Padding in the remake? (split from Remake Interviews: Catch-all Thread)

[GuardBreak]

It's interesting how past experiences influence what people take a way from comments.

I see "the overarching story follows the original" and see... 95% of all Time-Travel Fan-Fics in there. Particularly the trope The Stations of Canon. Which is... essentially the idea that even with changes to the source material happening, the vast bulk of the story events do happen in some size, shape or form. The story *has* to have certain events happen so that it can be recognized as that story. Of course... how the events *happen* can end up wildly different. But it's still following the overarching story of the derivative work.

It's honestly really funny looking at the FFVII Fan-Fic "Stations of Canon" entry, because the Midgar Section of it sounds so much like what we got in Remake.Like... that's the story of... 90% of rewrites of FFVII. Time-Travel, Zack Survies, Cloud doesn't loose his memory, Vincent wakes up early, Cloud gets into SOLDIER, the list goes on... Most of them will hit all the main story beats of FFVII and tweak the events a tad, but the events still happen (you should see how many variants of Nibelheim Incident people can come up with in CC era fics!).

What *does* change is the tone and theme of the work a lot of the time. Sure, the *events* are still happening, but the story does end up feeling different if Zack is around, or Cloud gets his head in order early or half a dozen other things. Or you know... when we've killed Fate and have an Unknown Journey ahead of us...

I've just seen so many ways of still having canon events happen for very different reasons by this point that... the overall events of FFVII kinda... I wouldn't say they've lost their meaning. But they're definetly more like set-pieces. The event itseslf isn't the important thing I pay attention to. It's all the ways that event is different than how it happened in canon that I notice. That's what most fan-fics want to show off: how a few changes can snowball across all the evens we're familiar with.

I stopped taking Square Enix PR seriously. I like Nomura, but this is the same guy who thought that part 1's content is so big that told he the team to cut content.

 

[Kain424]

I stopped taking Square Enix PR seriously. I like Nomura, but this is the same guy who thought that part 1's content is so big that told he the team to cut content.

He was right. And people STILL complained of padding.

 

[GuardBreak]

He was right. And people STILL complained of padding.

People complained about padding because what little is there is extremely stretched to justify this as a full fledged FF. The complaints about padding goes against what Nomura said and not the other way around.

What type of content distinguishes FFVIIR-1 from the Midgar section in the Original other than things like adding a featureless factory and a quest to find cats in Sector 7 ?

 

[Makoeyes987]

What type of content distinguishes FFVIIR-1 from the Midgar section in the Original other than things like adding a featureless factory and a quest to find cats in Sector 7 ?

lol sure chief. Yeah, I believe you missed your exit ramp for Gamefaqs.

I mean. Of course, we simply got a 30 minute game stretched out over 20 hours. How in the world did it last so long?

Padding. Like a newborn's diaper. That's exactly what it was.

 

[KindOfBlue]

People complained about padding because what little is there is extremely stretched to justify this as a full fledged FF. The complaints about padding goes against what Nomura said and not the other way around.

What type of content distinguishes FFVIIR-1 from the Midgar section in the Original other than things like adding a featureless factory and a quest to find cats in Sector 7 ?

Not that there isn’t padding just for filler like with reactor 5, the two sewer sections, the graveyard, and the drum, but there’s also a whole chapter hanging out with Tifa, another chapter hanging out with Avalanche and meeting Roche, another chapter with Aerith, an expanded Wall Market, finding Deepground, an expanded Shinra infiltration including the Jenova fight, and the whole last chapter to name a few tiny little distinctions, nothing too major

 

[Makoeyes987]

What are you talking about? It's all padding.

Why in the world would you re-write a script to take advantage of voice acting, facial expressions, greater gamedev scope, and flesh out characters to give them more development and agency beyond what was conveyed in 1997? All that with Barret? Tifa? AVALANCHE? Rebuilding Midgar from the ground up with actual architectural inspiration? That's padding, bro.

 

[Ite]

I mean I thought it was a bloated mess and criticisms about pacing and padding are legit, but what the hell I’ll get in on this:

Heist chapter that develops the Avalanche members? That’s a paddin’

Wall Market political machinations with a mafia-like structure where you choose loyalties with different quest chains? That’s a paddin’

Optional coliseum and sim battles with unique prizes for completing trials? That’s a paddin’

 

[GuardBreak]

lol sure chief. Yeah, I believe you missed your exit ramp for Gamefaqs.

