Man of Steel / Justice League / DC films

[Carlie]

Is a bit sad, excluding Wonder Woman this one was somewhere between bad and okish and at least enjoyable at times. Though at the same time a movie about the Justice League deserves so much better than what we got.

 

[Geostigma]

Yeah I actually finally got around to seeing it. After seeing threads on /r/movies repeatedly shit on it I was expecting a pretty bad time tbh. Especially looking out for the CGI lip since reddit acted like it was the worst thing ever, and in every scene.

I literally only noticed the lip in 1 scene and ended up looking it up. Apparently the lip thing was just in that scene that was reshot and not in any others. Wonder how many people actually knew that and weren't just parroting a meme

I think it's a pretty serviceable movie though. Definitely troubled by trying to do to much at once but on the grand scheme of things it's better than some of the worse Marvel movies , a la Thor 2, Iron Man 2 etc. And certainly better than some of the non-MCU Marvel movies. Like I don't get why this movie get shit on harder than X men Apocalypse for instance lol.

 

[Clement Rage]

Pretty much inevitable given how troubled the production was. Like Suicide Squad, compromising too late ended up with conflicting visions that don't fit together.

I think Ragnarok is a fairer comparison, though. BP is an outlier on everything.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Pretty much inevitable given how troubled the production was. Like Suicide Squad, compromising too late ended up with conflicting visions that don't fit together.

I think Ragnarok is a fairer comparison, though. BP is an outlier on everything.

Oh Ragnarok is definitely a more fair comparison. I think that Black Panther is interesting, because it also illustrates just how absurdly well it's doing.



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[X-SOLDIER]

I enjoyed this well enough. Some of it feels a little cut up, so I'm waiting to see what the longer version comes across like.

If I had any complaint to make, it's that the movie feels like it's attempting to establish itself as a universe at a breakneck pace, and all the characters are there, but not allowed to gradually develop the way that the MCU has. Honestly, I'd've preferred to see this as two films.

Spoiler

Batman Vs Superman with Lex's scheme would've worked brilliantly on its own. That would've done fine to set up Lex as a villain worth his weight (and while he doesn't feel quite like typical Lex Luthor, he does a good job with the role in how it's designed). The "Dawn of Justice" bit and the conflict against Doomsday felt like it could've been held off and developed more as a standalone film built upon Lex's frustration with the former conflict not working the way he wanted. The whole legal and ethical tension works really well, but it seems like they just caved to the fear that no one would care if they didn't 1-up their "Gods fighting Gods" combat from Man of Steel (even though the nightmare sequences worked just fine for that).

tl;dr I'm curious if the longer version will make it a better single film, or if I still would've preferred BvS & DoJ to be individual pieces.

Update – Two years later, I finally actually did this:

Sounds like my reaction to BVS. I was absolutely stunned by how well thought out the whole thing was when I rewatched the ultimate edition.

You should watch TLJ again, and I should finally get around to seeing Extended BvS.

Deal.

Excellent! Should we have a deadline and convene and discuss in the relevant threads after that period of time?

Your call. My schedule is pretty open.

Next weekend? TLJ'll be out in BluRay then, so I'll likely've had a chance to rewatch it at home, and it'll give me a chance to hunt down Extended BvS as well.

So I actually DID get to check it out this weekend, and yeah. My initial criticism that it felt like two films BvS & DoJ is largely gone. It flows MUCH better in the extended edition.

My minor gripes are still present.
• I wish that Batman used expanding foam rounds from his Batmobile/Plane to disable his opponents, so that it kept more in line with the idea that he doesn't kill, especially with guns. Same with the guy who's holding Martha Kent captive getting blown up.
• The Martha line is still a little awkward, but it doesn't seem to stick out as badly for some reason.
• I really still wish that Aquaman'd've shown up to get the spear from under the water. It seems like such a tease.
• I feel like the ending wants to do too much, and it missing the best moment to end the film on – which would've been on Bruce's speech about Mankind. It's literally the best. Seriously, just hard cut this clip at the 2 min mark, and everything else about the Justice League coming together'd made much better delivered as an aftercredit. It's the only thing that makes the film feel too bloated.

The small bit teasing Steppenwolf with Lex was pretty strong forshadowing, and makes the fact that the Justice League film is so lighthearted in tone even more awkward. I don't think I'll ever get over the fact that we didn't get things properly wrapped up by Zack Snyder in the Justice League we did get.



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[Clement Rage]

Glad you like it. I hope I can be as positive. (TLJ doesn't come out here for another week, so I may be delayed, sorry.)

Spoiler

If there's one edit I'd make it would be that 'Martha' makes Batman step back, and say something like "Talk." Then cut to something else, cut back, and have him throw away the spear after hearing the explanation.

Re: the henchpeople, on my first viewing I agreed, but I don't know how else they could sell a 'Batman gone dark' enough to actually try to kill Superman. The whole film is about him having gone down a dark path, but Batman is always dark. I don't exactly like it, but I don't think you're supposed to.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Glad you like it. I hope I can be as positive. (TLJ doesn't come out here for another week, so I may be delayed, sorry.)

