New things and plot points I want to see (spoilers)

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
#1
1. I want to see that there are Cloud clones running around by the time they get to North Crater, so that Cloud has a real reason to start doubting his identity, rather than based on Sephiroth's say so and no physical evidence.

2. Aerith should dissolve into lifestream swirls while being laid to rest in the lake, rather than just sinking to the bottom of lake like a stone.

3. Party banter needs to be a thing. There's a lot of surprising lack of conversations between characters that have spent months together.

4. Cait Sith should have confirmed independent AI, and face an existential crisis, both as a sacrifice, and then 2.0 having to process the fact that it's different from 1.0.

5. Instead of just killing Scarlet and Heidagar off together, Barret needs a confrontation with Scarlet, as she's the one that seems to have destroyed his arm. He doesn't have to kill her, but he needs that moment of closure for himself and on behalf of Dyne

6. At least one mission each to learn about Biggs, Wedge, and Jesse

7. Maiden Who Walks the Planet needs to be a Post Game DLC.

8. Final Fantasy VII Gaiden: A parody game in Gold Saucer where you can play a series of ATB battles with the current members of your party and your equipment, with a very basic story.

9. I want Jenova to have a manifestation in Cloud's mindscape, and possibly be a boss battle for Tifa to fight against solo.

10. G-bike should be a fast-travel option between all major cities.
 
#2
Few observations :

1. Cloud clones? Are there any Cloud clones in the game?
As far as I know, Cloud was never Cloned. The Reunion theory led to several people being injected with Sephiroth cells, hence the term "Sephiroth Clones" or "Sephiroth copies", but I'm not aware of any Cloud clones.

Also, I'd say Cloud has a real reason to doubt his identity apart from Sephiroth saying so - namely the fact that he goes through the majority of the game with a gaping hole in his memories, and the various inconsistencies in his story. I don't think Sephiroth saying what he did is supposed to be viewed as "the reason" Cloud comes to doubt his identity - rather it serves as a trigger to bring doubts he had all along to the surface.
These doubts are given expressions throughout the game whenever the real Cloud in his subconsciousness is talking to him.
It's also reasonable that Sephiroth would have that impact since, as Cloud knows, Sephiroth was there. If anyone other than him ought to know the whole truth, it's Sephiroth.

2. Is this a thing? Other people dying in FFVII don't seem to do this. I though life energy in the context of the game was a kind allegory for soul, and that ascending into the life-stream doesn't literally mean that you body is physically integrated with it - just that your life-energy is.
There seems to be an element of mind-body duality to FFVIIs story - after all, Sephiroth travels the life-stream to North Crater, gaining knowledge and power of the ancients, yet his body does not dissolve, which implies that connection to life-stream is not body dependent.

Even more interesting is that, in the original, we see Sephiroth, in the lifestream, being dissolved from it after Cloud beats him.

9. Why would Jenova manifest itself in Cloud's mind-scape rather than say Sephiroth?
I think FFVII makes it pretty clear that either A.) Jenova isn't actually sentient in a conventional sense, or that B.) at least, Jenova as an actual actor out in the world as seen post Sephiroth's ascension to the North Crater, is merely a proxy for his will in either case, meaning that for Jenova to manifest in Cloud's mind at that point, would be indistinguishable from Sephiroth doing so.
Why would you want Tifa to fight it though? What's her connection to Jenova?

The rest seems pretty reasonable.
I'm big on party banter (although I think the original had plenty, you can still add more), and I'd certainly want an expansion on bike activities. The bike is way too cool to just drop after the Midgar escape.
Knowing that the brunt of the development is being done by Cyberconnect2, who did the G-Bike mobile game (which was pretty awesome imo), it doesn't seem at all unlikely we'll get more bike action.

Personally, these are some of the things I want the most out of the remake :

1. Given how unlikely it is that the game will feature a world-map, I hope at very least that they make some sort of sky-level tied to the various zones which you can traverse with the air-ship, simply because I'd be really really really sad to see an FFVII remake without some controllable Highwind action.

2. I hope, with whatever rewrites they do, they go in the direction of simplicity rather than convolution. If they wish to incorporate ideas and concepts from the compilation etc. rather than construct elaborate rationals that make it somehow plausible or possible, just run to the cutting-room floor and remove the things that make it hard to implement in the first place.
(just as an example - story-beats like Cloud remembering stuff from Zack's perspective he wasn't present for explained by Jenova shared consciousness stuff, being dropped in favor of simply slightly altering the scene so Cloud only remembers what he was actual there for. I'm not saying they actually change that, just that as a principle that's how I hope they handle story)

3. Keep the action and narrative grounded with a well adjusted progression-curve. Don't start introducing the gravity breaking Dissidia crap, random angel wings, and poem recitals until very late game, if at all.