I mean. Of course, we simply got a 30 minute game stretched out over 20 hours. How in the world did it last so long?

Padding. Like a newborn's diaper. That's exactly what it was.

Do you seriously think that padding is a criticism only made by GFAQs users ?
I'm not sure why you're upset in the first place. I wasn't the one who brought up the whole padding thing.

Not that there isn’t padding just for filler like with reactor 5, the two sewer sections, the graveyard, and the drum

You realize this accounts for 7 chapters out of 18 or roughly 40% of the game ? You're basically agreeing with what I'm saying.
I didn't say the entire game was padding even if I personally find a lot of it to be superfluous. Just that there's lots of it. Is FF7R's content so dense and substantial compared to other games that it justifies Nomura telling the team to cut content ? My answer's no.

but there’s also a whole chapter hanging out with Tifa,

That's a small portion of the original game dragged with odd jobs and mandatory busywork such as replacing water filters.

One of the reasons Final Fantasy VII is great is that it has barely, if any, the same type of fluff that FF7R has in its main quest.

another chapter with Aerith

Again, that's just escorting Aerith padded with copious amounts of slow-walk segments where every NPC stops you to tell how much they love Aerith, waiting outside, picking flowers?, and another patch of momentum breaking odd jobs for a hub that you can only revisit once.

finding Deepground

A hallway dungeon that foreshadows deepground and reveals Wedge is alive

an expanded Shinra infiltration including the Jenova fight,

Other than the Drum, they replaced the first half of the original sequence with a tour consisting of forced cutscenes that tells us nothing we don't already know. I wouldn't say it's additional content.

What are you talking about? It's all padding.

Why in the world would you re-write a script to take advantage of voice acting, facial expressions, greater gamedev scope, and flesh out characters to give them more development and agency beyond what was conveyed in 1997? All that with Barret? Tifa? AVALANCHE? Rebuilding Midgar from the ground up with actual architectural inspiration? That's padding, bro.

A modern AAA game with an expensive budget has voice acting and 3d environments ? Holy Shit !

 

[KindOfBlue]

You realize this accounts for 7 chapters out of 18 or roughly 40% of the game ? You're basically agreeing with what I'm saying.

The second sewer segment and drum segments were only part of their respective chapters and not every chapter is of equal length anyways, so I wouldn’t be so keen to throw out numbers here

Is FF7R's content so dense and substantial compared to other games that it justifies Nomura telling the team to cut content ? My answer's no.

And the devs answer was yes? Don’t see the point of comparing this to other games, shoot, I can finish other games in less than 10 hours. If you want more of the OG story, you’re going to get more of the fluff that comes with it too. So do you want more padding or less?

One of the reasons Final Fantasy VII is great is that it has barely, if any, the same type of fluff that FF7R has in its main quest.

Even if you skipped all of the side stuff in the OG, this would definitely not be true especially post-Midgar disc 1 and a large chunk of disc 2. In fact, I can’t think of any game longer than 10 hours that doesn’t have some kind of fluff, let alone the OG.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

hat's a small portion of the original game dragged with odd jobs and mandatory busywork such as replacing water filters.

One of the reasons Final Fantasy VII is great is that it has barely, if any, the same type of fluff that FF7R has in its main quest.

The entire... last 1/3 (if not more) of the OG is almost nothing but padding. Looking at the story told once everyone wakes up in Junon after Northern Crater is... really straight forward and very bare-bones.

Unless you decide to... breed chocobos, find all the materia, take out all the WEAPONs, get all the Master Materia, etc. Then the last 1/3 of the OG is actually *long*. And is filled with things that have nothing to do with the MSQ. But they're fun for some people...

 

[FFShinra]

I did not beat FF7 for years because I preferred the Return to Midgar confronting Shinra over saving the world from Sephiroth.

I look forward to seeing THAT get expanded to hell and back into some glorious urban warfare epic.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Do you seriously think that padding is a criticism only made by GFAQs users ?
I'm not sure why you're upset in the first place. I wasn't the one who brought up the whole padding thing.

Not upset, just taken aback by the reductionist absurdity. That's the low-quality type argument common to that forum. Spoiler alert, its not padding. Content or parts of the game you don't like or think is unimportant are not padding.

