Mythtaken: “It’s Always Night in Midgar!”

[Tetsujin]

I put up a new article, debunking the still somewhat widespread belief of Midgar being stuck in an eternal night of pollution.

http://thelifestream.net/lifestream...s/33190/mythtaken-its-always-night-in-midgar/

 

[Shademp]

Well done! That artist's impression really ties the article together.

 

[Ite]

Well argued. However... the bombing missions take place in the middle of the day. The clock during the opening FMV says 12:10.

Discontinuities like that are so numerous, the headcanon is how I can play the game and still believe that what I am looking at is how it looks. The other option is to tell myself that what I am looking at isn't actually how it looks, which destroys my immersion.

Perhaps the city isn't always blanketed in smog to the point of blackness, but the days are dark in the OG, that is as canon as anything.

My headcanon stretches the smog over all the surrounding region, matching where the terrain becomes a wasteland.

 

[Tetsujin]

Well argued. However... the bombing missions take place in the middle of the day. The clock during the opening FMV says 12:10.

It's definitely night. The PA on the train specifically says 12:23 AM and one of the passengers comments that he 'hates the last train'. I remember other NPCs commenting on how the bombings took place at night, as well.

Also, the clock in the opening is just a 12-hour clock that doesn't even indicate AM or PM?

 

[Ite]

Edit: the quote I was looking for is quoted a few posts down with proper context.

So the first bombing mission, meeting Aeris, missing a train, fighting, and riding down into the slums takes 13 minutes?

 

[Tetsujin]

Discontinuities like that are so numerous, the headcanon is how I can play the game and still believe that what I am looking at is how it looks. The other option is to tell myself that what I am looking at isn't actually how it looks, which destroys my immersion.

...but your headcanon is doing exactly that?

You're looking at this:

and tell yourself "there's no stars and clear skies, only pollution as far as the eye can see."

I'm not following you here?

 

[Ite]

As I said, well argued.

(My TV wasn't good enough to show those stars! lolol)

 

[X-SOLDIER]

When walking towards and away from Midgar on the world map, there is a shift in the light/colour of the sky though:

It goes from a hazy greenish grey to a much more clear blue. I'm pretty sure that this is some extra reenforcement for the "Midgar is a dark and hazy area" perception in the game that isn't just night portrayal or headcanon.




X

 

[Shademp]

It's definitely night. The PA on the train specifically says 12:23 AM and one of the passengers comments that he 'hates the last train'. I remember other NPCs commenting on how the bombings took place at night, as well.

Agreed that it is night, though I should mention the NPC line that does get some people confused.

The girl NPC with blue clothes in the Sector 7 Slums:

“Ya see, I keep on top of these things,
an' if ya ask me…”
“if you knock out Midgar's power,
then all of its computers and signals are
going to be knocked out, too.”
“Financially there must've been about
a billion gil worth of damage.”
“An' that ain't all!!
A lotta innocent people got killed, too!”
“If the explosion had been in the middle
of the night, that woulda been one thing.
At least the people coulda gone in their sleep.”

Either just louzy NPC writing or a bad translation. Here is the Japanese line if anybody with the knowledge want to cross-check:

「事情通の私にいわせればね」
「ミッドガルの電力がマヒしちゃったら
　コンピューターとか信号とか
　いろいろ止まっちゃうじゃない」
「経ざい的損失は、ん～～
　１０億ギルはくだらないし」
「それに！！
　たくさんの罪なき人々が死んだと思うのよ」
「爆破が真夜中だったから、まだいいわ。
　眠ってた人はそのまま目が覚めないだけね」

I know google translate is not to be trusted, but to me it indicates that the localization is erroneous here.


Simultaneously, the guy with the rattail indicates that it is indeed night.

“Oh &$#&@!!
What the hell's wrong tonight!!”
“I thought that long blackout
was strange.”
“They say a Mako Reactor was
destroyed above.”
“I was jes sittin' here drinkin',
watchin' the news by myself.”

 

[Tetsujin]

When walking towards and away from Midgar on the world map, there is a shift in the light/colour of the sky though:

It goes from a hazy greenish grey to a much more clear blue. I'm pretty sure that this is some extra reenforcement for the "Midgar is a dark and hazy area" perception in the game that isn't just night portrayal or headcanon.

Doesn't look too different from how the sky shifts when you approach the Northern Crater though.

 

[Ite]

PS-era light changes. Treno and Deling do the same thing.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

When walking towards and away from Midgar on the world map, there is a shift in the light/colour of the sky though:

It goes from a hazy greenish grey to a much more clear blue. I'm pretty sure that this is some extra reenforcement for the "Midgar is a dark and hazy area" perception in the game that isn't just night portrayal or headcanon.