4. Online multi-player Chocobo racing (and if I can be greedy, Snowboarding). Capturing, training, breeding, and racing chocobos against other players could be almost like its own entire thing, and if well done it would give the game some real lasting value.

5. I don't care how they do it, but design the game in a way that allows for music to flow and accompany the scenes similarly to the original game - that is to say, have the battle theme play in battles, have the fanfare play when you've cleared an area etc.
I know it's difficult because seamless action games and rpgs with frequent screen transitions are just so different to direct for in terms of sound-design, but if I'm not getting the classical battle theme cross-fading in or something once I bump into an enemy, or I am not seeing Cloud doing his victory routine to the FFVII version of the Fanfare with some decent frequency, it will seriously damage my ability get drawn into the game I feel.

I feel as if they hit most of those points, for me personally, even with rewrites and a new style, and a new battle-system, the game will probably be a hit for me.
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
#3
Few observations :

1. Cloud clones? Are there any Cloud clones in the game?
As far as I know, Cloud was never Cloned. The Reunion theory led to several people being injected with Sephiroth cells, hence the term "Sephiroth Clones" or "Sephiroth copies", but I'm not aware of any Cloud clones.

Also, I'd say Cloud has a real reason to doubt his identity apart from Sephiroth saying so - namely the fact that he goes through the majority of the game with a gaping hole in his memories, and the various inconsistencies in his story. I don't think Sephiroth saying what he did is supposed to be viewed as "the reason" Cloud comes to doubt his identity - rather it serves as a trigger to bring doubts he had all along to the surface.
These doubts are given expressions throughout the game whenever the real Cloud in his subconsciousness is talking to him.
It's also reasonable that Sephiroth would have that impact since, as Cloud knows, Sephiroth was there. If anyone other than him ought to know the whole truth, it's Sephiroth.

2. Is this a thing? Other people dying in FFVII don't seem to do this. I though life energy in the context of the game was a kind allegory for soul, and that ascending into the life-stream doesn't literally mean that you body is physically integrated with it - just that your life-energy is.
There seems to be an element of mind-body duality to FFVIIs story - after all, Sephiroth travels the life-stream to North Crater, gaining knowledge and power of the ancients, yet his body does not dissolve, which implies that connection to life-stream is not body dependent.

Even more interesting is that, in the original, we see Sephiroth, in the lifestream, being dissolved from it after Cloud beats him.

9. Why would Jenova manifest itself in Cloud's mind-scape rather than say Sephiroth?
I think FFVII makes it pretty clear that either A.) Jenova isn't actually sentient in a conventional sense, or that B.) at least, Jenova as an actual actor out in the world as seen post Sephiroth's ascension to the North Crater, is merely a proxy for his will in either case, meaning that for Jenova to manifest in Cloud's mind at that point, would be indistinguishable from Sephiroth doing so.
Why would you want Tifa to fight it though? What's her connection to Jenova?

The rest seems pretty reasonable.
I'm big on party banter (although I think the original had plenty, you can still add more), and I'd certainly want an expansion on bike activities. The bike is way too cool to just drop after the Midgar escape.
Knowing that the brunt of the development is being done by Cyberconnect2, who did the G-Bike mobile game (which was pretty awesome imo), it doesn't seem at all unlikely we'll get more bike action.

Personally, these are some of the things I want the most out of the remake :

1. Given how unlikely it is that the game will feature a world-map, I hope at very least that they make some sort of sky-level tied to the various zones which you can traverse with the air-ship, simply because I'd be really really really sad to see an FFVII remake without some controllable Highwind action.

2. I hope, with whatever rewrites they do, they go in the direction of simplicity rather than convolution. If they wish to incorporate ideas and concepts from the compilation etc. rather than construct elaborate rationals that make it somehow plausible or possible, just run to the cutting-room floor and remove the things that make it hard to implement in the first place.
(just as an example - story-beats like Cloud remembering stuff from Zack's perspective he wasn't present for explained by Jenova shared consciousness stuff, being dropped in favor of simply slightly altering the scene so Cloud only remembers what he was actual there for. I'm not saying they actually change that, just that as a principle that's how I hope they handle story)

3. Keep the action and narrative grounded with a well adjusted progression-curve. Don't start introducing the gravity breaking Dissidia crap, random angel wings, and poem recitals until very late game, if at all.

4. Online multi-player Chocobo racing (and if I can be greedy, Snowboarding). Capturing, training, breeding, and racing chocobos against other players could be almost like its own entire thing, and if well done it would give the game some real lasting value.

5. I don't care how they do it, but design the game in a way that allows for music to flow and accompany the scenes similarly to the original game - that is to say, have the battle theme play in battles, have the fanfare play when you've cleared an area etc.
I know it's difficult because seamless action games and rpgs with frequent screen transitions are just so different to direct for in terms of sound-design, but if I'm not getting the classical battle theme cross-fading in or something once I bump into an enemy, or I am not seeing Cloud doing his victory routine to the FFVII version of the Fanfare with some decent frequency, it will seriously damage my ability get drawn into the game I feel.