You realize this accounts for 7 chapters out of 18 or roughly 40% of the game ? You're basically agreeing with what I'm saying.
I didn't say the entire game was padding even if I personally find a lot of it to be superfluous. Just that there's lots of it. Is FF7R's content so dense and substantial compared to other games that it justifies Nomura telling the team to cut content ? My answer's no.

Yeah, you find a lot of it superfluous. Cool. I'm not even sure what parts you think are so important to not be labeled as padding. Your priorities clearly run counter to any sort of experience beyond what was presented in the original. Regardless of Nomura's point towards cut content, the game is full length with a firmly established beginning, middle, and end. Its actual substance allows it to be a whole game that slices the Midgar part of the OG out of the story to make it its own established arc. An arc that fleshes out the setting, its characters, and the story, to a point well beyond what anyone could imagine in 1997.

That's a small portion of the original game dragged with odd jobs and mandatory busywork such as replacing water filters.

One of the reasons Final Fantasy VII is great is that it has barely, if any, the same type of fluff that FF7R has in its main quest.

You spend less than 3 minutes doing the filters. And you can easily choose to skip the odd jobs if you are so bothered actually spending time seeing the setting and inhabitants that the original game glosses over as you proceed through the plot. But that's what a significant majority of fans and players wanted to see and experience, so sorry you wanted to just rush out of Midgar. That's never what the game was going to be. And just because it was, doesn't make it filler/padding. The reason FFVII is great isn't because it has no "fluff" because it certainly does; it introduced a significant number of sidequests and mini-games that have become mainstays in Final Fantasy. It's just apparently fluff that you like.

Getting to actually know Tifa, Barret, AVALANCHE, you know... The significant main and side characters who impact the whole story of FFVII is not filler. What has made FFVII so memorable are its character writing and overall setting, and the Remake actually expanding and utilizing the medium of a full game to maximum effect isn't the game trying to pad. It's utilizing the canvas its been given. Barret being given dimension beyond his 97 portrayal, and Tifa being more than just a love interest tag-along is what most people consider a good thing.

Again, that's just escorting Aerith padded with copious amounts of slow-walk segments where every NPC stops you to tell how much they love Aerith, waiting outside, picking flowers?, and another patch of momentum breaking odd jobs for a hub that you can only revisit once.

Because it wasn't padding falling in Sector 5, meeting her, walking her home, and just leaving, right?

I can only imagine what possible reason you want to play this RPG at all, because apparently you just don't want to be there. What's the point of Midgar as a location with its settings that differentiate themselves between sectors, new glimpses of the local populations and how the characters live there as people, and utilizing modern technology in game design? What's the point of the Midgar narrative if you just think its NPCs and characters chit chatting and wasting time in a narratively driven roleplaying game that's meant to immerse you in their world? Why are you even playing then?

If you can't even find purpose or pleasure in actually seeing Aerith be a three-dimensional human who's depicted as having a life beyond the upcoming narrative and being the pink-Jesus Cetra of myth, then maybe this isn't for you. People like seeing characters be more than the storyline tropes and roles they exist to fulfill. Aerith having a life, sassy sense of humor, and her riffing off Cloud's stoic and wannabe badass exterior is amusing. The NPCs even poke fun of it. Sorry you can't see its intended purpose and its just filler to you.

A hallway dungeon that foreshadows deepground and reveals Wedge is alive

Wow, a new storyline segment that wasn't in the OG which expands the setting of Midgar and includes material from the overarching FFVII series?? In an expanded Remake? What a complete shock. And yeah, Wedge being alive certainly seems like more than padding

Other than the Drum, they replaced the first half of the original sequence with a tour consisting of forced cutscenes that tells us nothing we don't already know. I wouldn't say it's additional content.

It wasn't replaced, it was expanded and recontextualized to give the Shinra Building infiltration greater weight regarding the overall conflict between AVALANCHE and Shinra. They even included the choice between using the elevators and stairs, so what are you talking about? The "tour" outlining the past of Shinra, its executives, revelation of the Ancients and their usage of Lifestream energy that pivots to Shinra's goal of Neo-Midgar, is apparently so unimportant and superfluous that it's apparently not "content?" Again, why are you playing this then? It's certainly additional content, unless you don't want to be there. Nevermind the new scenes with Shinra executives, Turks, Rufus, etc etc etc...

