they had announced Ever Crisis; we had the creators claiming new fans should try the OG. It made me suspiscious. Back then I felt it, that they did not wish to push clerith like they did in the OG to further the illusion. Aerith breaks it in her own resolution that his feelings were not real. She laments it herself but she understands it and warns herself against falling for such a boy.

But, there wasn't even the need to get her resolution to get that feeling, because chapter 11 answers that, even though Cloud himself is not aware of his own feelings. But the thing is, in Remake, the illusion is maintained through the speed of the game. Remake is a very fast-paced game, because it does not want you to sit on information in general. There are breathers, like the one with Aerith on the roofs of Midgar - it is an important moment because we get to know Aerith, and the devs really wanted us to get attached to her. So it's one way they did it, we see her, her childish "t'es méchant !" to Cloud (meanie in English I suppose?), her fear of the outside, etc. We get to know her, specifically.

So to come back to chapter 11, the two "are you ok?" scenes are very fast; the first one gives a wrong impression, it furthers the idea that Cloud only asked Aerith and that Cloud may be more interested in Aerith than Tifa. Both players and Tifa are led to follow the illusion. The second save shows Cloud answering that problem that began in chapter 10. It all goes too fast for the eye to truly understand this - I had to slow down to the max to see Cloud just running immediately towards Tifa - however we see Cloud specifically looking at Tifa, for a long time. She answers, Aerith answers, and both Cloud and Tifa are still looking at each other. The broken trust is repaired, the story can go on. Even if you buy into the illusion, the fact that Cloud wanted to answer Tifa's concern is really clear - we see him frozen, we see him going all out to protect Tifa, we see him asking her specifically as if to show her that yes, she matters the most. The illusion simply entertains you with Aerith, and if you go over those scenes quickly, as the game demands, you feel that clerith and cloti have had similar scenes. The illusion is there because of the speed of the game, but the illusion does not hide which girl has Cloud's feelings, who he absolutely wants approval from. If you truly think about those scenes, the illusion can shatter. If you go like me in slomo through these scenes, then there will be no illusion.

The illusion being pushed by the game's speed is also true for the rest of the plot; you need to pause and think about what the characters say, to rewatch, to think about it truly, to absorb what they say. Or else you're just following a gust of wind, going too fast to truly understand wtf is going on. I think the way they push the illusion of Cloud being a Soldier is really well done - you can see the game slowing down for moments they want players to focus about, but then going fast when they want to further the illusion going on. It's not only about Cloud; they don't really want you to think for example that Red XIII only has a fraction of knowledge, he states things as he understands them, not necessarily as they are. And it's the same with all the characters, we get very biased views.

PS: I do have more screenshots if you want me to be more specific, choices had to be made because I only get 5 pictures :shifty:
 
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Thenir

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nirnaeth
Hahaha, thank for the laugh @KindOfBlue!

A little out of topic, but how much do you guys think the public perception of the game affects the development (story wise)? Like, people working on the project must be, at the very least, aware of forums like this one or reddit for example.

"Nobody really got what we wanted to say (or show) in this part of the game. Let's change the approach a little bit".
I'm sure somebody checks the major forums/sites (lol I feel sorry for that poor guy who has to keep a record of the twitter dramas), and yes, I think the perception people have of their games influences the new entries. They've been pretty coherent in putting to rest the worst misunderstandings of the story entry after entry (then, whether people accepted it or not is another matter). Anyway I don't think at all they waited for the fans' reaction about part 1 to take big decision about the following parts. The plot of the whole Remake has been already established from the very beginning, what could be influenced are the details.
 
The first scene is when they fall in the wagon.
I was expecting they to explain this scene in the last ultimania they released (materia ultimamos or something?) but they skipped it. Count me mad.

I agree for the most part but the way I see it he did only asked Aerith if she was ok. After seen Tifa in action for a while, and performing every gymnastic skill under the sun, one would expect she to land fine (just like he did), plus, he trusts her abilities a lot, she is his right hand for a reason.

