SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

rkss

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Me
In Chinese "認識" the most common translation is "to conceive" or to put into words "to form a mental image(in your head)".
"Perceive", "Register" are acceptable.
"Recognize" is also acceptable but without context, I don't think the implication of "having encountered before; know again. " is a common translation.

But I'm an ESL, dunno if those words are used synonymously in English.
 

thetriplerhyme

Lv. 1 Adventurer
AKA
thetriplerhyme
Yeah this is nothing new, we did say that the next part(s) are going to be like that? I still think Aerith will fall in love with Cloud, as much as it pains me to see her like this in her resolution. But once they'll have to go full cloti, they won't hold back either.
Hi~ thanks for saying this! In OG i never really understood Aerith all that much after crisis core it kinda makes sense now. I really don't like the idea of her falling in love for Cloud

1. Zack tried hard to get back with that dramatic DMW. Its not that I don't want Aerith to move on but I kinda looking for the same passion she have for him * even in FF7R* If her heart will somehow change / move on to another guy. I'm looking for something big / more connection for two of them much more than Zerith.

2. Its much more harder for her because we all know Cloud's true feelings can only be for Tifa.
------------------------

But again I don't wanna be hard on Aerith its not her fault that Zack died and she did deserve happiness.
 

thetriplerhyme

Lv. 1 Adventurer
AKA
thetriplerhyme
Listen, I will just repeat myself; the devs threaded carefully all the characters and their relationships with each other, and that is why to me, it sounds very unplausible. There is just no way that Aerith wouldn't have met "Cloud", or at least the one that's fucked up in his head. He's not a clone. But people are definitely going to doubt up until the Lifestream scene where everything is revealed.

And people make those theories while the game *shows* the real Cloud beneath, as well as his real memories. So it shouldn't even be on the table; we're not going to play with a clone for 2 full games before miraculously the real one shows up. That Cloud is able to make his own connections with people, and, to be very frank, living his dream thanks to Jenova (because he believes he was closer to Tifa than what he truly was, allowing him to act in ways his shy arse would never had before) is completely part of the game. We are supposed to see Cloud grow and to worry and to cheer up for him. If we are robbed of the Cloud we knew for 2 whole games, this makes no freaking sense, it would be bad development.
- The time travel theory always triggers me for my own sanity I'm trying my best as well not to be engage.
- devs specifically said many times this is the same damned game and they're just expanding them to match with rest of the compilation.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I've been coming to a slow realisation, thanks to @TurquoiseHammer's translations, and especially the one with Tifa's resolution; I think that Cloud, the current one as he is now, is unable to "love" as we mean it. I've made a whole Twitter thread about it but since my Twitter is locked, I thought I'd post it here:

I think this realisation is one that came slowly - we talked a lot with Peko about Cloud's reactions to traumatic events, I'll be back to it - but was solidify by the Ultimania's description of Tifa's resolution, and in hindsight, Aerith's as well. Let's go!

I think the first comment was Peko who once told me "Cloud's reaction to Jessie's death is weird" followed by "it's like he's not feeling anything, or really muted". While it's not really what's happening there (the Ulti does say he doesnt know YET that he can cry to mourn a fallen companion; notice the YET? Because he's going to learn that with Aerith). However, I feel that was the start. Starting looking at how he reacted to Sephiroth playing with him, how he reacted to the vision of Aerith dying, and most importantly what do the Ultimanias said about such or such scene?

Looking back at the OG, I feel that they did expand on his character; but whatever Cloud does they kept him unaware of the girls' feelings for him.

And the basis to that, for me, is that one thing: Cloud as he is, in his fake persona, cannot understand what true love is. He is unable to explain his relationship with Tifa *because* he's unable to unlock the meaning of these feelings. They are hidden, even to him. Cloud is complicated in his head, there's no denying it. He's attracted to Aerith, but at the same time, he will give a LOT of attention to Tifa and agree to everything she says or wants. Even if he hates it (see: letting her go see Corneo alone).

