SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Graymouse]

It wasn't a bad translation per se. It that context it just meant Aerith liked Cloud as per her point of view and not that they were in a relationship or something (bc well they weren't). But then again.. I don't speak Japanese so I just went by what good people who do have explained to me

I think someone mentioned earlier that there are a lot of things that are thought to be true about Cloud and Aerith but are actually far from the truth. If you have the time. It is a good read.

http://www.ananswerwithinthestars.com/2018/02/clerith-lies.html

Yeah, that is the point I was making. That it was from Aerith's point of view, not from Nojima point of view. The moment Nojima supported the English version and confirmed with his own words that it is from the characters perspective and not his own removed all validity from the Cloud X Aerith claims.

 

[Final_Heaven]

Nojima wrote that Cloud and Aerith were lovers, and so far for this game people can say CxA isn't romantic or Cloud is mean to Aerith or whatever all they want but they wrote three segments of this game with romance in mind during CxA parts backed by official statements (Sector 6/route to Wall Market, park, Wall Market), Nojima also tweeted a photo of Cloud and Aerith figures and the victory statue, and Hamuguchi told a CxA person they would give them the perfect answer.

To be fair, that person wasn't saying that Cloud was mean to Aerith just that Cloud was meaner to Aerith comparing it to the OG whereas he's nicer to Tifa in the Remake comparing it to the OG. And that person had only played the first 3 chapters of the story when they said that.

Said person also hardcore ships Cloud and Aerith so I take a lot of value in the opinion who says something the opposite of what they want.

 

[RhinoKart]

I think someone mentioned earlier that there are a lot of things that are thought to be true about Cloud and Aerith but are actually far from the truth. If you have the time. It is a good read.

http://www.ananswerwithinthestars.com/2018/02/clerith-lies.html

Yeah, that is the point I was making. That it was from Aerith's point of view, not from Nojima point of view. The moment Nojima supported the English version and confirmed with his own words that it is from the characters perspective and not his own removed all validity from the Cloud X Aerith claims.

Graymouse, I love your posts and seriously respect your opinion, BUT simply from the URL alone I don't think that site is going to be considered unbiased enough to change anyone's mind.... It's clearly set up to be very pro-Cloti.

 

[Graymouse]

Graymouse, I love your posts and seriously respect your opinion, BUT simply from the URL alone I don't think that site is going to be considered unbiased enough to change anyone's mind.... It's clearly set up to be very pro-Cloti.

Very valid and true, I can see that could be a slight problem however, did you read what is on the page? The author used references that anyone has access to. I felt that the entire piece was factual and not opinionated. I could be wrong. Let me go back through it again and check to make sure.

Edited to add.

I can see, there are some things in there that are not down the middle as much as I thought they were. I apologize. I wasn't really trying to convince anyone otherwise anyways. People have their own opinions on these very important topics.

 

[Final_Heaven]

I agree, but the compilation is canon to the remake. If Cloud dies at the end of remake, then how could he be alive in AC, OTWTAS, and DoC?

Different timeline. OG timeline still happened and Dirge is its endpoint.

Remake is its own timeline with most of the same elements.

As far as I'm concerned it's romantic for both of them.

**

“There is a scene where Cloud and Aerith walk while looking at the night sky in front of the Suzuki Cave Road, but it's a very romantic and nice atmosphere”

~ Mitsuto Suzuki | Composer

I think the park scene and Wall Market statements were already discussed here but there is also this.

My favorite Clerith shippers are the ones that sees both characters as valid love interests and they just prefer Clerith rather than ones that tell me that Cloti is wrong, invalid and would never happen.

 

[RhinoKart]

Very valid and true, I can see that could be a slight problem however, did you read what is on the page? The author used references that anyone has access to. I felt that the entire piece was factual and not opinionated. I could be wrong. Let me go back through it again and check to make sure.

I mean I'm a Cloti and am reading it now and thoroughly enjoying it lol. I just mean if I came across a Clerith site that titled its article "Cloti lies" I would probably automatically just assume what I was reading was cherry picked.

I also was not around for the great koibito debate but from the responses it seems to trigger in people I'm going to guess it will forever be one of those debates that neither side is going to have a change of mind over, regardless of who was right or who was wrong.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Tres-

Originally posted on Nojima's Instagram apparently but I'll have to see if I can find his Instagram and check if the OP is still up at a later date (sleepy ..) ?