I feel as if they hit most of those points, for me personally, even with rewrites and a new style, and a new battle-system, the game will probably be a hit for me.
1. Crisis Core opened a new interpretation of "Clones" that I rather like. Of course Cloud wouldn't be as privy to the knowledge as Zack about what copies are, and how there still needs to be a 'prime', ie, anyone that looks like Cloud would still need to have part of Cloud in him. But lets say that we got the hood off one of those shambling Sephiroth clones running about, and Hojos experiments produced someone that half looked like Cloud, but with silver hair? That would freak Cloud the hell out, and make him wonder if he's just another one of these rejected attempts to create a new Sephiroth with the elements of Cloud that would make for a superior copy, as is implied was Hojo's goal?

2. I just very much like the imagery, and it seems in line with what Square would do. It started with X, and then reappeared with Lightning Returns. It feels more appropriate, and elegant than just having her sink like a stone.

3. I feel like it would add a little more strength to both her and Sephiroth's character. Even when trying to tidy it up a little with Crisis Core, the jump from "Hrmm, maybe I'm different" to "I'm either a monster or a messiah, so I choose to be a messiah" is just too abrupt and easy. But having the manifestation of JENOVA eating away at Sephiroth's mind, that has appeal. It gives her agency as more than a McGuffin. It would also explain her at a catalyst to the mind control Sephiroth has over Cloud, poking away at his psyche. Once Cloud is no longer needed for the Reunion and Black Materia is in Cloud's Posession, it would be interesting if JENOVA's essence then turned to the task of keeping Cloud sedated, as the only one with the true potential to stop Sephiroth completing JENOVA's desired goals.

And of course, in this manifestation, I see JENOVA as a "False Mother" coiled around the various iterations of Cloud, and trying to keep Tifa, the true person that cares about Cloud, from saving him.
 

Flare

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Flare
#4
1. I want to see that there are Cloud clones running around by the time they get to North Crater, so that Cloud has a real reason to start doubting his identity, rather than based on Sephiroth's say so and no physical evidence.

3. Party banter needs to be a thing. There's a lot of surprising lack of conversations between characters that have spent months together.

4. Cait Sith should have confirmed independent AI, and face an existential crisis, both as a sacrifice, and then 2.0 having to process the fact that it's different from 1.0.

6. At least one mission each to learn about Biggs, Wedge, and Jesse

8. Final Fantasy VII Gaiden: A parody game in Gold Saucer where you can play a series of ATB battles with the current members of your party and your equipment, with a very basic story.

9. I want Jenova to have a manifestation in Cloud's mindscape, and possibly be a boss battle for Tifa to fight against solo.

10. G-bike should be a fast-travel option between all major cities.
I like all these ideas that I quoted here :D Especially the more party banter, more Avalanche crew association, and Cait Sith stuff.

Chip said:
5. Instead of just killing Scarlet and Heidagar off together, Barret needs a confrontation with Scarlet, as she's the one that seems to have destroyed his arm. He doesn't have to kill her, but he needs that moment of closure for himself and on behalf of Dyne
This one, I actually think I prefer that Scarlet and Barret don't have some confrontation. Because that sort of thing happens a lot already in games/movies/whatnot, where opposing characters with history together have some final confrontation and end one or the other.

I dunno, it hardly ever happens in real life. Seems more... idk, poignant, that Barret never gets to have that confrontation. Sort of like how Aerith dies without any last words, and so suddenly in the game. That stuff just... happens. You don't always get to say goodbye, you don't always get your revenge, or that form of closure.

Sometimes you have to find other ways to move on in life. And life might seem like an asshole at times, like it didn't grant you these things. Life just never goes the way you think it will.

tl;dr I find it more realistic/interesting if Barret never has a confrontation with Scarlet :monster:
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
#5
1. I want to see that there are Cloud clones running around by the time they get to North Crater, so that Cloud has a real reason to start doubting his identity, rather than based on Sephiroth's say so and no physical evidence.

3. Party banter needs to be a thing. There's a lot of surprising lack of conversations between characters that have spent months together.

4. Cait Sith should have confirmed independent AI, and face an existential crisis, both as a sacrifice, and then 2.0 having to process the fact that it's different from 1.0.

6. At least one mission each to learn about Biggs, Wedge, and Jesse

8. Final Fantasy VII Gaiden: A parody game in Gold Saucer where you can play a series of ATB battles with the current members of your party and your equipment, with a very basic story.

9. I want Jenova to have a manifestation in Cloud's mindscape, and possibly be a boss battle for Tifa to fight against solo.