But then, Aerith tells him "you can't fall in love with me (which part she also says to herself), but IF you think you did, than it's all your IMAGINATION". This is, I think a double entendre; we know that it's related to the OG and the fact that true Cloud's love is Tifa. It's also a reference to the fact that the player chose if Cloud fell for Aerith or not (which is why his feelings for Aerith have never and will never be canon; because they differ from a player to another). However, the fact that Briana, her EN VA said that Cloud is not emotionally available is yet another pointer (and so did Marle). What if Aerith said that also because Cloud, as he is, is simply unable to love anyone?

Let's see what about Tifa's resolution then?

In Tifa's resolution, we are told a few things:

- that true Cloud comes out;
- that he's (a bit too) happy to be her hero;
- that it's romantic;
- that he doesn't understand Tifa's feelings.

In Aerith's resolution, he was utterly confused about what she told him. Do you see the pattern?

Cloud is unable to understand the girls' feelings; the only really strong feeling he ever displayed during Remake was when Sephiroth toyed with him about his mother. When he cried for the memory of Aerith's death, he didn't understand. Cloud right now is 16 in his head and the worst thing? He's getting owned and manipulated by an alien installed in his cells. Which doesn't really help - Cloud was, at 16, an akward boy, someone who's really not used to social interactions which SHOWS in Remake. But the thing with Jenova? Totally messes him up.

Even if you look at Cloud once he's back to himself in the OG, he still didn't understand Aerith. Cloud in his SOLDIER self IMAGINES what "being in love" must be, just like he imagines being an ex-SOLDIER. To me, this is the way that Remake uses to push the illusion through the LT, more than the LT in itself. If Cloud understood what love is, he'd look at his feelings for Tifa which he is unable to, because he's being cockblocked by Jenova.

So yes, Cloud is unable to love. And I think it's really wanted by the devs because "love" is only unlocked when he gets to be himself again. It's one of the things that will really separate SOLDIER Cloud from his true self.

Yes, but Tifa you will ask? His true self shows up! Yes, he does, but he does not often. What we see mostly is him being relaxed and himself around her, not his *TRUE* self. His true feelings are here, yes, and he doesn't understand them. He's not able to fully love her and that is why he makes a blunder in her resolution; yes he was desperate to be her hero, to console her, but if he had understood her, he'd be as devastated as she was, because it's THEIR loss. Only his true self will be able to connect fully with her which is pretty logical and why I don't think we'll get more than what we got in part 1 (I fully expect the dynamics of the ships to remain the same).

Yes, we can see that Cloud is kind, that he does bond with people, that he cares about them. But feelings that are too deep, too raw - and that includes love - are definitely being blocked by Jenova who doesn't want to lose her puppet, especially seeing his importance re: Sephiroth. Clearly Jenova is disconnecting him from feelings that are deep and raw, maybe in the fear they'd lose him too early.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
@frosty: this is because it's not their personal account, these are fan accounts. I know I was weirded out too.

Honestly these days feel so bizarre lol. Peko tagged me in an innocuous tweet about something we discussed about Aerith's resolution, and she got trolls harrassing her and a LOT of CAs I've never ever seen have blocked me (even though my account is private lol). Not that I care: I *never* search the CA tag lol. I stumble upon what they say through CT convos.

Speaking of stumbling into shit, I'd really appreciate them stopping the spite shipping with Tifa which is ridiculous (Zack, Johnny, Barret, Rude). And when I mean ridiculous, I mean they say it's more canon than cloti which is supposedely a "crack ship" (I've never called CA that way, and I think it's just an unrequited love from Aerith, eh). They're honestly looking for trouble at this point.

Also to add to this: saying that Tifa's memories are unreliable and that she's an unreliable narrator. No, Cloud is the very definition of that. Stop trying to twist the story.

And that's just the surface shit of the last days, I'm just perplexed because all these claims are just so out there like... You're not shipping CA anymore? All you do is try to troll clotis? It's getting really ridiculous and going all over the CT tag. Is it because cloti trended so much last week in a way or another, I do wonder. I just don't get it.
 

thetriplerhyme

Lv. 1 Adventurer
AKA
thetriplerhyme
@frosty:

Speaking of stumbling into shit, I'd really appreciate them stopping the spite shipping with Tifa which is ridiculous (Zack, Johnny, Barret, Rude). And when I mean ridiculous, I mean they say it's more canon than cloti which is supposedely a "crack ship" (I've never called CA that way, and I think it's just an unrequited love from Aerith, eh). They're honestly looking for trouble at this point.