When he noticed she did hurt herself and was trying to mask it up, we got the awkward reaction from both Cloud and Aerith. I feel this is when Aerith is peaking up in 4K that there is something going on between those two (something she noticed even before meeting Tifa) and proceeds to tease them right after.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I agree for the most part but the way I see it he did only asked Aerith if she was ok. After seen Tifa in action for a while, and performing every gymnastic skill under the sun, one would expect she to land fine (just like he did), plus, he trusts her abilities a lot, she is his right hand for a reason.
Again, I disagree because the first screenshot I posted... is his POV. Do you truly believe that Cloud would not ask Tifa TOO if she's ok, when she's still on the ground? That really does not compute. He's happy Aerith's OK, but Tifa is pissed because when she looks, he's nodding to Aerith. When she was hurt. But he did ask both. I can't see him processing the scene as is in the first screenshot and not asking both girls, especially since Tifa isn't up yet, contrarily to him and Aerith. It's not a question of trust, it's a general "is everyone OK?", so his worst fear - that Tifa would misunderstand - comes to life. He thought he got out of the sewers' question OK, but in the end, it just stirred up the problem as long as he had not given an answer to Tifa.
 
Again, I disagree because the first screenshot I posted... is his POV. Do you truly believe that Cloud would not ask Tifa TOO if she's ok, when she's still on the ground? That really does not compute.
When you put it like that I agree. I still think that particular scene and the other one where he is asking only Tifa are very awkward, I'm sorry lol
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
That's because it's part of the illusion SE is pushing at that moment, for the first scene. We all get to judge a bit hastily, until we can see in slomo what's truly happening behind the smoke. The feeling is that yes, both clerith and cloti got a similar scene, but what truly happened and what led Cloud to ask Tifa specifically are very different things, in the end. Boy feels the brunt of his misstep lol.
 

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
Hahaha, thank for the laugh @KindOfBlue!

A little out of topic, but how much do you guys think the public perception of the game affects the development (story wise)? Like, people working on the project must be, at the very least, aware of forums like this one or reddit for example.

"Nobody really got what we wanted to say (or show) in this part of the game. Let's change the approach a little bit".
The devs did mention something about how the remake would clarify some things about the OG by leaving less to the imagination in terms of how the characters are voiced and animated so I wonder if any of that could have anything to do with responding to the more questionable interpretations of the characters in the fanbase

I'm sure somebody checks the major forums/sites (lol I feel sorry for that poor guy who has to keep a record of the twitter dramas), and yes, I think the perception people have of their games influences the new entries. They've been pretty coherent in putting to rest the worst misunderstandings of the story entry after entry (then, whether people accepted it or not is another matter). Anyway I don't think at all they waited for the fans' reaction about part 1 to take big decision about the following parts. The plot of the whole Remake has been already established from the very beginning, what could be influenced are the details.
People actually hope they can harass the social media team enough to influence the direction of the story lmao
 

MiraTora

Lv. 1 Adventurer
AKA
Toraki
I really like how you wrote @Eerie. Somehow in my first playthrough I always aware that the devs are still playing around with LTD, and I didn’t like that. One side I think they are using illusion to trick the players, which kinda genius storytelling imo, but on the other hand, I think this kind of storytelling is so controversial that makes lots of people misunderstanding about the characters and obviously bashing the characters(such as “Tifa is the liar”, and this will strongly mention in part 2 for Kalm and NC, I really hope the devs try not to make players misunderstand about Tifa, especially
the last time was about Tifa’s decision when talking to Elmyra…)

Tbh, I was extremely afraid when I played Ch11 and how the devs will still keep LTD alive. This lead me to think about part 2 how they will bring LTD back again and this time will even stronger than part 1, and the biggest problem that makes me feel uncomfortable about LTD is how the devs make Tifa jealous when she saw something in Cloud and Aerith( it feels like the devs try to mock Tifa’s feelings for Cloud) somehow I prefer Clerith to have their own moment instead of insert Tifa in it. I just hope that they won’t play like that again in part 2, especially the fortune scene in OG was not so good and I hope I won’t see that scene in the next part
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
Yeah the same person started another "Aerith Vs Tifa" post some days ago where he ended up stating Cloud always lived at the church after the OG and basically only used Tifa as a babysitter for Denzel. When I provided him a timeline with quotes to show him he was objectively wrong, he got salty and asked for a "quote from Cloud" because Tifa's pov is unreliable since she thinks Cloud's her husband, so I quoted the end of The kids are alright and he got even saltier, denied the timeline, Cloud is pining, Tifa is deludent, clerith is canonyoucantproveclotiiscanonimrightyourewrong and at the end he was still convinced Cloud never lived at the bar.
I swear I just wrote a timeline lol.
That's the level.
And if you come with canon material, you are the enemy.
Clerith is a religion.
Were you trying to crush their faith in what is written in Clerith Bible as Words of God?
 

frosty

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Snowman
Phantasia said:
A little out of topic, but how much do you guys think the public perception of the game affects the development (story wise)? Like, people working on the project must be, at the very least, aware of forums like this one or reddit for example.
I'm not part of the gaming industry, but I'd say - it depends.