A modern AAA game with an expensive budget has voice acting and 3d environments ? Holy Shit !

I KNOW HOLY SHIT, right?! lolololol!!!1



Yeah, cause all AAA games utilize those resources and capabilities to maximum effect in terms of visual storytelling. Especially RPGs! Of course.

That's so laughably ridiculous and disingenuous I don't even know what to say. You think the design of Midgar and its environments just was a natural expectancy? All 3D environments are impressive with a big budget, huh? Ok.

 

[Wol]

Maybe if the sidequests were good and dungeons weren't unnecessarily long people wouldn't complain about padding. Time only drags when you're not having fun.

 

[Theozilla]

Okay, I think the Remake Interview thread is getting kinda off topic.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Maybe if the sidequests were good and dungeons weren't unnecessarily long people wouldn't complain about padding. Time only drags when you're not having fun.

That's a totally different criticism though.

I found the Gold Saucer events to be somewhat tedious along with navigating Great Glacier. The Cave of the Gi isn't a dungeon I fondly remember either.

But that doesn't make it all padding. Those are parts of the story, not some filler episodes that mean nothing to the overall narrative and just kill time. Just because it's imperfect to some certainly doesn't mean it's filler or padding.

And given the highly subjective nature of sidequests and what people are willing and wanting to do or not do, one person's meaningless fetch quest or dungeon crawl is another person's lore dump and exploration of the setting.

 

[Wol]

That's a totally different criticism though.

I found the Gold Saucer events to be somewhat tedious along with navigating Great Glacier. The Cave of the Gi isn't a dungeon I fondly remember either.

But that doesn't make it all padding. Those are parts of the story, not some filler episodes that mean nothing to the overall narrative and just kill time. Just because it's imperfect to some certainly doesn't mean it's filler or padding.

And given the highly subjective nature of sidequests and what people are willing and wanting to do or not do, one person's meaningless fetch quest or dungeon crawl is another person's lore dump and exploration of the setting.

I consider it filler when certain parts are artificially longer or weaker than they need to be, a lot of dungeons are like that + copypaste, and a lot of bosses were transformed into a big multi-stage fight too. The sidequests don't have much story significance if any, they're just there to fill a hole with content, but not in a meaningful way.

While you may have disliked Cave of Gi, did it take longer to clear that dungeon than let's say FFVIIRs train graveyard? That would be an interesting comparison to make.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I consider it filler when certain parts are artificially longer or weaker than they need to be, a lot of dungeons are like that, and a lot of bosses were transformed into a big multi-stage fight too. The sidequests don't have much story significance if any, they're just there to fill a hole with content, but not in a meaningful way.

I think that's more an issue of pacing and quality, than being outright filler. It's intrinsic to it's design. A narratively significant portion of the game can be drawn out or poorly paced in terms of gameplay or story, but be vital to it.

And I wouldn't say 40% of the game is that. Filler implies no significance, like an anime-only filler arc that has nothing achieved or developed that will ever be utilized or referenced again.

Sidequests are by definition optional and you can skip them. However, they either expand or develop characters in a meaningful way or they offer insight into the setting or story. If an RPG is distilled only to it's core narrative parts, it's hollow. The OG has a ton of areas that could be seen as filler but actually aren't because they either show the development of the characters' relationships between each other or they showcase some important part of the narrative that is featured later in the story. And of course the game has to be a game at some point.

 

[Odysseus]

Do I smell a spinoff thread?

 

[KindOfBlue]

I consider it filler when certain parts are artificially longer or weaker than they need to be, a lot of dungeons are like that + copypaste, and a lot of bosses were transformed into a big multi-stage fight too. The sidequests don't have much story significance if any, they're just there to fill a hole with content, but not in a meaningful way.

While you may have disliked Cave of Gi, did it take longer to clear that dungeon than let's say FFVIIRs train graveyard? That would be an interesting comparison to make.

Aren’t those things just part of the genre though? Seems par for the course for this type of game

 

[Wol]

Aren’t those things just part of the genre though? Seems par for the course for this type of game

Not necessarily, if it's longer because of relevant or fun content is not the same than being longer because of repetitive or sub-par content. All games have a bit of both in the end, but in different quantities. FFVIIR had enough to garner criticism.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Not necessarily, if it's longer because of relevant or fun content is not the same than being longer because of repetitive or sub-par content. All games have a bit of both in the end, but in different quantities. FFVIIR had enough to garner criticism.

