SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[r_monk]

I just can't believe that post quite literally missed the entire point of Cloud's character arc to say he was jealous before he then kisses Tifa. Its like the whole rest of the game is being forgotten. The last thing cloud would be thinking of is, well that Zack guy who is missing is my rival against Aerith. Not the whole why don't I remember this guy everyone else does from the same memory I have. This take just butchers the characters, and they wrote a whole essay on it?

Yeah, that just isn't in character for Cloud. He does not strike me as someone who'd be petty and act on said pettiness to the point of leading someone else on. Like.... wut.

 

[loozzer]

Spoiler

I just can't believe that post quite literally missed the entire point of Cloud's character arc to say he was jealous before he then kisses Tifa. Its like the whole rest of the game is being forgotten. The last thing cloud would be thinking of is, well that Zack guy who is missing is my rival against Aerith. Not the whole why don't I remember this guy everyone else does from the same memory I have. This take just butchers the characters, and they wrote a whole essay on it?

The cloud kisses her because he's jealous idea is like the worst take ever LOL. so he either

1. didn't really like aerith that much cause damn he moved on quick after getting jealous. or
2. he's actually a truly horrible person who is leading tifa on and using her after learning that he can't be with the one person he truly wants.

let's accept the idea that he felt jealousy in that moment and decided to kiss tifa anyways despite loving aerith. well that just makes him either an awful person or a very fickle one. I doubt that's what the devs were going for in that scene

Edited to hide Rebirth spoilers - Mod.

 

[Nal]

The cloud kisses her because he's jealous idea is like the worst take ever LOL. so he either

1. didn't really like aerith that much cause damn he moved on quick after getting jealous. or
2. he's actually a truly horrible person who is leading tifa on and using her after learning that he can't be with the one person he truly wants.

let's accept the idea that he felt jealousy in that moment and decided to kiss tifa anyways despite loving aerith. well that just makes him either an awful person or a very fickle one. I doubt that's what the devs were going for in that scene

like that whole take just makes Cloud the main character look like the worst possible person Why does this person even want Aerith to like that type of guy?

 

[andover]

Spoiler

I just can't believe that post quite literally missed the entire point of Cloud's character arc to say he was jealous before he then kisses Tifa. It’s like the whole rest of the game is being forgotten. The last thing cloud would be thinking of is, well that Zack guy who is missing is my rival against Aerith. Not the whole why don't I remember this guy everyone else does from the same memory I have. This take just butchers the characters, and they wrote a whole essay on it?

Then question why Cloud had to ask on a date with Tifa about whether she talked to Aerith to which Tifa says “Not Yet” which is a complete lie. From that lie, Cloud then believes it’s a “touchy subject” for Aerith. He trusts Tifa that she had not spoken to Aerith which again… is a lie. He then immediately assumes from that as well that Aerith must still have feelings for Zack. Cloud had to have asked Tifa at some point to talk to Aerith about Zack or Aerith’s feelings for Zack before the date because why is that the subject of conversation on a romantic high affection date before Tifa changes the subject? Tifa is believing she’s misreading their relationship, she feels like this because she’s insecure likely because of Cloud and Aerith’s relationship. Makes no sense if, as the player, you actively pursued Tifa. Cloud only ends up doing what he does at the end of the scene because he believes Aerith loves Zack and Tifa lied about having the conversation entirely for him to come to that conclusion.

Edited to hide Rebirth Spoilers - Mod.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Can someone confirm if it's true Aerith has a date in nearly every town and does Tifa (and Yuffie ???) also have many.

Edited to get rid of minor spoiler detail - Mod.