10. G-bike should be a fast-travel option between all major cities.
I like all these ideas that I quoted here :D Especially the more party banter, more Avalanche crew association, and Cait Sith stuff.

Chip said:
5. Instead of just killing Scarlet and Heidagar off together, Barret needs a confrontation with Scarlet, as she's the one that seems to have destroyed his arm. He doesn't have to kill her, but he needs that moment of closure for himself and on behalf of Dyne
This one, I actually think I prefer that Scarlet and Barret don't have some confrontation. Because that sort of thing happens a lot already in games/movies/whatnot, where opposing characters with history together have some final confrontation and end one or the other.

I dunno, it hardly ever happens in real life. Seems more... idk, poignant, that Barret never gets to have that confrontation. Sort of like how Aerith dies without any last words, and so suddenly in the game. That stuff just... happens. You don't always get to say goodbye, you don't always get your revenge, or that form of closure.

Sometimes you have to find other ways to move on in life. And life might seem like an asshole at times, like it didn't grant you these things. Life just never goes the way you think it will.

tl;dr I find it more realistic/interesting if Barret never has a confrontation with Scarlet :monster:
To me, it makes sense because it would be the ultimate resolution for Barret to choose peace over violence. Even though he doesn't kill Dyne, he's not given the option to show Dyne Mercy, since he elects suicide. Otherwise, everything Barret handles, he handles with violence. But being given the option for once to choose peace feels like a resolution where he can truly be the father he's always afraid he couldn't be, with hands too stained with blood.

Its sappy, I know, but I'm a romantic that way. I want him to face Scarlet down, and then turn his back on her.
 

Unit-01

Waiting on Evangelion 3.0+1.0
AKA
Sicarius VI, Pink Guy, Sic, Anthony
#6
Agree with all of those, have a few comments.

2. Yes, totally... it will clear up the confusion/theory that Cloud killed Aerith. Of course all of the people here at TLS and most FF7 fans understand that Aerith sinking like a stone is just an oversight... also if you even bother to pay close attention to the CGI used in Aerith's death, you'll see a lot of mistakes and horrible inconsistencies. So it doesn't surprise me that no one asked what the physics of a dead human body was when put in water.

@Hian - Like you said, only after Sephiroth is beaten by Cloud does he dissolve into the lifestream, and this is the only occurrence of being dissolved in the original. The dissolving to the recently killed was a compilation thing. But considering Nomura's comments about how the Remake takes the Compilation out of context they might this is one thing that is going to change again. I'd love to see where they go with it. It's a very big part of Crisis Core, Zack countless times watches people dissolve into the lifestream, but it fucks with death portrayed in the original game.

3. If FFXV is anything to go by, it's going to be great.

6. Yes, 100% totally agree. I think some article that interviewed Nomura said those characters would get a lot more background. It also just may have been some website speculating, but quite frankly I can't imagine them not expanding on the trio.

7. Episode of Aerith DLC - But Srsly I would like if this happened. IIRC this story of Aerith is the "non-canon" one and is retconned by On a Way to Smile... However this one was a much longer and deeper story of Aerith being in the Lifestream, meeting President Shinra, Zack, Sephiroth, and others.

God I can't wait till we start seeing past the bombing mission and see Tifa and Aerith. Praying we get something at E3. Nomura of all people at Square wanted to show footage and they didn't let him.

9. I would like to see this, that would be pretty cool.

10. Fast travel would be great, but I hope everything like the buggy, downed Bronco, and Highwind are still usable. It's going to be interesting how they implement travel once the party gets out of Midgar.

_____________________
A MAJOR THING

I hope to god they fix the localization of the game with this Remake. By this I mean we understand that the person we are chasing is Jenova in the first parts of the game, not Sephiroth. The localization is something I can't see them keeping the same, it screws with the western perception of the story.

edit - Fixed the fact I referred to the Tiny Bronco as the Highwind, I must've been a bit tired when I made this post.
 
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#7
Not to repeat what other people have said, but why would there be Cloud Clones? They're all Sephiroth clones, not Cloud Clones, and I don't see what CC changed about that. Genesis and Angeal have their own unique traits that made them copy-able. Cloud is a failed test subject, he's not important enough to copy.

I don't think Aeris sinking is an oversight so much as it ruining the scene if Cloud has to go find some rocks to weigh her down.

FF7 and dissolving seems to happen depending on whether leaving a body is more dramatically appropriate, but if you're going for consistency, maybe it's a side effect of Mako infusion that you dissolve on death? Aerith dissolving would kind of defeat the point of giving her a burial in the first place.

I don't think the exact JENOVA-Sepiroth relationship is clear at all, and I'm fine with that.
 
AKA
Fancy
#8
I'd like to see Tifa's character/bg story built up more so that her existence isn't quite so centered around Cloud's own; namely, getting some clue/background information as to what happened to her between The Nibelheim Incident and seeing Cloud again in Midgar. I'd love to get a peak at her transition from Nibelheim darling to hardened resident of the Slums.
 