RPGs are a lot more grindy and repetitive than say action-adventure games for example so it didn’t strike me as anything unusual given the context of this game, still could’ve done without some of the padding but I thought the combat was fun enough to make up for it

 

[GuardBreak]

There are people who feel personally insulted when you criticize this game to the point where they'll accuse you of being a gamefaqs troll, the site where FFVIIR won GOTY, and then throw a childish tantrum while ironically posting a clown meme.

This is going to be my last post regarding this remake

Not upset, just taken aback by the reductionist absurdity. That's the low-quality type argument common to that forum. Spoiler alert, its not padding. Content or parts of the game you don't like or think is unimportant are not padding.

Padding is legit criticism regardless if you agree with it or not, and yes, content that is unimportant or stretched too long for little value in terms of what it adds to the gameplay or story is padding

whether you find FF7R's hallway dungeon made out of one or two screens from the original and 3 side quest hubs that you can't even backtrack to except once when the game demands it ( LOL fleshing out Midgar) to be quality content depends on your take.

Yeah, you find a lot of it superfluous. Cool. I'm not even sure what parts you think are so important to not be labeled as padding. Your priorities clearly run counter to any sort of experience beyond what was presented in the original. Regardless of Nomura's point towards cut content, the game is full length with a firmly established beginning, middle, and end. Its actual substance allows it to be a whole game that slices the Midgar part of the OG out of the story to make it its own established arc. An arc that fleshes out the setting, its characters, and the story, to a point well beyond what anyone could imagine in 1997.

It being superfluous is my opinion. I'm not forcing anyone to agree with me. the original Midgar section has a beginning, middle, and end, so is FFXV which was considered by many to be incomplete on release. If they actually showed us more of the city such as exploring sectors that we didn't go into in the original game and giving at least some form of free roaming than maybe I would see this being stretched into full game. Instead every random battle screen is bloated into tedious hallway with shallow gimmicks that amount to: Hold square to let barret shoot the rubble to move forward in a straight line, and story beats taking 3x the length they originally took for no fucking reason

You can't even choose your party members in this full fledged mainline FF. If that's not a sign of padding, than I don't know what else is.

You spend less than 3 minutes doing the filters. And you can easily choose to skip the odd jobs if you are so bothered actually spending time seeing the setting and inhabitants that the original game glosses over as you proceed through the plot. But that's what a significant majority of fans and players wanted to see and experience, so sorry you wanted to just rush out of Midgar. That's never what the game was going to be. And just because it was, doesn't make it filler/padding. The reason FFVII is great isn't because it has no "fluff" because it certainly does; it introduced a significant number of sidequests and mini-games that have become mainstays in Final Fantasy. It's just apparently fluff that you like.

Getting to actually know Tifa, Barret, AVALANCHE, you know... The significant main and side characters who impact the whole story of FFVII is not filler. What has made FFVII so memorable are its character writing and overall setting, and the Remake actually expanding and utilizing the medium of a full game to maximum effect isn't the game trying to pad. It's utilizing the canvas its been given. Barret being given dimension beyond his 97 portrayal, and Tifa being more than just a love interest tag-along is what most people consider a good thing.

The entire replace water filters and build connection thing is an excuse to let us do busywork to increase playtime. and that chapter definitely didn't last for 3 minutes. When your optional content consists of doing uninspired odd jobs and bunch of VR battle disjointed from the game's world, then the game is certainly lacking and it just boils down bloat. Once again I would give a shit if NPCs were distinct design-wise or personality-wise, if fleshing out Midgar didn't end being finding bunch of children messing around from kindergarten in what is supposed to be a bleak place, and If they actually gave some form of backtracking instead of restarting chapters if you didn't do an odd job right away. This isn't even taking my own personal grievance into account because their recreation of Midgar didn't reflect the tone and aesthetic of the OG at all, even the NPC aesthetic is different.

Because it wasn't padding falling in Sector 5, meeting her, walking her home, and just leaving, right?