 

[r_monk]

Then question why Cloud had to ask on a date with Tifa about whether she talked to Aerith to which Tifa says “Not Yet” which is a complete lie. From that lie, Cloud then believes it’s a “touchy subject” for Aerith. He trusts Tifa that she had not spoken to Aerith which again… is a lie. He then immediately assumes from that as well that Aerith must still have feelings for Zack. Cloud had to have asked Tifa at some point to talk to Aerith about Zack or Aerith’s feelings for Zack before the date because why is that the subject of conversation on a romantic high affection date before Tifa changes the subject? Tifa is believing she’s misreading their relationship, she feels like this because she’s insecure likely because of Cloud and Aerith’s relationship. Makes no sense if, as the player, you actively pursued Tifa. Cloud only ends up doing what he does at the end of the scene because he believes Aerith loves Zack and Tifa lied about having the conversation entirely for him to come to that conclusion.

Keep in mind that Aerith and Tifa are very close friends at this point? We don't even know to what extent they've confided in each other with regards to the topic of Zack/Cloud mental instability and confusion. It is a touchy subject, but Cloud doesn't even know just how touchy. Maybe Tifa and Aerith prefer not to betray each other's confidence because they're still processing and unpacking the situation themselves, both together and individually, and are emotionally intelligent enough to know that divulging such information to Cloud right now is a very bad idea given his mental state? Good lord.

 

[andover]

The cloud kisses her because he's jealous idea is like the worst take ever LOL. so he either

1. didn't really like aerith that much cause damn he moved on quick after getting jealous. or
2. he's actually a truly horrible person who is leading tifa on and using her after learning that he can't be with the one person he truly wants.

let's accept the idea that he felt jealousy in that moment and decided to kiss tifa anyways despite loving aerith. well that just makes him either an awful person or a very fickle one. I doubt that's what the devs were going for in that scene

So if you have been slightly mislead to believe the girl you like still likes her ex while you’re on a date with another girl how would you react? There’s also proof that Cloud is jealous before. In the Ultimania Plus, Toriyama points out that Cloud feeling “mixed feelings” about Aerith going on a date with someone else at Evergreen Park may enhance the depth of the scene. We also know Zack and Aerith did go on a date there in CC. I’m sure you can put two and two together that the foundation for this jealousy was present in the Remake, at least.

 

[Rfcloud88]

Then question why Cloud had to ask on a date with Tifa about whether she talked to Aerith to which Tifa says “Not Yet” which is a complete lie. From that lie, Cloud then believes it’s a “touchy subject” for Aerith. He trusts Tifa that she had not spoken to Aerith which again… is a lie. He then immediately assumes from that as well that Aerith must still have feelings for Zack. Cloud had to have asked Tifa at some point to talk to Aerith about Zack or Aerith’s feelings for Zack before the date because why is that the subject of conversation on a romantic high affection date before Tifa changes the subject? Tifa is believing she’s misreading their relationship, she feels like this because she’s insecure likely because of Cloud and Aerith’s relationship. Makes no sense if, as the player, you actively pursued Tifa. Cloud only ends up doing what he does at the end of the scene because he believes Aerith loves Zack and Tifa lied about having the conversation entirely for him to come to that conclusion.

You make it sound as if cloud is a horrible person. As if he moved on to Tifa quick. You have horrible takes on things. He confused and not all there

 

[billy22]

She didn’t. Before he asks, She says it’s okay he isn’t like Zack because she wants to be with Cloud. When Cloud does ask, Aerith says “I think so? But not about anything important” which means whatever the conversation she had with Tifa about Zack was just that… not important.

Cloud's mental instability is absolutely important. Her side-stepping his question by pretending it's not important is where she is lying. She knows it's important, but is lying to protect him, same as Tifa.

This whole "lying" thing is a bad angle and I don't know where you plan on going with this. People lie to each other all the time for a variety of reasons. I've lied to my parents, my siblings, and my girlfriend before. And they've all lied to me. But we still love each other. These characters have good reasons for lying/hiding the truth, or at least believe they do, same as any person in real life.

It feels like you just brought it up to trout out a "yeah, Tifa might be the winning girl but she's a terrible person and they're a terrible couple because look at her lying to him" argument.

Also, this is a general comment directed towards everyone posting in this topic currently, but I'd recommend against posting "hearsay" spoilers that haven't been confirmed by reliable sources. "I heard this was true" just makes your argument look weak. And I've seen some compilation stuff dug up too, but there is a separate topic dedicated to that. This LTD topic is for the Remake trilogy only.

