New year, New LTD thread. (Round 5)

[I Am Not Me]

But Sephiroth didn't die then, did he? Cloud thought he avenged his town and his mother by throwing him in the reactor all those years ago, and then suddenly he's up and about, stealing mothers and killing fat guys and whatnot.

So Cloud follows a trail of blood out of curiosity and confusion. "I THOUGHT I KILLD DIS GAI BUT NOW HES HERE AGAIN HMM I SHOULD GO SEE IF IT RLY IS HIM *travel travel*"

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I dunno about you Bubblegum, but personally that'd just make me mad all over again. This is how I see it:

"So my only family, everyone I knew growing up except my secret crush, my best friend, even the town itself are all dead. And now the guy who did all that WON'T EVEN STAY DEAD?!?!?! Fuck that noise, I'm gonna make it stick this time!"

Seriously, while less dramatic I think Cloud feels this way too. Notice the moment he learns Sephiroth is alive, he goes from "meh, just here as a mercenary/to save Aerith from the Shinra" to "I have to settle the score."

Edit: Oh and don't forget that up until the Lifestream sequence, Cloud did not even remember killing Sephiroth. His story in Kalm ends before they ever clash, with him having no idea how he even survived.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

But Sephiroth didn't die then, did he? Cloud thought he avenged his town and his mother by throwing him in the reactor all those years ago, and then suddenly he's up and about, stealing mothers and killing fat guys and whatnot.

So Cloud follows a trail of blood out of curiosity and confusion. "I THOUGHT I KILLD DIS GAI BUT NOW HES HERE AGAIN HMM I SHOULD GO SEE IF IT RLY IS HIM *travel travel*"

Well technically he did die and was mostly being zombie!revived which is what we find out sometime in the middle of disc wheneverthefuckitwas when we see corpsey Sephy in that big ol' crystal and Cloud has his mental breakdownwhatever.

Edit: Oh and don't forget that up until the Lifestream sequence, Cloud did not even remember killing Sephiroth. His story in Kalm ends before they ever clash, with him having no idea how he even survived.

i am not entirely sure what this has to do with him avenging/not avenging nibelheim shit at least once

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

My point there is that if he doesn't remember that he DID avenge Nibelheim already, then even if my other point turned out to be wrong he'd think he was setting out to avenge them for the first time.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

well, technically, he did avenge his mom, nibelheim and almost killing tifa already by totally throwing sephy into a nuclear goddamn reactor and killing him dead.

so i can understand the view that she would totally be his motivator for killing him again

I guess anything's possible with a boner for Aeris & a complete disregard for the story.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I guess anything's possible with a boner for Aeris & a complete disregard for the story.

cloud can only seek vengeance for aerith because he has a boner for her

because she was his friend who died, that totally makes no sense

no he only cares about tifa cause he had sex with her/aerith because they had special gondola sex

 

[Madame Mayor]

Does that mean he's going to put her above his friends or choose her over his friends? No way, that's just silly. I know I shouldn't be comparing a game to real life, but a person that ditches their friends for their girlfriend/boyfriend is just a dick.

I'd like to announce to every friend I have on this forum... my boyfriend/significant other/future husband comes before all of you. Completely before all of you. Cause I'm a dick like that.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Sorry to all my friends here, cause I would save you if you were in danger and I could really. But if its one of those sadistic choice type dangers where I gotta choose between you and my girl you're all boned.

 

[Joker]

I'd like to announce to every friend I have on this forum... my boyfriend/significant other/future husband comes before all of you. Completely before all of you. Cause I'm a dick like that.

I feel so unloved ;_;

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

FRIENDS>BOYFRIEND

I MEAN IF HE WAS IN MORTAL DANGER HE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT MORE ABOUT DATING A SICK CHICK AMIRITE

 

[Zee]

I guess anything's possible with a boner for Aeris & a complete disregard for the story.

did you rly just respond to aki with this

honey you just went full retard

Oh and don't forget that up until the Lifestream sequence, Cloud did not even remember killing Sephiroth. His story in Kalm ends before they ever clash, with him having no idea how he even survived.

But that's exactly why Aeris is just a huge motivator -- because at this point in the story, we still don't know Cloud's deal. There's the question of whether or not he's even real. When Aeris died he displays some pretty raw emotion that confirms even in his muddled state, he's not a puppet and still has emotions separate from Jenova/Zack and two, is something undoubtedly real and personal to cling to. He even says, once he realized what Aeris was doing, that they were going to try and finish what she started and "above all, unfreeze her smile".