I can only imagine what possible reason you want to play this RPG at all, because apparently you just don't want to be there. What's the point of Midgar as a location with its settings that differentiate themselves between sectors, new glimpses of the local populations and how the characters live there as people, and utilizing modern technology in game design? What's the point of the Midgar narrative if you just think its NPCs and characters chit chatting and wasting time in a narratively driven roleplaying game that's meant to immerse you in their world? Why are you even playing then?

If you can't even find purpose or pleasure in actually seeing Aerith be a three-dimensional human who's depicted as having a life beyond the upcoming narrative and being the pink-Jesus Cetra of myth, then maybe this isn't for you. People like seeing characters be more than the storyline tropes and roles they exist to fulfill. Aerith having a life, sassy sense of humor, and her riffing off Cloud's stoic and wannabe badass exterior is amusing. The NPCs even poke fun of it. Sorry you can't see its intended purpose and its just filler to you.

No I don't think it's padding that we met an important party member and were introduced to the turks in the original. escorting her, meeting her mother, and running away from her house took much less than chapter 8 and yet nothing of any value was added in FF7R's significantly increased runtime. Why is the way to wall market alone is taking 40 minutes while repeating the same mini game/ pseudo-puzzle 4 fucking times just for Cloud to FINALLY high-five Aerith ? This is the same guy who flirted back at her in the prison scene in the same room Tifa is in.

Yes I don't want to be in Remake's version of Midgar because I don't find it compelling. I also disagree about characters being significantly more fleshed out. I can't help but get the feeling they're gonna mess with their stories. Red XIII signing up for saving the planet rather than initially planning to follow until Cosmo Canyon already seems like a warning sign to me.

Wow, a new storyline segment that wasn't in the OG which expands the setting of Midgar and includes material from the overarching FFVII series?? In an expanded Remake? What a complete shock. And yeah, Wedge being alive certainly seems like more than padding

Do you think doing a long dungeon is necessary to foreshadow deepground ? And yeah, I'll give you that, Wedge being alive is a plot change for the worse rather than padding.

It wasn't replaced, it was expanded and recontextualized to give the Shinra Building infiltration greater weight regarding the overall conflict between AVALANCHE and Shinra. They even included the choice between using the elevators and stairs, so what are you talking about? The "tour" outlining the past of Shinra, its executives, revelation of the Ancients and their usage of Lifestream energy that pivots to Shinra's goal of Neo-Midgar, is apparently so unimportant and superfluous that it's apparently not "content?" Again, why are you playing this then? It's certainly additional content, unless you don't want to be there. Nevermind the new scenes with Shinra executives, Turks, Rufus, etc etc etc...

The only part they kept is stairs/elevator. The rest of the original section is completely replaced with the tour until you fight Hojo's specimen. What did the tour tell you about Shinra that wasn't already said in the PS1 version ? Neo Midgar being built on the promised land is a thing stated by the president himself in the original. What else? I guess Scarlet is a dominatrix and X-2 is connected to the planet which is pretty fucking stupid.

And the devs answer was yes? Don’t see the point of comparing this to other games, shoot, I can finish other games in less than 10 hours. If you want more of the OG story, you’re going to get more of the fluff that comes with it too. So do you want more padding or less?

Then let's agree to disagree in this case. I didn't find FF7R content substantial to justify this as proper FF game. So I don't put too much value their statements. That and the fact that they said side quest will focus on quality rather quantity.

The second sewer segment and drum segments were only part of their respective chapters and not every chapter is of equal length anyways, so I wouldn’t be so keen to throw out numbers here


And the devs answer was yes? Don’t see the point of comparing this to other games, shoot, I can finish other games in less than 10 hours. If you want more of the OG story, you’re going to get more of the fluff that comes with it too. So do you want more padding or less?


Even if you skipped all of the side stuff in the OG, this would definitely not be true especially post-Midgar disc 1 and a large chunk of disc 2. In fact, I can’t think of any game longer than 10 hours that doesn’t have some kind of fluff, let alone the OG.