 

[r_monk]

So if you have been slightly mislead to believe the girl you like still likes her ex while you’re on a date with another girl how would you react? There’s also proof that Cloud is jealous before. In the Ultimania Plus, Toriyama points out that Cloud feeling “mixed feelings” about Aerith going on a date with someone else at Evergreen Park may enhance the depth of the scene. We also know Zack and Aerith did go on a date there in CC. I’m sure you can put two and two together that the foundation for this jealousy was present in the Remake, at least.

By the same token, Cloud has expressed jealousy several times towards any male attention given to Tifa, whether witnessed or even mentioned lol. If we're using your logic, then has whatever attention he's given to Aerith due to those instances of jealousy? If any of this is true, then Cloud is the pettiest, most immature dude alive who really has no business dating anyone lol.

 

[Nal]

Then question why Cloud had to ask on a date with Tifa about whether she talked to Aerith to which Tifa says “Not Yet” which is a complete lie. From that lie, Cloud then believes it’s a “touchy subject” for Aerith. He trusts Tifa that she had not spoken to Aerith which again… is a lie. He then immediately assumes from that as well that Aerith must still have feelings for Zack. Cloud had to have asked Tifa at some point to talk to Aerith about Zack or Aerith’s feelings for Zack before the date because why is that the subject of conversation on a romantic high affection date before Tifa changes the subject? Tifa is believing she’s misreading their relationship, she feels like this because she’s insecure likely because of Cloud and Aerith’s relationship. Makes no sense if, as the player, you actively pursued Tifa. Cloud only ends up doing what he does at the end of the scene because he believes Aerith loves Zack and Tifa lied about having the conversation entirely for him to come to that conclusion.

Cloud believes its a touchy subject

Spoiler

because of an earlier scene where Aerith straight up says she might still have feelings for Zack

. Tifa and Aerith are not rivals in remake the developers clearly said that by focusing on their friendship. On both Aerith and Tifas date he asks has the other person spoken to each other about Zack and they both say not yet. As them lying here is not a bad thing since Cloud should obviously know who Zack is, thats the point of the story dude. And the way you say that Cloud can only kiss Tifa because he believes Aerith loves Zack is, quite frankly, a disgusting mindset. What kind of character do you think Cloud is for him to then just start kissing the next girl if he thinks he can't get with another?

 

[loozzer]

I'm hearing from someone i know that

Spoiler

the friendzone line in the clerith dream date before her death isn't even the worst part of the date? cause i think that line can be avoided if you get aerith's GS date. they are talking about something that's not good for clerith that happens during the dream date before the friendzone line.

They are a really big cloti fan so take that with a grain of salt. I haven't seen it with my own eyes and it's nothing that i've heard of before. I don't think they would lie to me though, their take just might not be completely objective.

Hmmm I have an update about this

Spoiler

so basically on their last dream date together, npcs throughout the date will tell aerith that she and cloud are not meant to be together. the person I heard this from said that it was pretty harsh. one of the npcs says something along the lines of theres no spark between cloud and aerith.

Again I have not seen the actual video or dialogue for this but I know this person pretty well and don't think they would lie.

 

[andover]

Spoiler

Keep in mind that Aerith and Tifa are very close friends at this point? We don't even know to what extent they've confided in each other with regards to the topic of Zack/Cloud mental instability and confusion. It is a touchy subject, but Cloud doesn't even know just how touchy. Maybe Tifa and Aerith prefer not to betray each other's confidence because they're still processing and unpacking the situation themselves, both together and individually, and are emotionally intelligent enough to know that divulging such information to Cloud right now is a very bad idea given his mental state? Good lord.