Not to mention, as I said, it also gives the audience a personal reason to want to kill Sephiroth -- and Cloud is supposed to be our avatar in the game, so it's not a stretch to comment on how personal it was to him too. We're supposed to feel what he's feeling. Other wise, well, there's kind of no point.

In a way, I think Cloud projected his mother onto Aerith. She's described as a mother figure to him and the planet, and he even calls her 'mother', right? By witnessing her death, and failing to protect her, he sees his own failure to save his mother in the situation, and so feels that way.

I'm sorry but this mother argument is just. so. stupid. Tifa is motherly and calls Cloud a big kid, but clearly that's not a deterrent in their romantic life, right? So why should that be said of Aeris? It's confirmed both girls are motherly, Tifa in a literal sense, Aeris in an earth mother sense. He's reacting to the feel of her presence which is warm and comforting and yes, motherly, but I doubt if you asked him about his relationship with her that'd be something he'd seriously consider.

Tifa also has jealous feelings over the "world" the built together which is distinctly...unmotherly.

 

[Frostwave]

Percy Sledge told me that When a Man Loves a Woman he'd turn his back on his best friend if he put her down.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

But that's exactly why Aeris is just a huge motivator -- because at this point in the story, we still don't know Cloud's deal. There's the question of whether or not he's even real. When Aeris died he displays some pretty raw emotion that confirms even in his muddled state, he's not a puppet and still has emotions separate from Jenova/Zack and two, is something undoubtedly real and personal to cling to. He even says, once he realized what Aeris was doing, that they were going to try and finish what she started and "above all, unfreeze her smile".

Ok, that made little sense to me. Cloud DID remember the Nibelheim incident the whole time. He had his role in the story wrong and thus could not recall what happened to Zack nor the ending where Sephy died, but he did remember all the other stuff. Town burned, everyone he knew including his MOTHER dead, crush cut down? Just because he hasn't told the group (and thus, the audience) about it yet doesn't mean he doesn't remember it. You seem to be confusing Cloud as an avatar for the player with Cloud as a character with his own history and characterization to me. Again, never said Aerith was not a goodly portion of his motivation. But ffs, she is not the be all end all reason for him to seek out and kill Sephiroth. He had LOTS of reasons long before Aerith died.

Not to mention, as I said, it also gives the audience a personal reason to want to kill Sephiroth -- and Cloud is supposed to be our avatar in the game, so it's not a stretch to comment on how personal it was to him too. We're supposed to feel what he's feeling. Other wise, well, there's kind of no point.

I fully agree, the death of the poor little Cetra was an excellent motive for we, the players, to kill Sephiroth. It was, as I've noted several times, the first time I ever became utterly enraged at a video game villain and desired their death so very personally. And it is, no doubt, an important reason for Cloud as well. But still, it was not by any means his only motivation. Or even his main motivation, imo. Of course he would talk more of Aerith during the game, as that was a wee bit more recent and, considering he was speaking literally of finishing Aerith's work for her and letting her move on its nice to see he still cares. But really, imo, she's just one more thing Sephiroth has done in a laundry list of reasons for Cloud to kill his pretty-boy ass.

 

[Zee]

But ffs, she is not the be all end all reason for him to seek out and kill Sephiroth. He had LOTS of reasons long before Aerith died.

OH MY GOD READING COMPREHENSION

i'm not saying she is the ~end all be all~ reason, i'm just saying she was an important one

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

OH MY GOG READING COMPREHENSION

fixed

 

[Ryushikaze]

cloud can only seek vengeance for aerith because he has a boner for her

because she was his friend who died, that totally makes no sense

no he only cares about tifa cause he had sex with her/aerith because they had special gondola sex

Err, not to explain the joke, but it's not Cloud with the boner in OWD's comment.

did you rly just respond to aki with this

honey you just went full retard

But that's exactly why Aeris is just a huge motivator -- because at this point in the story, we still don't know Cloud's deal. There's the question of whether or not he's even real. When Aeris died he displays some pretty raw emotion that confirms even in his muddled state, he's not a puppet and still has emotions separate from Jenova/Zack and two, is something undoubtedly real and personal to cling to.

But none of that makes her the primary reason for him wanting Sephiroth dead, which is what you said initially. Are you changing your statements now?

He even says, once he realized what Aeris was doing, that they were going to try and finish what she started and "above all, unfreeze her smile".

But again, that doesn't make her the primary reason he wants Sephiroth dead, because he wanted Sephy dead long before learning of any of that.

Not to mention, as I said, it also gives the audience a personal reason to want to kill Sephiroth -- and Cloud is supposed to be our avatar in the game, so it's not a stretch to comment on how personal it was to him too. We're supposed to feel what he's feeling. Other wise, well, there's kind of no point.

