New Trailer Incoming @ Concert

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I'm with you on that, Kazuma. It took me a while to realise, but that's actually what I want.

 

[BforB]

First post ever * also been lurking in the shadows here are thelifestream.net for many years:

Observation regarding the wraiths belonging to Cloud or Aerith: The key art image seems to have one of those "ghosts" included... I think Cloud is carrying them around, unaware...

TL/DR testimony

I see many people complaining about these "ghosts" all around YouTube... And the fanbase community of this game is great but sometimes awful.
With that being said, I want a fresh game with an elaborated story so I'm eager to see the wraiths and new elements in action. I'm thinking a lot of the original 97' story and content was written on the go. To prove that, in purely speculative manner... Look at the many plot holes and many radical mood shifts. For example, the moment you leave Midgar, bam, it's a classic fantasy-ish story. While in development, they wanted Sephiroth to be a sibling of Aerith/Aeris. The ancient temple looks 100% Egyptian. I feel like it's only right for them to start creating and developing a lore that's original and true to the rest of the world of FFVII.
The thing is that with 2015-2020, there are fresh eyes at play, as they involved younger developers. Some with more experience and I'm guessing they can invest into creating a deeper artistic expression of this story. I'm all open for changes and I regard them as improvements... FF7 97' will always stay true and be there.
My past experience HD remakes or Redux versions are shallow. For example, I'm also a big fan of this game, called Oddworld Abe's Oddysey. They came up with a 3D remake of it... exactly the same game. Maybe some slight modification but it stayed pretty true. While it was impressive and fun, I still tend to go back, lead by nostalgia into playing the 97' version. I still prefer that over this newer remake. It might me because off the prerenderd backgrounds that made games look unique at all times. In 3D environments, many assets tend to repeat, creating this plastic universe. Even so, my I don't wanna go back to 97' to play the same game but in 3D. I feel like a great opportunity is being missed out. My hopes with this post is that I could encourage some of you to look forward to a newer retelling our favorite story.

Absolutely agreed. I'm excited for all the changes and to see their renewed vision unfold.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't see how that would indicate that, he's just alerting the President what the group is calling itself.

And the fact that the iteration of AVALANCHE of FFVII isn't the first group of Planet protecting eco-terrorists to bear that name wasn't exclusive to the Compilation or a plot point that originated from BC. Barret reveals he was inspired to use that name for his group from hearing about a scholar of planet life from Cosmo Canyon who wanted to stop Shinra and formed a group by that name. There were always 2 AVALANCHEs in the original FFVII. Barret wasn't the first to create it.

The original game never established that they were two separate groups -- only that someone else began the organization with that name. Barret mentions the person who formed Avalanche had studied at Cosmo Canyon, but he never says "the original Avalanche" or anything to that effect.

The implication (until BC came along) was that Barret joined this group and eventually became its leader. It was established since at least 1997 (if not earlier) in that really old "Making of Final Fantasy VII" featurette that Avalanche's leader was assassinated on 0007/10/5; that Shin-Ra and Avalanche's conflict had entered a tense "cold war" sort of situation by 0007/11/3; and that the main events of the game began on 12/9. We also hear early into the opening bombing mission of "how many of our people risked their lives, just for this code" -- and so putting all these details together gave us a sense of one continuous organization whose leadership changed hands as other members died.

Also, I vividly recall the surprise from all of us some 14 to 15 years ago when we learned that the organization prominently featured in BC was a completely different group. =P

 

[Ryuman]

I think I prefer the idea of a separate AVALANCHE because I think Shinra being either unaware or struggling to pin down 5 random copycat wackos is more believable than 5 wackos who apparently survived a purge of what otherwise seemed like a wholly competent terrorist organisation (Though I know little of BC).
And yes I understand there were probably other people in Barret's group who died, I'm just saying

 

[Makoeyes987]

The original game never established that they were two separate groups -- only that someone else began the organization with that name. Barret mentions the person who formed Avalanche had studied at Cosmo Canyon, but he never says "the original Avalanche" or anything to that effect.