 

[Graymouse]

I mean I'm a Cloti and am reading it now and thoroughly enjoying it lol. I just mean if I came across a Clerith site that titled its article "Cloti lies" I would probably automatically just assume what I was reading was cherry picked.

I also was not around for the great koibito debate but from the responses it seems to trigger in people I'm going to guess it will forever be one of those debates that neither side is going to have a change of mind over, regardless of who was right or who was wrong.

The URL, is in bad taste, honestly until you mentioned it I hadn't noticed that it said clerith lies at the end of it. I posted it in good faith. I can see it would not encourage anyone on the opposite side to take serious.

 

[LNK]

Different timeline. OG timeline still happened and Dirge is its endpoint.

Remake is its own timeline with most of the same elements.

Where did you get that info from?

From an interview I read in March and the ultimania, the remake is not its own timeline, separate from the compilation.

The only things separate from each other, are the OG and remake.

https://www.vg247.com/2020/03/02/final-fantasy-7-remake-interview/

That's the interview. Here's what was asked and said...

VG247: So I’m pretty sure that after Sephiroth appears and you’re walking around the streets of Midgar, that’s a music track from Advent Children. [We later verified this; the music track is a new arrangement of ‘The Promised Land‘ from 2005 FF7 sequel movie Advent Children.] I was surprised to hear that. I realize [Tetsuya] Nomura-san said before that the remake is in a different continuity to the FF7 projects from the past, but I’m curious about how much of the compilation ideas you wanted to bring into the game. Hearing music from the compilation that never appeared in the original FF7 was a pleasant surprise.

Yoshinori Kitase: I can’t give you full details exactly how many times, where they’re referenced, or anything like that, but what I want to let you know is that all of the lore from the works created after the original game, the Compilation of Final Fantasy 7, that’s all very much in the base of the canon for the remake, and going forward it will be too.

 

[MasterMoogle]

I'm surprised there isn't more discussion about the Chrono Cross parallels (like AU timelines and literally killing Fate). If that gets out we'll REALLY start to hear about star crossed lovers searching through time and space.

Doubt it. Cloud and Aerith aren't star-crossed lovers. They're romantically-confused friends, at best.

Not that I disagree with your statement specifically, but are you implying "Midgar Blues" is also a reference to Zerith? Because if so, I'll have to disagree. Like minami above said, it's pretty obvious it refers to Cloud and Tifa. Literally everything in the lyrics screams Cloti: leaving his hometown for Midgar without having said his goodbye to the person with whom he watched the starry sky of their hometown (when Zack left Gongaga to come to Midgar, he hasn't even met Aerith yet). Furthermore, the 'starry sky' is more a motif for Cloti than Zerith. And the pretty telling "unshrinking distance between my heart and yours" wouldn't be applicable to Zerith.

I know the in-universe singer-songwriter of Midgar Blues isn't Cloud, but given that this is a pretty blatant reference to the Cloti relationship, this is further proof of how important the promise is to Cloud, perhaps arguably even more so to him than Tifa. He wasn't forced into it as some others claim; he truly wanted to be needed by Tifa and he kept their promise very close to his heart.

I'm glad that the developers included this song in the remake. It's fun that there are 'clues' to be found in this song. So, Midgar Blues Clues?

I wasn't talking about the song. I was only talking about the water tower and its relevance to both Cloti and Zerith.

The only difference now is that this is the canon depictions of the characters, in the universe of the game from which they came from

I get what you're saying about the AU/timeline stuff being undefined, and that some theorycrafting is more legitimate than others... but to be fair... at a certain point, that's on the storytelling for not defining the rules by which these things operate, and not really on the audience for arriving at faulty conclusions. I would argue that introducing AU/timelines inherently gives more credibility to ideas like the Kingdom Hearts versions of the characters being the same people

I'm not convinced that's their intention, but I don't think it's... not not their intention

All I am saying is that it's difficult to be dismissive of shipper nonsense anymore when there is pretty equivalent nonsense that's been presented in the narrative+creators themselves, as it stands right now. Cloud having adulterous rendezvous with Aerith in a field of flowers isn't any less silly than the suggestion of there being two Buster Swords roaming around, or that a potato chip bag is the key to understanding all the universe's questions

Whatever it all means, we don't know of course, but it's concretely there in the story now. Moreso than when it was simply characters making cameo appearances in other games.

