One of SE's goals with the Remake seems to be...

[Jairus]

With all that we've been getting about the Remake and all the effort and care that's being put into it, I have a feeling that one of the things that SE wants to give us out of the whole Remake project is, to paraphrase from the back cover of the original FFVII:

"Quite possibly the greatest game ever made... Again..."

It just seems to me that that's part of what they may be aiming for, and given the quality of what we've seen so far, they may just get it. I certainly hope so, anyway.

 

[Roundhouse]

The cynical part of me is wondering if this is actually an attempt to create the greatest series, rather than game. Turning a single great game into a series of games spread out over years. Making Midgar an entire game reminds me a bit of how they spread The Hobbit out over three movies, and thus had to put in a lot of padding and such. This isn't quite the same situation, as I believe they still have the original writers (?), but I do worry about it. I have a bad feeling that we'll be fighting Sephiroth in the year 2030...

Aside from that, I'm pleasantly surprised from what I've seen and heard so far. The expanded dialogue between characters is especially awesome.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Making Midgar an entire game reminds me a bit of how they spread The Hobbit out over three movies ...

Not at all the association they should be looking for.

 

[FFShinra]

If one is being pessimistic, sure, it's the Hobbit. But if one is optimistic, it's more like the original LOTR trilogy. On another thread, I viewed this as an interactive tv show with each game being a season.

I choose to be optimistic.

 

[Kain424]

Hard NOT to be optimistic right now. Everything looks really good.

Of course, they could have those "guardians of fate" or whatever show up and feel totally shoehorned in. They could heavily foreshadow THAT death, which would suck.

But yeah, I'd rather be optimistic as well.

 

[Jairus]

I never understood the flack that the Hobbit movies got. Most of the extra stuff came from the appendices in LOTR, so it's stuff that was already there and was already in the background. Tauriel was the main bit that was original, and I can see how some might see her as an Arwen-wannabe. But it never felt to me like the extra stuff dragged that much. That's just me, though. Sorry to get off topic, just thought I'd see if anyone could explain that to me since I do like the movies, though the LOTR movies (the extended versions in particular) are of course better.

 

[Roundhouse]

Honestly, I don't hate The Hobbit movies, but I do find them underwhelming. Some of the action scenes in particular really dragged for me (the Dwarves versus Smaug, for example). There are some good bits in there too though, and Jackson even made some nice changes at points. Maybe it's just that they feel so much less compelling than LOTR?

In regard to FFVII, I worry because it's one game, with a complete story. Splitting it into chunks over the space of years and inserting a lot of extra material is a very tricky process -- if you're not careful, you can really mess with the pacing and the general quality of the narrative, and I don't think I'm alone when I say that the narrative is the strongest part of the original game. It's not even just the concept of splitting it into pieces, but the fact that the first piece is just Midgar. A lot depends on how much each part will cover, but at that pace it's worrying.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I never understood the flack that the Hobbit movies got. Most of the extra stuff came from the appendices in LOTR, so it's stuff that was already there and was already in the background. Tauriel was the main bit that was original, and I can see how some might see her as an Arwen-wannabe. But it never felt to me like the extra stuff dragged that much. That's just me, though. Sorry to get off topic, just thought I'd see if anyone could explain that to me since I do like the movies, though the LOTR movies (the extended versions in particular) are of course better.

Since you asked, I do have an answer. I'll put it behind spoiler tags to reduce thread derailment.

Spoiler

I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about the additional material brought in from the Appendices and such. That is typically praised as one creative decision well considered.

The issues with the trilogy are primarily with the third movie, which inflated a short portion of the overall story to an obscene length, then failed to justify that padding by making it time well spent.

Some examples:

- Overly much is made of the dragon-sickness term, which is not definitively portrayed in the book as quite so literal a thing (i.e. something outside Thorin's own mind influencing him so much as a personal flaw he needed to overcome). As such, it's just a detour in his arc that fails to serve any characterization purposes while also providing no narrative purpose other than keeping everything gridlocked until all the pieces for an Armageddon-esque battle can assemble -- at which point the subplot resolves itself as suddenly as it began.

It could have at least been used to such an effect as his nephews breaking through to him to emphasize the bond between them, but it wasn't even utilized to that extent
---

- The Kili/Tauriel subplot was kind of sweet and thematically satisfying at first. Much like the "dragon-sickness" business, though, it just ends up feeling like it was there to eat up minutes and drag a third movie kicking and screaming into being long enough for there to be a third one. Once that was achieved, it couldn't even be bothered with earning a resolution rather than handwaving it.