#9
Just let me fight that damn house with my bareass fists.

It's the only way I work out my frustration at being a shiftless millennial with no prospects of property ownership in the near future.
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
#10
Not to repeat what other people have said, but why would there be Cloud Clones? They're all Sephiroth clones, not Cloud Clones, and I don't see what CC changed about that. Genesis and Angeal have their own unique traits that made them copy-able. Cloud is a failed test subject, he's not important enough to copy.

I don't think Aeris sinking is an oversight so much as it ruining the scene if Cloud has to go find some rocks to weigh her down.

FF7 and dissolving seems to happen depending on whether leaving a body is more dramatically appropriate, but if you're going for consistency, maybe it's a side effect of Mako infusion that you dissolve on death? Aerith dissolving would kind of defeat the point of giving her a burial in the first place.

I don't think the exact JENOVA-Sepiroth relationship is clear at all, and I'm fine with that.
Because I like the idea of such a reveal. We never see what most of the cloaked "Shambler's" look like.

The point is, Hojo kept Cloud and Zack because he felt there was something about them that made them superior to Sephiroth. So if he were to make a new one, he would need to make sure the next one had those superior qualities. So it's not unbelievable that in the remake, there might be Cloud/Sephiroth hybrids running around under those hoods.

It would be such an awesome mindfuck for Cloud.
 

Tashasaurous

Tash for Short
AKA
Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
#11
1. I want to see that there are Cloud clones running around by the time they get to North Crater, so that Cloud has a real reason to start doubting his identity, rather than based on Sephiroth's say so and no physical evidence.
? Well, knowing Nomura, that might happen.

2. Aerith should dissolve into lifestream swirls while being laid to rest in the lake, rather than just sinking to the bottom of lake like a stone.
I agree. Everyone who dies like that all pretty much dissolve into the Lifestream. Zack was the good example. On the other hand, though, you don't see Angeal dissolve in Crisis Core.

3. Party banter needs to be a thing. There's a lot of surprising lack of conversations between characters that have spent months together.
I'd like the companion character to be switched as well as the main character switched during the gameplay with all of the main protagonists and not just having three by choice like in the Original game. And I'm pretty sure there'll be a conversation thing happening like in both the FFXIII Trilogy and FFXV(and it's special episodes).

Instead of just killing Scarlet and Heidagar off together, Barret needs a confrontation with Scarlet, as she's the one that seems to have destroyed his arm. He doesn't have to kill her, but he needs that moment of closure for himself and on behalf of Dyne
Now that's an interesting idea to see. Let's not forget that Scarlet's the main reason that both Barret and Dyne lost their wifes and the entire village in the first place.

6. At least one mission each to learn about Biggs, Wedge, and Jesse
That's probably one of the new things they'll add into the remake anyway.

7. Maiden Who Walks the Planet needs to be a Post Game DLC.
While this is another good idea, I think this will be like with Episode Gladiolus in Final Fantasy XV where his episode is set during the main game and before "Ten Years Later".

As for Post Game DLC, I want On the Way to a Smile of Tifa, Barret, Yuffie, Nanaki and ShinRa to be DLC despite what Nomura said earlier. But then again, that man always says things that makes everyone confused and mixed with emotions of excitements and disappointments.


9. I want Jenova to have a manifestation in Cloud's mindscape, and possibly be a boss battle for Tifa to fight against solo.
Either that or a ghostly version of Sephiroth.

10. G-bike should be a fast-travel option between all major cities.
I think they'll add that into the remake anyway to make up for the failed attempts to release it internationally with the IOS game three years back.

Agree with all of those, have a few comments.

2. Yes, totally... it will clear up the confusion/theory that Cloud killed Aerith. Of course all of the people here at TLS and most FF7 fans understand that Aerith sinking like a stone is just an oversight... also if you even bother to pay close attention to the CGI used in Aerith's death, you'll see a lot of mistakes and horrible inconsistencies. So it doesn't surprise me that no one asked what the physics of a dead human body was when put in water.
Cloud didn't kill Aerith. Even I know that. He was about to due to Jenova/Sephiroth, but was stopped by the others. Aerith was struck from behind by Sephiroth, as shown in both the Original game and in Cloud's memory in Advent Children Complete(the upgrade of Advent Children itself).

@Hian - Like you said, only after Sephiroth is beaten by Cloud does he dissolve into the lifestream, and this is the only occurrence of being dissolved in the original. The dissolving to the recently killed was a compilation thing. But considering Nomura's comments about how the Remake takes the Compilation out of context they might this is one thing that is going to change again. I'd love to see where they go with it. It's a very big part of Crisis Core, Zack countless times watches people dissolve into the lifestream, but it fucks with death portrayed in the original game.
Nah, I don't think that'll change. Plus, Sephiorth dissolved into the Lifestream but has managed to keep his mind alive to infect the planet to cause Geostigma and create Kadaj's group to find the remains of Jenova's head to ressurrect himself.