No. You're expected to empathize with the hero, but that does NOT mean you have to feel exactly as they do or your motivations will be the same as theirs. Squall and Zidane are two good examples of heroes you aren't expected to share the exact feelings of.

I'm sorry but this mother argument is just. so. stupid. Tifa is motherly and calls Cloud a big kid, but clearly that's not a deterrent in their romantic life, right? So why should that be said of Aeris? It's confirmed both girls are motherly, Tifa in a literal sense, Aeris in an earth mother sense. He's reacting to the feel of her presence which is warm and comforting and yes, motherly, but I doubt if you asked him about his relationship with her that'd be something he'd seriously consider.

Tifa feeling motherly towards Cloud is different from Cloud thinking of and calling Aerith mother. As for whether he'd consider her as his mother, he'd also probably completely dismiss the idea of romance with her out of hand to, since he was completely oblivious to the idea, even when told about it point blank.

Tifa also has jealous feelings over the "world" the built together which is distinctly...unmotherly.

Or at least Tifa perceives it that way. Cloud, meanwhile, has no clue she's being flirt with him.

 

[Zee]

As for weather he'd consider her as his mother, he'd also probably completely dismiss the idea of romance with her out of hand to, since he was completely oblivious to the idea, even when told about it point blank.

how is cloud oblivious to the idea of romance with her? she mentions going on a date with him like three times and each time he responds positively

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

'm not saying she is the ~end all be all~ reason, i'm just saying she was an important one

Then wtf are we debating?

 

[Madame Mayor]

how is cloud oblivious to the idea of romance with her? she mentions going on a date with him like three times and each time he responds positively

Both Aerith, who is forthright, and Tifa, who is demure, have feelings for Cloud but he is none the wiser to them.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Err, not to explain the joke, but it's not Cloud with the boner in OWD's comment.

my penis isn't even erect.

gosh, this thread sucks, i should really go back to /u/.

Or at least Tifa perceives it that way. Cloud, meanwhile, has no clue she's being flirt with him.

god, cloud's just a total social retard isn't he? tifa probably had to half smother him with boobs for him to realize she liked him

 

[Joker]

Btw, I would prefer not to choose but if it came down to it, always gonna choose the woman I love over my friends (this is assuming that she loves me back and we're all retarded happy and shit).

Friends are amazing, but that someone special will always be more precious to you because...well, you're not in love with your friends.

OR ARE YOU

 

[Lym]

Doesn't Cloud explain his motivations in his own words towards the end of the game?

 

[OneWingedDemon]

I know why I'm fighting. I'm fighting to save the Planet, and that's that.
But besides that, there's something personal too...A very personal memory that I have.

ALSO:

she mentions going on a date with him like three times and each time he responds positively

Err...where/when does this happen? How does he respond positively? Serious question, yo, I dun remember this shit.

 

[Dashell]

I just want to say, no offense to anyone, but if I had the choice to save Rob or save one of my friends, I'd probably go for Rob. So in that respect, I think Cloud is the same way with Tifa, but I don't think he'd like... just blow his friends off or anything.

she mentions going on a date with him like three times and each time he responds positively

Err...where/when does this happen? How does he respond positively? Serious question, yo, I dun remember this shit.

In the Shinra building is one. He says "I'm your bodyguard" and she says "The deal was for one date right?" He's kind of acknowledging it anyway.

god, cloud's just a total social retard isn't he? tifa probably had to half smother him with boobs for him to realize she liked him

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not but... she kinda did

EDIT
BTW:

i'm not saying she is the ~end all be all~ reason, i'm just saying she was an important one

I agree, Aeris' death was pretty much the main motivator, for both Cloud and the audience. The whole point of her death was that it wasn't just a hum-ho "we have to save the day cause we're the heroes" it was "MY NAME IS INIGO MONTOYA. YOU KILLED MY CETRA. PREPARE TO DIE."

 

[Tir McDohl]

Yar, when they first meet he agrees to be her bodyguard for a price(because Hardass Cloud is all about the gil). She then proposes the payment be a date. He doesn't say anything, but he makes some weird gesture I don't remember.

And then another time when they speak from different cells inside the Shinra building. She says she'd knew he'd come, he shrugs and says "Hey, I'm your bodyguard, right?" and Aerith says "The deal was for one date, right?" He doesn't say anything there either. Tifa cuts in.

He didn't ever give much of a response at all to the idea, let alone a positive one.

Stuff like this reminds me of how much I want a remake. Facial expressions. I enjoy them.