Yeah, I don't agree at all. In terms of the original's main quest, almost every story beat/quest serve a main purpose :

1- Exposing the way Shinra holding monopoly over the world's energy affects locations in the setting and how it changed people's way of live ( almost every town in the game)

2- crucial for a party member's development and addressing their baggage (Corel/Cosmo Canyon)

3- Advances the Plot ( Temple of the Ancient )

The story beats taken from the original in the remake takes far more time than what the original portrayed in a more brisk pacing. One thing I find Impressive about it is how much of it is optional and how little meandering in the same location is mandatory. you can head directly into Mt. Nibel and Ignore shinra mansion entirely if you want to. you can completely walk out of Costa del sol after watching a cutscene, but if you decide to stay there's and optional scene with Hojo that gives Important foreshadowing, and a lot of cool party interactions. you can also buy your house. If anything Midgar is the portion of the game that is more cutscene heavy and railroaded

The dungeon were also less, much shorter, and had unique aspects that make them standout. there's a reason people are joking about turning the mythril mines into 3 long chapter because that's what they did with the second bombing mission.

The entire... last 1/3 (if not more) of the OG is almost nothing but padding. Looking at the story told once everyone wakes up in Junon after Northern Crater is... really straight forward and very bare-bones.

Unless you decide to... breed chocobos, find all the materia, take out all the WEAPONs, get all the Master Materia, etc. Then the last 1/3 of the OG is actually *long*. And is filled with things that have nothing to do with the MSQ. But they're fun for some people...

I'm taking about the main storyline not optional content. FF7R is actually lacking in that department too.

funnily enough, the huge materia missions were much shorter and also more unique. one of them gives you access to explore underwater in the worldmap.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Padding is legit criticism regardless if you agree with it or not, and yes, content that is unimportant or stretched too long for little value in terms of what it adds to the gameplay or story is padding

....

the original Midgar section has a beginning, middle, and end, so is FFXV which was considered by many to be incomplete on release. If they actually showed us more of the city such as exploring sectors that we didn't go into in the original game and giving at least some form of free roaming than maybe I would see this being stretched into full game.

I'm zeroing in on this because it's what makes absolutely no sense.

You're going to criticize the Remake for padding via adding content that is "unimportant or stretched too long for little value in terms of what it adds to the gameplay or story", but you think it should have added exploring the other sectors of the city of Midgar that weren't originally covered in the OG and just let Cloud and the others free roam the entire city during the beginning of what is FFVII's story?

So you wanted an open-world game ala Cyberpunk 2077? How is exploring a more detailed and enlarged setting of Midgar, based on the original game's setting and narrative progression unimportant padding, but adding whole new parts to the game that make no sense given the story, and shoehorning an open-world element that flies in the face of the linear progression of the plot, legitimate content that's worthy of being a "full game?"

What's the difference in exploring a vastly expanded Sector 7 and Sector 5 which are part of FFVII's story, versus visiting Sector 3 where nothing in the plot happens and you'd be doing the same gameplay exploration or sidequests ala a JRPG? How is expansion that's part of the actual plot simply padding, but exploration of a superfluous and unused section of the city legitimate content? Really would love to hear how that works.

The entire replace water filters and build connection thing is an excuse to let us do busywork to increase playtime. and that chapter definitely didn't last for 3 minutes. When your optional content consists of doing uninspired odd jobs and bunch of VR battle disjointed from the game's world, then the game is certainly lacking and it just boils down bloat. Once again I would give a shit if NPCs were distinct design-wise or personality-wise, if fleshing out Midgar didn't end being finding bunch of children messing around from kindergarten in what is supposed to be a bleak place, and If they actually gave some form of backtracking instead of restarting chapters if you didn't do an odd job right away. This isn't even taking my own personal grievance into account because their recreation of Midgar didn't reflect the tone and aesthetic of the OG at all, even the NPC aesthetic is different.

So this setting expansion is bad in the Remake, but Cloud and the others randomly sodding off to Sector 4 to do god-knows-what during whenever-the-hell (because it makes no sense to wander the entire Midgar city while Shinra is searching and dropping plates in attempts to kill AVALANCHE) is legitimate content? That type of gameplay design and storyline re-purposing fits the aesthetic and story of the OG? Ok.

What did the tour tell you about Shinra that wasn't already said in the PS1 version ? Neo Midgar being built on the promised land is a thing stated by the president himself in the original. What else? I guess Scarlet is a dominatrix and X-2 is connected to the planet which is pretty fucking stupid.

LOL and what would Cloud visiting random sectors not part of the story tell us? What makes that viable and legitimate expansion compared to expanding actual locations visited in the OG that were part of the story?

 

[Wol]

Thread became padded.

 

[Roundhouse]

Padded?? It's like Mortal Kombat in here, more like.