7. Episode of Aerith DLC - But Srsly I would like if this happened. IIRC this story of Aerith is the "non-canon" one and is retconned by On a Way to Smile... However this one was a much longer and deeper story of Aerith being in the Lifestream, meeting President Shinra, Zack, Sephiroth, and others.
A reunion with Zack in the Lifestream would be something worth seeing.

A MAJOR THING

I hope to god they fix the localization of the game with this Remake. By this I mean we understand that the person we are chasing is Jenova in the first parts of the game, not Sephiroth. The localization is something I can't see them keeping the same, it screws with the western perception of the story.
The story's being screwed up right now as it is since the Remake's not being directly connected with the Compilation(as of now, according to the interview, but I'm still hoping that some of it will be mentioned). Gosh, it's not even remotely connected to the original game either, since in another interview a while back, it was originally going to be, but they changed their minds since they didn't want to give off the impression of the Remake being a sequel.

In short, I don't think Nomura's really good in storywise of anything, except for the Kingdom Hearts franchise...and even then, he keeps messing with people's heads with false leads and then some.
 

Unit-01

Waiting on Evangelion 3.0+1.0
AKA
Sicarius VI, Pink Guy, Sic, Anthony
#12
^ @Tashasaurous

Cloud didn't kill Aerith. Even I know that. He was about to due to Jenova/Sephiroth, but was stopped by the others. Aerith was struck from behind by Sephiroth, as shown in both the Original game and in Cloud's memory in Advent Children Complete(the upgrade of Advent Children itself).
Please make sure you clearly read what I write down before you respond to it.

I never said that, I was meaning to say that fixing Aerith's death to have her not sink like a stone would destroy that stupid theory that raised about Cloud killing Aerith. When you post stuff like this it is apparent you skimmed what I wrote and didn't read/pay attention to all of it. Never did I say Cloud killed Aerith, I absolutely hate that theory that states she was still alive and drowned because Cloud put her in the lake. All from the oversight of the developers when making a rather beautiful and tragic scene.


Nah, I don't think that'll change. Plus, Sephiorth dissolved into the Lifestream but has managed to keep his mind alive to infect the planet to cause Geostigma and create Kadaj's group to find the remains of Jenova's head to ressurrect himself.
Well they kinda need to actually. From the source material and compilations you have two very different ways death is portrayed. Maybe change isn't the word, but they are going to need to pick which way of death is right.

OR In the Remake it establishes it's own rules of death and the gap of time in between dying and being absorbed into the Lifestream.

Regardless this is something that I expect will change. In CC and the Compilation the planet seems to very quickly dissolve the dead, but then why in the Original doesn't Aerith's body go as quickly as Zack's did at the end of CC?

Part of me believes it may have been due to hardware limitations at the time, but then it happens to Sephiroth at the end, so frankly it's just an oversight they didn't think to hard about and hopefully be fixing it when the Remake releases.

A reunion with Zack in the Lifestream would be something worth seeing.
A reunion does happen in the story Chip is referring to and would be great to get some closure between the two outside of text off a "non-canon" source.

I've always been wanting something like a Reunion between Zack and Aerith after playing through CC. The whole reason Zack is trying to get to Midgar despite knowing full well all of Shinra is after him is because of Aerith.

Also to point out, some type of reunion did happen evident by the ending in Advent Children. Actually being able to see that would be awesome.

Although I do just want to bring up there is a lot of value having no interaction with Aerith after she dies like in the original. She dies and stays dead, and it's only after the party goes on a kinda mystery hunt do they realize what Aerith was trying to do. At no point is there any interaction with her of any kind. Which is the reason why I'd want something like this to be DLC, if this is at all plausible to actually happen. As much as I'd want an Episode of Aerith DLC, I'd highly doubt it would happen.


The story's being screwed up right now as it is since the Remake's not being directly connected with the Compilation(as of now, according to the interview, but I'm still hoping that some of it will be mentioned). Gosh, it's not even remotely connected to the original game either, since in another interview a while back, it was originally going to be, but they changed their minds since they didn't want to give off the impression of the Remake being a sequel.
While this is a problem that lets Nomura do fuck all with the lore and stories created over the past 20 years, this isn't what I meant.

I mean, just the original alone. The English localization team screwed up and lost major chunks of the plot in translation. The major one being the belief we are chasing Sephiroth as he flings parts of Jenova at us. What is actually happening is Sephiroth is controlling Jenova's body from the Northern Crater. This is made clear to the Japanese audience but is lost when brought over to Western audiences.
 

Tashasaurous

Tash for Short
AKA
Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
#13
Please make sure you clearly read what I write down before you respond to it.