Rather than appearing as though he has been the one to experience a revelation by what he has witnessed, Thranduil is just suddenly insightful about the validity of what Kili and Tauriel had/could have had
---

- Somewhat tying into the previous issue, the third movie gives Tauriel nothing to do. If she's going to be an original addition to the film series with a subplot created just for the movies, then it only makes sense to give her something to do that ultimately makes it her own subplot. And it almost manages to at least give her a moment that feels like it belongs to her when she seemingly kills herself and Bolg after watching Kili die -- but then the movie instantly ruins the moment by having them both survive and leaving Bolg to be killed in battle with Legolas for his obligatory impossibly cool acrobatic sequence.

Again, there was nothing inherently objectionable about the subplot involving Tauriel, but the way it's handled demonstrates one of the biggest failings of the trilogy: not knowing when enough is enough.

It also doesn't help that this non-inherently objectionable subplot had the inherently objectionable taint of a love triangle upon it. One that ultimately feels like it could only be said to have served Legolas and a mandate for a lengthy third movie

- If Tauriel's subplot had potential that went squandered, can even that much be said of Alfrid, another character original to the movies? How many chances does he get to make some sort of contribution -- any kind, of any plot or thematic significance -- while remaining a willfully irredeemable waste of screentime that isn't enjoyable in the slightest to watch while being the worst human scoundrel in the whole of the film series?
---

These prequels could have been managed in two good movies, as had originally been planned. I know it could have been accomplished as such, because -- as it stands -- we got one great movie, one pretty good, and one awful. With some much-needed condensing and finessing in the latter half of the second film, a third would have never been "necessary."

 

[chanteru]

In regard to FFVII, I worry because it's one game, with a complete story. Splitting it into chunks over the space of years and inserting a lot of extra material is a very tricky process -- if you're not careful, you can really mess with the pacing and the general quality of the narrative, and I don't think I'm alone when I say that the narrative is the strongest part of the original game. It's not even just the concept of splitting it into pieces, but the fact that the first piece is just Midgar. A lot depends on how much each part will cover, but at that pace it's worrying.

I'm also a little concerned with how the pacing will be over the course of the series, seeing as how the first game we will get only contains the events from Midgar.

I've been replaying the original game recently as a refresher for the story (it's been years, maybe a decade for me), and personally, the Midgar story arc doesn't seem quite long enough to stretch out into a "full-sized" game (apparently two-discs at that?) Although, since they need a point to pause the story and segway into a continuation, I suppose that when the gang leaves Midgar, this is a logical point to do this.

I mean, if they're going to add much more depth and dimension to the characters, the story line, dialogue, etc. - then I suppose they can make the first game feel "complete"... It's just a little disappointing to know that we won't get to see certain scenes take place for an undetermined amount of time. ^^;

 

[Kain424]

Indeed. As iconic as Midgar has become, most of my favorite moments come after. But you know what? I kind of feel like I've learned how to wait for this game over the past couple decades. So whatever.

 

[Jairus]

Indeed. As iconic as Midgar has become, most of my favorite moments come after. But you know what? I kind of feel like I've learned how to wait for this game over the past couple decades. So whatever.

I have the feeling that the remake will feature a lot of new memorable moments in Midgar that may yet become new fan favorites. It's going to be quite a ride, in any case.

 

[Kain424]

This is definitely gonna be a ride. And to be honest, I really am quite optimistic about it.

 

[pxp]

Since you asked, I do have an answer. I'll put it behind spoiler tags to reduce thread derailment.

Spoiler

I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about the additional material brought in from the Appendices and such. That is typically praised as one creative decision well considered.

The issues with the trilogy are primarily with the third movie, which inflated a short portion of the overall story to an obscene length, then failed to justify that padding by making it time well spent.

Some examples:

- Overly much is made of the dragon-sickness term, which is not definitively portrayed in the book as quite so literal a thing (i.e. something outside Thorin's own mind influencing him so much as a personal flaw he needed to overcome). As such, it's just a detour in his arc that fails to serve any characterization purposes while also providing no narrative purpose other than keeping everything gridlocked until all the pieces for an Armageddon-esque battle can assemble -- at which point the subplot resolves itself as suddenly as it began.