Not really. Cloud as a character doesn't change in the AU. He's still all about Tifa, but his brain is broken.

 

[odekopeko]

All this great discussion and I'm wondering wth everyone is going on about koibito for?

Didn't Aerith ask Cloud if Tifa was his "koibito" when he suddenly called out her name? I loved the way Aerith clasps her hands together like she's imagining all sorts of wild, romantic escapades. She's my spirit animal.

Aerith: ティファって クラウドの恋人？
Tifa'te Cloud no koibito?
Is Tifa your girlfriend?

Cloud: ちがう
Chigau.
That's not it.

Aerith: ムキになってる
Muki ni natteru
You're getting all defensive.

And for those of you who can understand Japanese: しょうがないから、まだ告白してないもんね。?

Btw why didn't Cloud just say she's a friend? He said she was an "old friend" when he was with Tifa, but he can't just tell Aerith the same thing he said then? He gave the weirdest response ever.

Recently I've seen shippers consulting their friend's Japanese professor to explain how Cloud saying むかえにいく/mukae ni iku to Aerith automatically spells romance. Is this a thing? I don't mean you can't find his words romantic because I can see it that way too. I like CxA interactions too. I mean the consulting a Japanese professor thing?

 

[RhinoKart]

All this great discussion and I'm wondering wth everyone is going on about koibito for?

Didn't Aerith ask Cloud if Tifa was his "koibito" when he suddenly called out her name? I loved the way Aerith clasps her hands together like she's imagining all sorts of wild, romantic escapades. She's my spirit animal.

Aerith: ティファって クラウドの恋人？
Tifa'te Cloud no koibito?
Is Tifa your girlfriend?

Cloud: ちがう
Chigau.
That's not it.

Aerith: ムキになってる
Muki ni natteru
You're getting all defensive.

And for those of you who can understand Japanese: しょうがないから、まだ告白してないもんね。?

Btw why didn't Cloud just say she's a friend? He said she was an "old friend" when he was with Tifa, but he can't just tell Aerith the same thing he said then? He gave the weirdest response ever.

Recently I've seen shippers consulting their friend's Japanese professor to explain how Cloud saying むかえにいく/mukae ni iku to Aerith automatically spells romance. Is this a thing? I don't mean you can't find his words romantic because I can see it that way too. I like CxA interactions too. I mean the consulting a Japanese professor thing?

The English dub has that scene read as:

Aerith: Is Tifa your girlfriend?

Cloud: No.

Aerith: But she's someone special.

Cloud: It's not like that... it's more like, I don't know how to explain.


And to the professor thing, I saw that post floating around on some Clerith twitter accounts, maybe it is real? They were trying to determine if the pharse "I'm coming for you" had automatic romantic connotations in Japanese. From what I recall the professor said that the word/phrase itself wasn't romantic but within the context that it seemed to be given it was. The professor then asked if the girl in question was returning to another world, or if he had misunderstood what was being said, which I thought was way more interesting an observation but I also speak zero japanese so I can't really offer any insight on it.

 

[Strangelove]

oh man do not ask about 'koi bito', ignorance is much better

 

[ForceStealer]

The one Japanese vocabulary word I wish I didn't know

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

むかえにいく...

Is this a call-out to the line at the end of the OG, when they say, "Let's go meet her"? I'm specifically asking whether the same word/phrasing is used there (though of course a different verb tense).

 

[Strangelove]

the ff7 ending line was 会いに行こう, so not quite the same

 

[Final_Heaven]

All this great discussion and I'm wondering wth everyone is going on about koibito for?

Didn't Aerith ask Cloud if Tifa was his "koibito" when he suddenly called out her name? I loved the way Aerith clasps her hands together like she's imagining all sorts of wild, romantic escapades. She's my spirit animal.

Aerith: ティファって クラウドの恋人？
Tifa'te Cloud no koibito?
Is Tifa your girlfriend?

Cloud: ちがう
Chigau.
That's not it.

Aerith: ムキになってる
Muki ni natteru
You're getting all defensive.