I never said that, I was meaning to say that fixing Aerith's death to have her not sink like a stone would destroy that stupid theory that raised about Cloud killing Aerith. When you post stuff like this it is apparent you skimmed what I wrote and didn't read/pay attention to all of it. Never did I say Cloud killed Aerith, I absolutely hate that theory that states she was still alive and drowned because Cloud put her in the lake. All from the oversight of the developers when making a rather beautiful and tragic scene.
Sorry, my bad. It's just, I've never heard of that theory before and, really, that's the stupidest theory I've ever heard, especially since we all had seen what really happened. I agree with you on this note, and plus, how the hell could Aerith still be alive when no one even survives a critical wound from being impiled like that.

Well they kinda need to actually. From the source material and compilations you have two very different ways death is portrayed. Maybe change isn't the word, but they are going to need to pick which way of death is right.

OR In the Remake it establishes it's own rules of death and the gap of time in between dying and being absorbed into the Lifestream.

Regardless this is something that I expect will change. In CC and the Compilation the planet seems to very quickly dissolve the dead, but then why in the Original doesn't Aerith's body go as quickly as Zack's did at the end of CC?

Part of me believes it may have been due to hardware limitations at the time, but then it happens to Sephiroth at the end, so frankly it's just an oversight they didn't think to hard about and hopefully be fixing it when the Remake releases.
That's true. Plus, there'll be several changes to the Remake and there're already a few examples; Barret wearing sunglasses which in both Original game and in the Compilation, he doesn't have any.

A reunion does happen in the story Chip is referring to and would be great to get some closure between the two outside of text off a "non-canon" source.

I've always been wanting something like a Reunion between Zack and Aerith after playing through CC. The whole reason Zack is trying to get to Midgar despite knowing full well all of Shinra is after him is because of Aerith.

Also to point out, some type of reunion did happen evident by the ending in Advent Children. Actually being able to see that would be awesome.

Although I do just want to bring up there is a lot of value having no interaction with Aerith after she dies like in the original. She dies and stays dead, and it's only after the party goes on a kinda mystery hunt do they realize what Aerith was trying to do. At no point is there any interaction with her of any kind. Which is the reason why I'd want something like this to be DLC, if this is at all plausible to actually happen. As much as I'd want an Episode of Aerith DLC, I'd highly doubt it would happen.
I know that the reason why Zack wanted to return to Midgar was because of Aerith. I've played Crisis Core and I've re-watched it on Youtube countless of times. Otherwise, Zack would've kept himself and Cloud away as much as possible, right?

Plus, Zack and Aerith do match together like how Cloud and Tifa match together, and the ending scene of Advent Children always warms and melts my heart.

And yeah, I agree that an Episode of Aerith DLC would most likely not happen, as much as it would be cool. Then again, Nomura's not Tabata, and I certainly will never see a HD CG remake of Before Crisis and especially not any english HD CG Episodes of Tseng, Reno and Legend, that's for sure. Hell, not even video gameplays of Episode Reno and Episode Legend either.

While this is a problem that lets Nomura do fuck all with the lore and stories created over the past 20 years, this isn't what I meant.

I mean, just the original alone. The English localization team screwed up and lost major chunks of the plot in translation. The major one being the belief we are chasing Sephiroth as he flings parts of Jenova at us. What is actually happening is Sephiroth is controlling Jenova's body from the Northern Crater. This is made clear to the Japanese audience but is lost when brought over to Western audiences.
I think it's mainly because translators back in 1997 were still learning how to translate Japanese text to other languages, especially in English back then. Besides, lots of fans correct this themselves in fanfiction or creating fan scripts, and I think they'll fix this up anyway.

Not only that, but a lot of people do research online to understand the FFVII franchise more...at least I do, admittedly while playing/watching the games as well.

The only thing that I still don't understand, is what Genesis is doing with Weiss's dead body in the secret ending of Dirge of Cerberus. Other than that, combining the original game's storyline and the titles of the Compilation, it makes sense to me.
 
AKA
Fancy
#14
Oooh, oooh, I think I've finally decided how I want Aeris's burial scene to play out. Cloud is laying Aeris's body to rest and it's all drawn out and dramatic right? We get cuts to Cloud's face all anguished, cuts to Aeris's face all ethereal, cuts to Avalanche grieving by the shore. Then, finally, when Aeris's body begins to sink, the camera cuts to Cloud's face again, pinched first in pain and then in confusion as he cocks his head to the side as though he's trying to figure something out. Then he looks down to his feet and starts to plummet down to the bottom of the lake after Aeris.

Okay, no, not officially, but can this be a bonus scene that I unlock? Oooh, or maybe a blooper reel that pokes fun at all the fan favourite mistakes found in English release of the OG?

"This guy are sick."
"BY THE GODS, CUT!!!!"