I definitely agree here. They are friends and we don’t know exactly in how they confided in each other but just one thing, at this point Gongaga had already happened so they know more or less about Zack and Aerith’s relationship. From how the conversation is framed on Tifa’s date though and how Cloud starts the conversation after the Chocobo talk, Cloud might have asked Tifa to talk to Aerith about her feelings for Zack. Crossing fingers that isn’t true because if that is and Tifa just says Cloud and Zack knew each other then she did not even ask what Cloud wanted to know. That’s likely not true though since she denies the conversation happens. If Tifa believes it isn’t her place to talk about it she could have said that instead of denying it.

His mental state is also something to consider as well because Cloud and Tifa had already reconciled by the time the date takes place about the imposter stuff we can assume so her denying she spoke to Aerith entirely looks worse because they had a whole arc focused on Cloud distrusting her only for her to lie later during a very emotional moment. Yikes. Seems you are forgetting this is a love triangle and all’s fair in love and war.

Edited to include spoiler tags - Mod.

 

[loozzer]

Spoiler

So if you have been slightly mislead to believe the girl you like still likes her ex while you’re on a date with another girl how would you react? There’s also proof that Cloud is jealous before. In the Ultimania Plus, Toriyama points out that Cloud feeling “mixed feelings” about Aerith going on a date with someone else at Evergreen Park may enhance the depth of the scene. We also know Zack and Aerith did go on a date there in CC. I’m sure you can put two and two together that the foundation for this jealousy was present in the Remake, at least.

Ummm, well I sure as hell would not kiss the other girl if I had any integrity LOL

Edited to include spoiler tags - Mod.

 

[andover]

Spoiler

Cloud believes it’s a touchy subject

Spoiler

because of an earlier scene where Aerith straight up says she might still have feelings for Zack

. Tifa and Aerith are not rivals in remake the developers clearly said that by focusing on their friendship. On both Aerith and Tifas date he asks has the other person spoken to each other about Zack and they both say not yet. As them lying here is not a bad thing since Cloud should obviously know who Zack is, thats the point of the story dude. And the way you say that Cloud can only kiss Tifa because he believes Aerith loves Zack is, quite frankly, a disgusting mindset. What kind of character do you think Cloud is for him to then just start kissing the next girl if he thinks he can't get with another?

Aerith does not say “not yet” she specifically says “I think so? But not about anything important.” She is not denying the conversation happens, like Tifa does. You can see from Aerith’s response it appears that she did not give the conversation much thought after they had it since it sounds like it went over her head. Which means it was not important, why else would she say it wasn’t. This also happens AFTER Aerith says she wants to be with Cloud if you happened to watch the scene instead of just the date with Cloud and Tifa, by the way.

Edited to include spoiler tags - Mod

 

[andover]

Ummm, well I sure as hell would not kiss the other girl if I had any integrity LOL

I wouldn’t either because it would make Cloud look bad but he ALREADY looks bad bringing up another girl about her feelings for her ex to the girl he is on a romantic date with so the integrity was out the window already.

 

[null]

Hmmm I have an update about this

Spoiler

so basically on their last dream date together, npcs throughout the date will tell aerith that she and cloud are not meant to be together. the person I heard this from said that it was pretty harsh. one of the npcs says something along the lines of theres no spark between cloud and aerith.

Again I have not seen the actual video or dialogue for this but I know this person pretty well and don't think they would lie.

Obviously taking with a grain of salt for now, but… yikes. So far that sounds like the date from hell. Like, literally a form of damnation.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Hmmm I have an update about this

Spoiler

so basically on their last dream date together, npcs throughout the date will tell aerith that she and cloud are not meant to be together. the person I heard this from said that it was pretty harsh. one of the npcs says something along the lines of theres no spark between cloud and aerith.

Again I have not seen the actual video or dialogue for this but I know this person pretty well and don't think they would lie.

If true that sounds like a projection of Aerith's own insecurities, she created these dream NPCs right?

 

[loozzer]

I wouldn’t either because it would make Cloud look bad but he ALREADY looks bad bringing up another girl about her feelings for her ex to the girl he is on a romantic date with so the integrity was out the window already.