The implication (until BC came along) was that Barret joined this group and eventually became its leader. It was established since at least 1997 (if not earlier) in that really old "Making of Final Fantasy VII" featurette that Avalanche's leader was assassinated on 0007/10/5; that Shin-Ra and Avalanche's conflict had entered a tense "cold war" sort of situation by 0007/11/3; and that the main events of the game began on 12/9. We also hear early into the opening bombing mission of "how many of our people risked their lives, just for this code" -- and so putting all these details together gave us a sense of one continuous organization whose leadership changed hands as other members died.

Wow, now I never really thought of it that way. The words of the OG are ambiguous enough to establish the idea of a continuum between the group and it getting a brand new leader in Barret.

However, I always just thought it was Barret being inspired to name his group in Midgar after the group that originated in Cosmo Canyon. He does say, when everyone's around the Cosmo Candle fire, that Cosmo Canyon is "where AVALANCHE was born" and he wanted to take Biggs, Wedge and Jesse to Cosmo Canyon to celebrate after they saved the planet from the Shinra.

Also I never fully saw the "Making of Final Fantasy VII" featurette from the International Version of FFVII. So that disc served as the very first timeline of events of FFVII?

That date choice is interesting, since that's the same date the subsequent timelines use to place when Fuhito was defeated by the Turks in Before Crisis, upon his merger with Zirconaide. So obviously, that was kept in mind for when they created that story.

But the other date? Now that's new. I'm not sure what a tense "cold war" situation would be in 11/3 since nothing else really happens. So could that be in reference to perhaps Barret's group finally starting to move?

Yeah, that's an interesting point to raise.

Also, I vividly recall the surprise from all of us some 14 to 15 years ago when we learned that the organization prominently featured in BC was a completely different group. =P

Well I wasn't surprised by that point. I was more interested in how they revealed that AVALANCHE was led by a woman with a katana who could somehow stand toe-to-toe with Sephiroth, and they had a scientist who was just as nuts as Hojo.

 

[Kionae]

I'm going with the wraiths being a manifestation of Sephiroth's will that eventually activates his clones. We've seen the clones vanish like ghosts before in the original game (while traversing the whirlwind maze). I think they may simply be fleshing them out a bit more. The wraith scene in the trailer presumably takes place after the first bombing mission. After the second (failed) bombing mission in the OG, you can encounter the "This guy are sick" dude in the pipe, who turns out to be a clone. I think the wraiths are a representation of Sephiroth's will seeking out those with Jenova cells and turning them into mindless drones. The sick guy is just mid-process, because the wraiths already reached him.

I mean... those people obvious weren't in clone-mode the whole time following the Nibelheim incident. The must have had conscious lives and spread out across the planet (one winding up in a pipe in Midgar) until Sephiroth needed them. Maybe the wraiths were coming for Cloud (being that, he, too, is a clone of sorts) in an attempt to take him over as well, and Aerith, being a Cetra and connected to the Lifestream (where Sephiroth's physical form is located at that point in the game) could see them before they actually reached him.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm going with the wraiths being a manifestation of Sephiroth's will that eventually activates his clones. We've seen the clones vanish like ghosts before in the original game (while traversing the whirlwind maze). I think they may simply be fleshing them out a bit more. The wraith scene in the trailer presumably takes place after the first bombing mission. After the second (failed) bombing mission in the OG, you can encounter the "This guy are sick" dude in the pipe, who turns out to be a clone. I think the wraiths are a representation of Sephiroth's will seeking out those with Jenova cells and turning them into mindless drones. The sick guy is just mid-process, because the wraiths already reached him.