And for those of you who can understand Japanese: しょうがないから、まだ告白してないもんね。?

Btw why didn't Cloud just say she's a friend? He said she was an "old friend" when he was with Tifa, but he can't just tell Aerith the same thing he said then? He gave the weirdest response ever.

Recently I've seen shippers consulting their friend's Japanese professor to explain how Cloud saying むかえにいく/mukae ni iku to Aerith automatically spells romance. Is this a thing? I don't mean you can't find his words romantic because I can see it that way too. I like CxA interactions too. I mean the consulting a Japanese professor thing?

For us here, who can't speak Japanese, your viewpoint is extremely valuable since we can't experience the game in the original language. Some dubs take too many liberaties.

Like when Jessie dies, Cloud sees Tifa in distress and says a gentle "Tifa" whereas in the English Dub, he says "Hey". It gives off a different feeling.

Or like when Wedge and Johnny start calling Cloud "bro" which has different connotations in English versus Japanese, I think.

I'm guessing he says "aniki" in Japanese. I don't know if Wedge/Johnny calling Cloud a "aniki" is supposed to be super weird.

 

[Graymouse]

All this great discussion and I'm wondering wth everyone is going on about koibito for?

Didn't Aerith ask Cloud if Tifa was his "koibito" when he suddenly called out her name? I loved the way Aerith clasps her hands together like she's imagining all sorts of wild, romantic escapades. She's my spirit animal.

Aerith: ティファって クラウドの恋人？
Tifa'te Cloud no koibito?
Is Tifa your girlfriend?

Cloud: ちがう
Chigau.
That's not it.

Aerith: ムキになってる
Muki ni natteru
You're getting all defensive.

And for those of you who can understand Japanese: しょうがないから、まだ告白してないもんね。?

Btw why didn't Cloud just say she's a friend? He said she was an "old friend" when he was with Tifa, but he can't just tell Aerith the same thing he said then? He gave the weirdest response ever.

Recently I've seen shippers consulting their friend's Japanese professor to explain how Cloud saying むかえにいく/mukae ni iku to Aerith automatically spells romance. Is this a thing? I don't mean you can't find his words romantic because I can see it that way too. I like CxA interactions too. I mean the consulting a Japanese professor thing?

Shōga nai! Shōga nai! I guess it can't be helped.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The moment Nojima supported the English version and confirmed with his own words that it is from the characters perspective and not his own removed all validity from the Cloud X Aerith claims.

Wait, when did this happen?

 

[Master Bates]

Is this a thing? I mean the consulting a Japanese professor thing?

Oh, you sweet summer child.

 

[Graymouse]

Wait, when did this happen?

I think this is an opinion statement. We were talking about Nojima calling Aerith and Cloud lovers. Nojima himself never said that, What happened was that it was from Aerith's POV and not from Nojima's point of view.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I think this is an opinion statement. We were talking about Nojima calling Aerith and Cloud lovers. Nojima himself never said that, What happened was that it was from Aerith's POV and not from Nojima's point of view.

I'm asking about the "The moment Nojima supported the English version ..." bit. When did that happen?

 

[MasterMoogle]

I think this is an opinion statement. We were talking about Nojima calling Aerith and Cloud lovers. Nojima himself never said that, What happened was that it was from Aerith's POV and not from Nojima's point of view.

But even that statement doesn't make sense. Cloud and Aerith were objectively NEVER "lovers."

 

[odekopeko]

Feels like you all feel some type of way about the koi and the bito.

むかえにいく...

Is this a call-out to the line at the end of the OG, when they say, "Let's go meet her"? I'm specifically asking whether the same word/phrasing is used there (though of course a different verb tense).

It was the line Cloud says to Aerith in her Resolution scene. Like @RhinoKart mentioned, I saw it on going around twitter.

@Final_Heaven Some stuff doesn't translate well from Japanese to English, but I do personally feel the English translation is pretty good. Just a few things that got switched up or removed, probably to make the dialog flow more naturally.

 

[looneymoon]

I had a friend who was a big Cloud/Aerith shipper. She also told me, in an unrelated conversation, that she hooked up with someone while watching Finding Nemo. Ever since then I had this internal thought that theres some sort of underlying fetishistic appeal connecting Cloud/Aerith to carp/fish.