It could have at least been used to such an effect as his nephews breaking through to him to emphasize the bond between them, but it wasn't even utilized to that extent
---

- The Kili/Tauriel subplot was kind of sweet and thematically satisfying at first. Much like the "dragon-sickness" business, though, it just ends up feeling like it was there to eat up minutes and drag a third movie kicking and screaming into being long enough for there to be a third one. Once that was achieved, it couldn't even be bothered with earning a resolution rather than handwaving it.

Rather than appearing as though he has been the one to experience a revelation by what he has witnessed, Thranduil is just suddenly insightful about the validity of what Kili and Tauriel had/could have had
---

- Somewhat tying into the previous issue, the third movie gives Tauriel nothing to do. If she's going to be an original addition to the film series with a subplot created just for the movies, then it only makes sense to give her something to do that ultimately makes it her own subplot. And it almost manages to at least give her a moment that feels like it belongs to her when she seemingly kills herself and Bolg after watching Kili die -- but then the movie instantly ruins the moment by having them both survive and leaving Bolg to be killed in battle with Legolas for his obligatory impossibly cool acrobatic sequence.

Again, there was nothing inherently objectionable about the subplot involving Tauriel, but the way it's handled demonstrates one of the biggest failings of the trilogy: not knowing when enough is enough.

It also doesn't help that this non-inherently objectionable subplot had the inherently objectionable taint of a love triangle upon it. One that ultimately feels like it could only be said to have served Legolas and a mandate for a lengthy third movie

- If Tauriel's subplot had potential that went squandered, can even that much be said of Alfrid, another character original to the movies? How many chances does he get to make some sort of contribution -- any kind, of any plot or thematic significance -- while remaining a willfully irredeemable waste of screentime that isn't enjoyable in the slightest to watch while being the worst human scoundrel in the whole of the film series?
---

These prequels could have been managed in two good movies, as had originally been planned. I know it could have been accomplished as such, because -- as it stands -- we got one great movie, one pretty good, and one awful. With some much-needed condensing and finessing in the latter half of the second film, a third would have never been "necessary."

The best thing about those movies is that I got commissioned by Warner Bros to provide some artwork for the “making of” documentaries on two of the Blu-Ray/DVD releases ?

I should say best thing TO ME of course - man I hate those films.

 

[LNK]

The best thing about those movies is that I got commissioned by Warner Bros to provide some artwork for the “making of” documentaries on two of the Blu-Ray/DVD releases ?

I should say best thing TO ME of course - man I hate those films.

How were you able to do the artwork if you didn't like the movies? I have a tough time drawing or painting anything, if I don't enjoy the subject. Same with making music

 

[LNK]

I'm also a little concerned with how the pacing will be over the course of the series, seeing as how the first game we will get only contains the events from Midgar.

I've been replaying the original game recently as a refresher for the story (it's been years, maybe a decade for me), and personally, the Midgar story arc doesn't seem quite long enough to stretch out into a "full-sized" game (apparently two-discs at that?) Although, since they need a point to pause the story and segway into a continuation, I suppose that when the gang leaves Midgar, this is a logical point to do this.

I mean, if they're going to add much more depth and dimension to the characters, the story line, dialogue, etc. - then I suppose they can make the first game feel "complete"... It's just a little disappointing to know that we won't get to see certain scenes take place for an undetermined amount of time. ^^;

My guess is they won't take more than two years in between games

 

[Kain424]

Yeah, I'm thinking the last part will be out 2024. 2025 at the latest.

 

[ForceStealer]

I admire your optimism.

 

[pxp]

How were you able to do the artwork if you didn't like the movies? I have a tough time drawing or painting anything, if I don't enjoy the subject. Same with making music

I've been a Tolkien illustrator for years - of the books that is. That's why I was approached in the first place I guess, as I have a modest online following for that. So they asked me to paint some scenes from the Legendarium rather than from the (bad fanfic that the) movies (are).

 

[LNK]

I've been a Tolkien illustrator for years - of the books that is. That's why I was approached in the first place I guess, as I have a modest online following for that. So they asked me to paint some scenes from the Legendarium rather than from the (bad fanfic that the) movies (are).

mind giving your name, so I can see which stuff you've done?