Hmm, so like... disembodied portions of his spirit? That's an interesting take on the concept. The difference though, is the Sephiroth Copies reflect Sephiroth's will by just being mindless devoted slaves for him. They lose their sense of self in regards to their own personality. However, what you're describing sounds more akin to literal possession. When Sephiroth's will takes control of someone who's a "Sephiroth Copy," they are manipulated and forced to do what Sephiroth wills them to do because what Sephiroth wants becomes what they want. However, the only one who gets directly possessed by Sephiroth's complete consciousness and personality, is Jenova's body that manifests in his appearance.

If they go that route, the Remake would be making a direct reference to another unused concept of FFVII where Cloud wasn't just being controlled by Sephiroth, Cloud literally was Sephiroth's entire alter ego.

Tifa: “Cloud! What are you doing? You mustn’t! If you do that, Sephiroth will cast Meteor!”

Tseng: “Is he insane?”

Rufus: “No, he’s not. This is who he really is.”

Red XIII: “What did you say!”

Rufus: “It’s just as Sephiroth said, that man doesn’t exist in this world. He’s a shadow created by Sephiroth. (To Cloud) When Sephiroth died when he fell into the mako reactor, he had a strong desire to live. Born as a result was Sephiroth’s shadow. Cloud, that’s you, isn’t it?”

Cloud: “To complete my will, I needed to obtain Meteor. However, to do so I required a body able to move freely. That powerful will created the one called Cloud. Cloud’s memories are not his own. They are Sephiroth’s memories. The image of ‘Cloud’ created within Cloud’s memories is nothing but phantom. He’s the manifestation of a fraction of Sephiroth’s emotions.”

Rufus: “So you thought you were trying to stop Sephiroth’s plans, but you were just being used all along.”

Cloud: “But Cloud’s mission ends here.”

Vincent: “All of SOLDIER are injected with energy from Jenova in some form or another. Sephiroth is an example of a successful subject. But we were totally against that, toying with human life… Because of this the Sephiroth project was suspended, as far as the public was concerned, but Shinra continued with the experiments in secret. Those involved implanting Jenova cells into an adult human being.”

Cloud: “That’s SOLDIER. And me too. But since, unlike Sephiroth, our bodies have already fully grown, we couldn’t become Jenova life forms as perfect as Sephiroth. The human spirit wins out in the end. So even though Sephiroth’s spirit laid hidden within my mind, it was held back by Cloud’s personality. But my complexes covered up the present Cloud personality. So my memories of the past… Sephiroth started to take control over me.”

Vincent: “Within the hearts of those who sense a weakness of will within themselves, Sephiroth gradually awakens… That was a side-effect of the project.”

I mean... those people obvious weren't in clone-mode the whole time following the Nibelheim incident. The must have had conscious lives and spread out across the planet (one winding up in a pipe in Midgar) until Sephiroth needed them. Maybe the wraiths were coming for Cloud (being that, he, too, is a clone of sorts) in an attempt to take him over as well, and Aerith, being a Cetra and connected to the Lifestream (where Sephiroth's physical form is located at that point in the game) could see them before they actually reached him.

Actually... They were in clone mode after the Nibelheim Incident.

The survivors of Nibelheim were literally rendered mindless and blank after Hojo treated them after their survival of Sephiroth's massacre. They didn't have any shred of their previous personalities, because their minds were broken due to being exposed to high levels of mako and Jenova cells. They were like how Cloud was in Crisis Core, and FFVII. Except they never got better.

The guy who was sick in Midgar was somewhat conscious and functional, but he succumbed to the Jenova cells and his ego shattered. Most of the copies just stayed put in Nibelheim, being continuously watched by Shinra, until Sephiroth compelled them to scatter and seek out the Black Materia, to the best of their abilities.

 

[hui43210]

For me, the more original story content added the better. I love the FF 7 expanded universe, and I like the idea of incorporating more of those elements in the main story itself. Plus, I've played the original story many times since 1997, just rehashing plot points wouldn't be as fun as mixing it up. I want a new experience, so the more batshit Nomora gets, the better in my book!