Doesn't look too different from how the sky shifts when you approach the Northern Crater though.

Well, the Northern Crater is a massive planetary scar though, in addition to being the final dungeon, so having an ominous tone there makes sense. I'm just saying that approaching Midgar does have a negative shift in the ambient lighting, so the idea didn't JUST come from having a lot of night shots of Midgar.



X

 

[Tetsujin]

When walking towards and away from Midgar on the world map, there is a shift in the light/colour of the sky though:

It goes from a hazy greenish grey to a much more clear blue. I'm pretty sure that this is some extra reenforcement for the "Midgar is a dark and hazy area" perception in the game that isn't just night portrayal or headcanon.

Doesn't look too different from how the sky shifts when you approach the Northern Crater though.

Well, the Northern Crater is a massive planetary scar though, in addition to being the final dungeon, so having an ominous tone there makes sense. I'm just saying that approaching Midgar does have a negative shift in the ambient lighting, so the idea didn't JUST come from having a lot of night shots of Midgar.

Well, I kind of did put the shift in lighting under the category of 'night shot' to be honest.

 

[Tennyo]

I always wondered why people assumed it was always night in Midgar. I assumed the darkness was simply because of technological constraints. This isn't GTA where the sun rises and sets. Every area has to remain at one specific time of day in order to maintain the tone of the story events that happen there.

But yeah, I could never suspend belief enough to buy that pollution made it pitch black in Midgar and yet somehow people were still able to survive there.

 

[Ite]

...it's a fantasy world, and Midgar is a grim prediction of our own society.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32352722

Since there is no Plate, that probably more closely resembles the air in the slums.

The NPC line was the one I was looking for. I thought Cait Sith said it for some reason. That NPC line is the primary source for the myth, at least in my perception.

You're right though, Tets. The trailer did put the matter to rest canonically. That was so clearly daytime.

 

[Tetsujin]

Agreed that it is night, though I should mention the NPC line that does get some people confused.

The girl NPC with blue clothes in the Sector 7 Slums:


Either just louzy NPC writing or a bad translation. Here is the Japanese line if anybody with the knowledge want to cross-check:

I know google translate is not to be trusted, but to me it indicates that the localization is erroneous here.

Ahhh, I actually remember this line and being confused myself way back then. If we can get an accurate translation of the Japanese it would be worth to add to the article.

 

[Starling]

Nothing grows in Midgar and yet they survive anyway. Clearly they import whatever they need so they could probably manage without sunlight just fine. It's like those people who live so close to one of the poles they get several months of darkness or near-darkness.

 

[Tetsujin]

Nothing grows in Midgar and yet they survive anyway. Clearly they import whatever they need

 

[Shademp]

ELECTROLYTES

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Well, I kind of did put the shift in lighting under the category of 'night shot' to be honest.

…But it is clearly NOT a night shot, so it doesn't belong there. There isn't a time-of-day change that's supposed to be taking place every time you walk into the desolated lands around Midgar. It's more representative of the fact that the land itself is hazy and wrecked as compared to the outside world.

It isn't a perma-sky-obscuring layers, but it is a haze from the mako reactors that tints things in a way that they aren't the same as the natural world.



X

 

[Starling]

I think they're going to go with near-perpetually varying degrees of overcast.

 

[Jason Tandro]

Permanent pollution absolutely. You don't even need lighting to see that, it's the giant mako-producing city in the middle of a wasteland that we're told used to be plains and grasslands when the towns were separate.

But pollution doesn't work like that. Even in the smoggiest cities in the world, you're not gonna reach perma-night levels of light blocking, at least not the absolute pitch black that people seem to think exists.

The argument isn't whether or not Midgar has sunny days chasin' the clouds away. It's whether or not it's permanently night-time levels of light because of it. And with respect to Mr. Ite and others, that's a hearty "no".

It all boils down to the good old days of PSOne where you basically had one light setting per locale. Mr. Ite mentioned Treno and Deling City, but those weren't caused by pollution. We were to assume that those places just always were in eternal midnight? It's not even like Burmecia having constant rain either, as that's a weather effect and, well as anybody who lives in Seattle can tell you that does happen lol.

 

[Tetsujin]

…But it is clearly NOT a night shot, so it doesn't belong there.

Sorry, gonna have to disagree there. That's what it looks like to me at least.

 

[Starling]

As unrealistic as it may be, perma-night in Midgar would be cool to see. Since this is a videogame, that's a good enough reason for it to be possible.

The fact that Kindom Hearts has a town in perpetual twilight and a town in perpetual night, it's not like SE wouldn't do stuff like that just because.

 

[Ite]

It will be very strange to walk around Midgar in the daytime. This is going to be a very different game. Hungh! I'm pumped.