Also to add to this: saying that Tifa's memories are unreliable and that she's an unreliable narrator. No, Cloud is the very definition of that. Stop trying to twist the story.

And that's just the surface shit of the last days, I'm just perplexed because all these claims are just so out there like... You're not shipping CA anymore? All you do is try to troll clotis? It's getting really ridiculous and going all over the CT tag. Is it because cloti trended so much last week in a way or another, I do wonder. I just don't get it.
With CCReunion on the way and whole a lot translation from turtoise has been completed. A lot of Aerith's death has been obviously foreshadow they're anxious and hence they're doing all they can to twist characters. Its disgusting...
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I've been coming to a slow realisation, thanks to @TurquoiseHammer's translations, and especially the one with Tifa's resolution; I think that Cloud, the current one as he is now, is unable to "love" as we mean it. I've made a whole Twitter thread about it but since my Twitter is locked, I thought I'd post it here:

I think this realisation is one that came slowly - we talked a lot with Peko about Cloud's reactions to traumatic events, I'll be back to it - but was solidify by the Ultimania's description of Tifa's resolution, and in hindsight, Aerith's as well. Let's go!

I think the first comment was Peko who once told me "Cloud's reaction to Jessie's death is weird" followed by "it's like he's not feeling anything, or really muted". While it's not really what's happening there (the Ulti does say he doesnt know YET that he can cry to mourn a fallen companion; notice the YET? Because he's going to learn that with Aerith). However, I feel that was the start. Starting looking at how he reacted to Sephiroth playing with him, how he reacted to the vision of Aerith dying, and most importantly what do the Ultimanias said about such or such scene?

Looking back at the OG, I feel that they did expand on his character; but whatever Cloud does they kept him unaware of the girls' feelings for him.

And the basis to that, for me, is that one thing: Cloud as he is, in his fake persona, cannot understand what true love is. He is unable to explain his relationship with Tifa *because* he's unable to unlock the meaning of these feelings. They are hidden, even to him. Cloud is complicated in his head, there's no denying it. He's attracted to Aerith, but at the same time, he will give a LOT of attention to Tifa and agree to everything she says or wants. Even if he hates it (see: letting her go see Corneo alone).

But then, Aerith tells him "you can't fall in love with me (which part she also says to herself), but IF you think you did, than it's all your IMAGINATION". This is, I think a double entendre; we know that it's related to the OG and the fact that true Cloud's love is Tifa. It's also a reference to the fact that the player chose if Cloud fell for Aerith or not (which is why his feelings for Aerith have never and will never be canon; because they differ from a player to another). However, the fact that Briana, her EN VA said that Cloud is not emotionally available is yet another pointer (and so did Marle). What if Aerith said that also because Cloud, as he is, is simply unable to love anyone?

Let's see what about Tifa's resolution then?

In Tifa's resolution, we are told a few things:

- that true Cloud comes out;
- that he's (a bit too) happy to be her hero;
- that it's romantic;
- that he doesn't understand Tifa's feelings.

In Aerith's resolution, he was utterly confused about what she told him. Do you see the pattern?

Cloud is unable to understand the girls' feelings; the only really strong feeling he ever displayed during Remake was when Sephiroth toyed with him about his mother. When he cried for the memory of Aerith's death, he didn't understand. Cloud right now is 16 in his head and the worst thing? He's getting owned and manipulated by an alien installed in his cells. Which doesn't really help - Cloud was, at 16, an akward boy, someone who's really not used to social interactions which SHOWS in Remake. But the thing with Jenova? Totally messes him up.
I have one nitpick with this, and that's people saying Cloud is 16 mentally. He is absolutely stunted but he didn't just stop being aware for four years. Cloud was aware for at least part of the experimentation based on him and Zack communicating through scratches on their chambers and that suggests he's got all THAT baggage going on.

@frosty: this is because it's not their personal account, these are fan accounts. I know I was weirded out too.