 

[pxp]

Sure, I'll just link to the pieces. This one was painted in 2003 and used for TH:TDoS:

https://www.deviantart.com/peet/art/Beren-and-Luthien-1262936

While these four were painted specifically for TH:TBotFA in 2015:
https://www.deviantart.com/peet/art/Aule-Crafting-the-Dwarves-540057522
https://www.deviantart.com/peet/art/Gwindor-s-Charge-544955343
https://www.deviantart.com/peet/art/The-Request-of-Thingol-541861592
https://www.deviantart.com/art/Thingol-s-End-538750668

Edit: although sorry for derailing this thread @Jairus. I’ll stop here.

 

[Knuxson]

These prequels could have been managed in two good movies, as had originally been planned. I know it could have been accomplished as such, because -- as it stands -- we got one great movie, one pretty good, and one awful. With some much-needed condensing and finessing in the latter half of the second film, a third would have never been "necessary."

Not to keep this thread off topic, but, as a big LoTR fan, it's hard to resist. I totally agree with everything you said. I thought An Unexpected Journey was great. There was so much criticism of the movie when it came out about it having too much dwarves messing around, singing, etc. in Bilbo's house, but I loved all those scenes. It felt like the LoTR movies, where it slows things down at the right times so you can get to know the characters. That's why the LoTR movies were so successful, because they made you genuinely care about every member of the fellowship, and even side characters like Eomer, Eowyn, Theoden (Rohan is just awesome in general), Elrond, Galadriel, and Faramir. Coming into the first Hobbit movie, I was concerned that it wouldn't make me care about all these dwarves, but by the end I was totally on board with them trying to get their home back. The riddle game with Bilbo and Gollum was also so well done.

The second movie was still enjoyable, but you could definitely feel the padding beginning to show with all the Thranduil, Legolas, Turiel stuff, and some of the hijinks with the weasley guy in Laketown, which were not even funny really. I did like the stuff with the necromancer, though, even if isn't totally supported by the Hobbit book, because the White Council did confront the necromancer in the lore at Dol Guldur, and it is a nice tie in to LoTR.

Then the third movie was just a mess of action set pieces. I still cared about Bilbo and Thorin, but the stakes didn't feel all that real, and the CGI battle was nothing compared to battles in LoTR like Helm's Deep and the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. It's too bad because every year or two I do a re-watch of the LoTR movies, and I would love to include the Hobbit movies in that those re-watches. However, I just can't really justify spending the time watching them because it's so hard to get past all the little things (and some big) that they do wrong.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I think what is important to remember is that if they are adding as much as they seem to be adding to Midgar, they will probably be adding more story to the other areas of the game that come after Midgar. Which would be really, really cool.

Fort Condor, Mideal, Junon, Cosmo Canyon, Icicle Inn, Rocket Town, Banora, Nebilhem, Costa del Sol, Corel, the Gold Saucer... there's a ton of really cool loctations in this game that all have these little hints and teases about back-story and history the OG just didn't have the time or technology to explore more. But now we have it!

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Well, it could be cool. It also means this "one" game may take more than a decade from release of the first part to the last. =P Assuming it's ever finished.

I can't be the only one not convinced any of these developers -- but especially Nomura -- want to dedicate such a chunk of their career to essentially one project?

 

[LNK]

Well, it could be cool. It also means this "one" game may take more than a decade from release of the first part to the last. =P Assuming it's ever finished.

I can't be the only one not convinced any of these developers -- but especially Nomura -- want to dedicate such a chunk of their career to essentially one project?

After final fantasy 15, I can see them doing this with the remake. Especially since ff7 is one of the greatest games of all time. My guess is they really want to get this right

I just hope it doesn't take a full decade for every part to be released. If the games all end up being good, then I can deal with it taking that long though

 

[pxp]

Well, it could be cool. It also means this "one" game may take more than a decade from release of the first part to the last. =P Assuming it's ever finished.

I can't be the only one not convinced any of these developers -- but especially Nomura -- want to dedicate such a chunk of their career to essentially one project?

I get the feeling, and there’s been speculative evidence to support this over the last few years (though I’d be hard-pressed to remember specifics right now), that the old guard are putting their everything into this last project, so as to reboot the franchise and hand over the reigns of “Final Fantasy TM” to the next generation of devs.

On these grounds I could see them spending a very long time on getting 7R absolutely “perfect.”

Edit: that’s not to say they, and especially Nomura, won’t go on to do other things. But I think their involvement with FF TM might be over after all parts are complete.