So maybe it's time to ask yourself if the devs really wrote the story that you think you're watching unfold or if you've misinterpreted a lot of things. Like do you really think they've written cloud to be a guy with zero integrity?

 

[r_monk]

Cloud believes its a touchy subject

Spoiler

because of an earlier scene where Aerith straight up says she might still have feelings for Zack

. Tifa and Aerith are not rivals in remake the developers clearly said that by focusing on their friendship. On both Aerith and Tifas date he asks has the other person spoken to each other about Zack and they both say not yet. As them lying here is not a bad thing since Cloud should obviously know who Zack is, thats the point of the story dude. And the way you say that Cloud can only kiss Tifa because he believes Aerith loves Zack is, quite frankly, a disgusting mindset. What kind of character do you think Cloud is for him to then just start kissing the next girl if he thinks he can't get with another?

Fuckboy Chad Strife. I guess that would line up with the horrible clothes they have him wearing in Costa Del Sol. Just give him some Axe body spray and call it a day.

 

[Nal]

I definitely agree here. They are friends and we don’t know exactly in how they confided in each other but just one thing, at this point Gongaga had already happened so they know more or less about Zack and Aerith’s relationship. From how the conversation is framed on Tifa’s date though and how Cloud starts the conversation after the Chocobo talk, Cloud might have asked Tifa to talk to Aerith about her feelings for Zack. Crossing fingers that isn’t true because if that is and Tifa just says Cloud and Zack knew each other then she did not even ask what Cloud wanted to know. That’s likely not true though since she denies the conversation happens. If Tifa believes it isn’t her place to talk about it she could have said that instead of denying it.

His mental state is also something to consider as well because Cloud and Tifa had already reconciled by the time the date takes place about the imposter stuff we can assume so her denying she spoke to Aerith entirely looks worse because they had a whole arc focused on Cloud distrusting her only for her to lie later during a very emotional moment. Yikes. Seems you are forgetting this is a love triangle and all’s fair in love and wa

I wouldn’t either because it would make Cloud look bad but he ALREADY looks bad bringing up another girl about her feelings for her ex to the girl he is on a romantic date with so the integrity was out the window alread

I wouldn’t either because it would make Cloud look bad but he ALREADY looks bad bringing up another girl about her feelings for her ex to the girl he is on a romantic date with so the integrity was out the window already.

A character talking about another character on a date is not a bad thing to do?

 

[r_monk]

I definitely agree here. They are friends and we don’t know exactly in how they confided in each other but just one thing, at this point Gongaga had already happened so they know more or less about Zack and Aerith’s relationship. From how the conversation is framed on Tifa’s date though and how Cloud starts the conversation after the Chocobo talk, Cloud might have asked Tifa to talk to Aerith about her feelings for Zack. Crossing fingers that isn’t true because if that is and Tifa just says Cloud and Zack knew each other then she did not even ask what Cloud wanted to know. That’s likely not true though since she denies the conversation happens. If Tifa believes it isn’t her place to talk about it she could have said that instead of denying it.

His mental state is also something to consider as well because Cloud and Tifa had already reconciled by the time the date takes place about the imposter stuff we can assume so her denying she spoke to Aerith entirely looks worse because they had a whole arc focused on Cloud distrusting her only for her to lie later during a very emotional moment. Yikes. Seems you are forgetting this is a love triangle and all’s fair in love and war.

w h e t.

i give up lol.

 

[Nal]

A character talking about another character on a date is not a bad thing to do?

The only way I can see you having this take is if you think Cloud and Aerith in this part of the story are officially together.

 

[Nal]

w h e t.

i give up lol.

Also that whole arc with cloud distrusting her maybe look at it the other way round. Unless you think Tifa is an imposter like Sephiroth claims

 

[r_monk]

Also that whole arc with cloud distrusting her maybe look at it the other way round. Unless you think Tifa is an imposter like Sephiroth claims

I also don't understand what that has to do with all being fair in love and war??

And yeah, Tifa is questioning her own memory, questioning who Cloud is... SIGH.