Honestly these days feel so bizarre lol. Peko tagged me in an innocuous tweet about something we discussed about Aerith's resolution, and she got trolls harrassing her and a LOT of CAs I've never ever seen have blocked me (even though my account is private lol). Not that I care: I *never* search the CA tag lol. I stumble upon what they say through CT convos.

Speaking of stumbling into shit, I'd really appreciate them stopping the spite shipping with Tifa which is ridiculous (Zack, Johnny, Barret, Rude). And when I mean ridiculous, I mean they say it's more canon than cloti which is supposedely a "crack ship" (I've never called CA that way, and I think it's just an unrequited love from Aerith, eh). They're honestly looking for trouble at this point.

Also to add to this: saying that Tifa's memories are unreliable and that she's an unreliable narrator. No, Cloud is the very definition of that. Stop trying to twist the story.

And that's just the surface shit of the last days, I'm just perplexed because all these claims are just so out there like... You're not shipping CA anymore? All you do is try to troll clotis? It's getting really ridiculous and going all over the CT tag. Is it because cloti trended so much last week in a way or another, I do wonder. I just don't get it.
It's like it's the late 90s and early 2000s again.

I’m lost, what’s the lore here?
Long ago a Clerith wrote a fake interview in support for C/A as a pairing being "totally canon" in Japan. Among the many signs of being bullshit was that the interview was conducted in a Wacdonalds.
 

jeangl123

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Jean
1663557509928.jpeg
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11Ey8erdaGIt1PdrmeaZMnVRgokNTNj6ji_iq1deYwB8/edit
I mean the developers even say that he is so the claim isn't unfounded.
https://www.inverse.com/gaming/ff7-remake-interview-story-changes-cloud-jessie-wall-market

I'm also not sure at what point those scratches were made since Zack breaks the glass in Crisis Core instead of escaping during feeding time like in the OG.

Long ago a Clerith wrote a fake interview in support for C/A as a pairing being "totally canon" in Japan. Among the many signs of being bullshit was that the interview was conducted in a Wacdonalds.
Lol would you happened to have this interview? How long ago was it if they said it took place in a McDonalds?
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
My points is not that he's more mature than a 16 year old. My point is that he's got the social skills you'd expect of a 16 year old AND years of trauma on top.

I'm also not sure at what point those scratches were made since Zack breaks the glass in Crisis Core instead of escaping during feeding time like in the OG.
True. I don't suspect either of them were coherent all the time, given how heavily they were both being dosed.

Lol would you happened to have this interview? How long ago was it if they said it took place in a McDonalds?
Not McDonalds, WacDonalds. And I will see. This is over a decade old at this point. Much of that internet is gone.

EDIT: Ahah! Found a transcription and some screenshots.

https://destinyfailed.blogspot.com/2007/06/real-life-fake-japanese-people.html

EDIT AGAIN: The transcription is a parody, the screenshots are the original fake interview.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
@Ryushikaze Zack in CC wasn’t aware so much time passed since they had been taken and experimented on, there’s no way Cloud does. It shows a few times very well that Cloud is really young in his head and trying to play cool instead, it actually explains a lot of his behaviour. Nojima commented on it, and I think it’s really an important trait of his character.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
@Ryushikaze Zack in CC wasn’t aware so much time passed since they had been taken and experimented on, there’s no way Cloud does. It shows a few times very well that Cloud is really young in his head and trying to play cool instead, it actually explains a lot of his behaviour. Nojima commented on it, and I think it’s really an important trait of his character.
Zack Was surprised four years had passed, but was aware they'd been trapped for some time. Again, I am not arguing Cloud is Mature. I am arguing Cloud is extra fucked due to being an experiment.

He's not perfectly aware, but he IS aware, even when he's a vegetable. Cloud is ~16 with loads of repressed and half remembered traumatic memories. That's my point.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Oh on that we agree then lol. I just feel it when I watch or play just how much Cloud is 16 in his head. It shows a lot in chapter 3 but also in the way he reacts with Aerith - playing what he thinks is cool. Cloud is very inexperienced when it comes to social interactions and that shows.
 
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