 

[OdaDaimyO]

It could've still be Sephiroth's will who woke up Jenova from her slumber...BUT, what about Cloud? The blood massacre in the Shinra Tower... could be possibly his doing, right?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It could've still be Sephiroth's will who woke up Jenova from her slumber...BUT, what about Cloud? The blood massacre in the Shinra Tower... could be possibly his doing, right?

It wasn't in the original, but who knows what they'll do this time.

 

[OdaDaimyO]

It wasn't in the original, but who knows what they'll do this time.

When Sephiroth has the full control over Cloud's Jenova cells, then maybe he can manipulate Cloud's appearance, that's why Palmer thought it was Sephiroth...

I mean think about it, why is Jenovas breakout happening at the same time when Cloud & Co. are imprisoned in the same building? Coincidence? I think not...

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Pretty sure you can see some magic materia in Barret's weapon here. Apologies if already noted elsewhere.

View attachment 3391

Cloud's got one in the end of the trailer as well, so it looks like they're active in scenes all the time once they're added.



X

 

[Highwind]

Definitely materia.

 

[Sprites]

Ahhh that answers my thoughts on what I assumed was a button or screw in the previous screenshot it looked so hard to tell in the previous one.

I am so excited for how they're gonna expand the story and everything this remake is bringing and it does seem like they're expanding on some of the original concepts of at least referencing them in some form, I know there's only the black mist and speculation but it seems to tie in so well already to some of that original concept.

God I've never been so excited or wanted to play a game this badly in such a long time, I can't believe it's only 9 months away!

 

[Roger]

Definitely materia.

Yeah, that screenshot clears any doubts I still had. <3

 

[Lex]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=784304881963379

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Is that "tomorrow" relative to today or yesterday?

 

[Highwind]

Is that "tomorrow" relative to today or yesterday?

Today at Square's conference.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

It's definitely because SE's Conference is at 10AM tomorrow Japan Time (and 2am BST). The US is the only one who gets it "today" as it were. Normally you'd use a date & time, but you don't want to confuse people with a date that's NOT the release date in this kind of simple marketing communication when that was just announced. (The giveaway is the PEGI 16 rating in the bottom corner as this post being an EU-centric piece of marketing in English rather than an NA one).





X

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Today at Square's conference.

I meant "What day then is 'today'?" XD

But I think X has clarified it for me now.

 

[Kionae]

Hmm, so like... disembodied portions of his spirit? That's an interesting take on the concept. The difference though, is the Sephiroth Copies reflect Sephiroth's will by just being mindless devoted slaves for him. They lose their sense of self in regards to their own personality. However, what you're describing sounds more akin to literal possession. When Sephiroth's will takes control of someone who's a "Sephiroth Copy," they are manipulated and forced to do what Sephiroth wills them to do because what Sephiroth wants becomes what they want. However, the only one who gets directly possessed by Sephiroth's complete consciousness and personality, is Jenova's body that manifests in his appearance.

Well... not so much possession. More like... tendrils of Sephiroth's will reaching out from the Lifestream in search of those who possess Jenova cells. And when they find someone, it's like a puppetmaster picking up a previously discarded puppet. I suppose you could think of them as the puppet strings, in a manner of speaking.

But... that's all pure conjecture on my part.

 

[pxp]

How long is SQE's conference going to be? And is the Mon 18:00 PST slot the only window within which we'll get 7:R news? Or is there something else happening too this week?

 

[Kai Schulen]

I'm guessing from an hour to 2 hours, depending on how much content they have.

 

[pxp]

I'm guessing from an hour to 2 hours, depending on how much content they have.

Oh cool, much longer than I expected (though not good for work tomorrow!) - thanks

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

How long is SQE's conference going to be? And is the Mon 18:00 PST slot the only window within which we'll get 7:R news? Or is there something else happening too this week?

I suspect the remake will start showing up on streaming schedules after the conference. Right now, Gamespot has "a key Japanese title from Square Enix" scheduled to be on their stage Tuesday at 2:40 PST. That might turn out to be the remake?