"Is Aerith on set? Aerith on set? Aerith?"
"That's not my name. It's Aeris, thank you."
~later~
"We got Aeris on set? Aeris on set, please. Aeris?"
"That's not my name. It's Aerith, thank you."

Dammit, is it too much to ask?
 
#15
To me, it makes sense because it would be the ultimate resolution for Barret to choose peace over violence. Even though he doesn't kill Dyne, he's not given the option to show Dyne Mercy, since he elects suicide. Otherwise, everything Barret handles, he handles with violence. But being given the option for once to choose peace feels like a resolution where he can truly be the father he's always afraid he couldn't be, with hands too stained with blood.
I'd just like to mention that Barret clearly shows he does not want to fight Dyne to begin with.
Barret does not need the option to show Dyne mercy, because Barret had no inclination of fighting Dyne to begin with. The fight is something Dyne forces on Barret, which Barret reluctantly engages in, presumable because like any sane human being, he does not want to die.
 

ChipNoir

Pro Adventurer
#16
To me, it makes sense because it would be the ultimate resolution for Barret to choose peace over violence. Even though he doesn't kill Dyne, he's not given the option to show Dyne Mercy, since he elects suicide. Otherwise, everything Barret handles, he handles with violence. But being given the option for once to choose peace feels like a resolution where he can truly be the father he's always afraid he couldn't be, with hands too stained with blood.
I'd just like to mention that Barret clearly shows he does not want to fight Dyne to begin with.
Barret does not need the option to show Dyne mercy, because Barret had no inclination of fighting Dyne to begin with. The fight is something Dyne forces on Barret, which Barret reluctantly engages in, presumable because like any sane human being, he does not want to die.
Either way, death and violence are a running theme for Barret, where it seems like, either by outside force, or his own ideology, violence is the only answer to solve his problems. So for a resolution, I'd like to see a point where he embraces peace actively.
 
#17
That seems to be a running theme for all JRPG characters in general to be honest, given that the only way these poor sods seem capable of doing anything, is move from village to village mowing down everything in their paths.
I'm not sure I buy that Barret needs a resolution past what he's given in the game (because he is given it), any more than any of the other characters.

I'm also not sure what I would mean to Barret to embrace peace actively at that point without it being a token gesture of no real meaning, given that until the actual end of the game with the death of Sephiroth, Barret, like the rest of the gang, still has a bunch of killing left to do anyways.

I agree that Barret could be given a satisfying peaceful ending to his arc, but I think this would be far more efficiently done, if you really have to, by showing him raising Marlene in peace as an epilogue scene.
 

Roger

Triple Slash Enthusiast
AKA
Minato
#18
Being able to visit Marlene during the game, specifically having a scene just after you suicide Dyne is all Barret needs to be a more complete character.
 
#20
how are they going to handle updated graphix with a 4 year old barmaid
I am convinced that they will either remove the scene entirely, or pay homage to it in some way. Marlene could say "I'll take care of the bar!" and everybody smiles, when naturally a babysitter stays around and there will be no mixing- and creating of drinks by a 4-year-old. :wacky:
 

Fangu

Great Old One
#21
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. They'll probably make a point out of how she wasn't there by herself, but had someone to watch her.

And you know what... it kind of makes me starting to feel about the remake like

 
#22
I think Johnny's parents would make sense as the babysitters. It'd also distract them from the sadness after their son just left home.

...And then they died when the plate fell. :monster:
 

Wimbly

Garden Festival Retiree
#23
I am still hoping they keep Zacks death and Clouds first lucid moment very minimalistic regarding dialogue and atmosphere. IMO the OG portrayed a very morbid sobering scene whereas CC went in a different direction that, for me, didn't have the same impact.

I also hope they keep the Honey Bee Inn Jenova scene creepy as hell.
 
#24
It's the slums, and the home base of a terrorist group. Is leaving her there by herself really going to be a huge scanda?
I'm not sure where everyone always got the impression that the bar was still open when they left. Marlene was just playing with the drink shaker because she sees Tifa do it.
 
#25
It's the slums, and the home base of a terrorist group. Is leaving her there by herself really going to be a huge scanda?
Big enough of an issue me thinks, yes. We're supposed to sympathize with Barret the family man, as a contrast to his aggressive persona and eco-terrorist activities. If he just leaves 4-year-old Marlene without a supervisor, that's going to raise eyebrows through the roof and make Barret less believable as a father figure.

I'm not sure where everyone always got the impression that the bar was still open when they left. Marlene was just playing with the drink shaker because she sees Tifa do it.
And that will hopefully be made clear via the higher graphical fidelity and with the updated script. With the presentation of the original game, numerous scenes are ambiguous in this way and leave themselves open for questionable interpretations. Your interpretation makes sense Force but it's clearly not the only perspective around.
 
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