Spoiler

If there's one edit I'd make it would be that 'Martha' makes Batman step back, and say something like "Talk." Then cut to something else, cut back, and have him throw away the spear after hearing the explanation.

Re: the henchpeople, on my first viewing I agreed, but I don't know how else they could sell a 'Batman gone dark' enough to actually try to kill Superman. The whole film is about him having gone down a dark path, but Batman is always dark. I don't exactly like it, but I don't think you're supposed to.

No worries on the delay.

I wholeheartedly agree that the way that "Martha" should be used would be to shock Bruce, and that's adequately set-up with the Flashback of it being his dad's last words and his rant about not believing in greater purpose of circumstance because of his parents' deaths just before he hears it, and then it should've used that to open up a dialogue, rather than focusing in on the word. I think that if there's any related fault, it's really that we don't get enough of Superman attempting communication at times when it seems like he should be that also ends up making that line need to be FAR more emphasized than it ought to be.

Also, I think that the things with Batman Branding people is enough to justify his belief in the ends justify the means when it comes to killing a super-powered alien like Superman. I felt that the banter between him and Alfred also helped to really sell that he's in a very dark place, while still holding to the code that really makes him Batman – ESPECIALLY because of one of the reasons that he's so adamant about things in the collateral damage caused by the Kryptonians. Again – It's enough to annoy me, but I think that that's also because this is the film that has established this universe's version of Batman, and that's a code that's pretty much universally central to his character.




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[Carlie]

Henry Cavill is done as Superman and let's be honest nothing was lost

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Is he actually though? All of the articles about it I've seen have seemed decidedly rumor mill-y and not the least bit definitive. io9's has at least been clearly and periodically updated: https://io9.gizmodo.com/report-henry-cavills-superman-is-going-into-retirement-1828994927

Also, I think he's done quite a solid job as Superman tbqh. The DCCU films overall have been all over the place in terms of tone and quality, but I wouldn't ever cite Henry Cavill's Superman as being a negative.




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[Carlie]

He most certainly wasn't a negative obviously that lies with the clusterfuck at Warner Bros but he wasn't a positive either, he was just there. Just like Brandon Routh he did nothing interesting with the character. The best Warner Bros can do is restart with Superman after their panic move of trying to start a movie universe out of Man of Steel.

 

[Clement Rage]

My habit is to believe nothing until an official announcement, but sad if true.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1039962440396681223

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Apparently the adaptation of "Crisis on Infinite Earths" that the WB is doing is going to be even bigger than previously thought, with the current word being that everyone from Tom Welling (Superman from "Smallville") to Brandon Routh (Superman from "Superman Returns") to Lynda Carter (classic TV Wonder Woman) reprising their roles -- and even the current DC films-verse ("Man of Steel"-verse? "Dawn of Justice"-verse?) is getting included.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Okay, I don't even watch the Arrowverse shows, but the upcoming "Crisis" adaptation really is shaping up to be the best thing ever:

Kevin Conroy to join the event, playing Batman in live action for the first time

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Yup. As someone who's only loosely followed it, I was gonna try and catch it for the Brandon Routh Superman, but I NEED to see Kevin Conroy as live action Batman.



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[Lulcielid]

So Zack released this image. A director's cut with a staggering 3 hs 34 minutes runtime.

 

[Clement Rage]

I'm interested, doubt WB plays ball, though.

 

[Carlie]

It would cost too much money and be too much trouble. Special effects have to be paid for, actors have to be coordinated to be brought in when they're all free which is not easy for re shoots and paid. There's very little upside for WB here and also no one should remotely go through that much trouble for a Zack Snyder product.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

... also no one should remotely go through that much trouble for a Zack Snyder product.

Depends on which Zack Snyder one is getting. "Man of Steel" Zack Snyder -- alright, sure; "Watchmen" Zack Snyder: hell no.

As for effects costs and whatever, I'm not sure all that is needed anyway. The footage exists and that's probably all that's needed to convey what Snyder was going for.

 

[Carlie]

Man of Steel was mostly boring as fuck. Justice League was broken on deeper levels even before it was made. For the people desperately pushing for the Snyder Cut to be released there's no outcome here where the movie just comes together.

Considering how CGI dependent the movie was I'm not sure a probable early pre-viz footage is going to be particularly watchable.

 

[Clement Rage]

Some people do like his work, and it's not like it hurts anyone to release it even if you don't.

 

[Carlie]

Except that's not what I'm saying, this isn't like the Deadpool test footage that was just sitting around and could be released online. If it were as simple as that then sure release it, some people will like and some like me don't give two fucks about it. But for the money and effort that this Snyder Cut needs there's little reason for WB to do it.

 

[Clement Rage]

Depends how far along it was, it seems to have been pretty late in post production when the switchover happened. I'm curious to see his vision if nothing else.

 

[Lulcielid]

 

[Lulcielid]