For dramas of the weekly release variety, the creators themselves camp out at forums and social media to gauge fan feedback and do one of the other:
1. Adjust scripting and shoot on the fly based on web comments
2. Shoot multiple variations of scenes, and Frankenstein them together, based on what would give them most ratings moving forward based on internet opinion

But these are mostly for romantic dramas, with a cost of production that is extremely low (i.e. mostly just shooting people, faces, the same sets of just a house) and the story can sometimes swing wildly from one plot to another.

Having to pivot an AAA game in the middle of production, would extremely painful. I believe Kitase said in a recent interview in managing the change to 3D from pixels way back for FFVII OG, he made a lot of mistakes as he thought changes could come easily. He mentioned asking the CG team to edit some FMV (something he thought was minor), and it cost the production team millions of yen, and he said it was an painful, expensive lesson to learn at that time.

If it's anything similar to my industry, I can see them making changes based on internet opinion only at a few stages - storyboarding, which should have been be at least 2-5 years prior to actual development, because that sets the ground rules of what should be motion captured and subsequently programmed, and maybe at some rough or final cut stages i.e. editing - which is to mean it's at the 50 to 70% completion mark, with the full sequence laid out / mostly shot / and all that's left is to cobble everything together - and they get to review omit or cut which scenes make it to the final.

By and large, main plot points would already have been laid out in stone, scripts and some localizations approved already. Any further changes, are probably reserved for big matters: Differing censorship laws in various countries, issues that might threaten distribution etc.

The idea that they'd change something because, idk, the internet is screaming that Cloud looked at Aerith funny, is laughable.

KindofBlue said:
People actually hope they can harass the social media team enough to influence the direction of the story lmao
These people don't even realize that the soc med page handler is usually outsourced to a PR/soc med company to handle multiple pages at one go, and have almost 0 connection with the creators itself lol.

Makoeyes987 said:
At some point they're either going to wise up and open their minds to what the narrative presents, or further isolate and silo themselves from anyone, anything and all stories that challenge the utopic vision they've created for themselves regarding Cloud and Aerith's relationship.
IDK if isolate is what they'll do. I think they'll do LOUD COMPLAINING of some variant of the following.

1) SE copped out and pandered to an audience who only like Tifa for her boobs. Nomura / Nojima / Kitase / The soc med handler are money grubbing sell outs
2) Zack is a terribly written character
3) Cloud might have ended up with Tifa, but he's misearable with her.
 
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KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
IDK if isolate is what they'll do. I think they'll do LOUD COMPLAINING of some variant of the following.

1) SE copped out and pandered to an audience who only like Tifa for her boobs. Nomura / Nojima / Kitase / The soc med handler are money grubbing sell outs
2) Zack is a terribly written character
3) Cloud might have ended up with Tifa, but he's misearable with her.
I’d wholly expect that part of the fanbase to get louder if the kind of conformation I’m hoping for ends up happening, though I’d say that would at least make them seem even more delusional to still be holding on so strongly to something that is so clearly not what they hoped it would be
 
I’d wholly expect that part of the fanbase to get louder if the kind of conformation I’m hoping for ends up happening, though I’d say that would at least make them seem even more delusional to still be holding on so strongly to something that is so clearly not what they hoped it would be
I'm remembering these:

(It's SFW btw, they just named the complication of posts like that)

Bleach Hall of An*l Devastation:


Naruto Hall of An*l Devastation:

 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
You realise your first fanart is the "winning" team mocking the other side, right? Again I'd advocate to not take Bleach as a referential in fandom because I have lived through it and I've seen some of the most vile people in that fandom (one of my friend still has trauma thanks to them, and yes they still chase after IchiRuki fans who just ship in their corner, because apparently that's enough to sour their joy). Also because when an author likes a lot of IchiRuki tweets, raves about IchiRuki super shippy musical and al, we can guess that somewhere in between he did change his mind.
 

Ryeleigh

Lv. 1 Adventurer
AKA
Rye
Um, Bleach is an atrocious example of LTD. On the other hand, it's a good example of "just because something is canon, it doesn't mean it's good". But this thread isn't about Bleach so I'll leave it at that.
 
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