President Shinra's name is President?

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espritduo

Zetta Member
#1
Okay, I think this is pretty stupid, but I might be wrong. I noticed on the wiki there's a blurb added about a year ago that states President Shinra's first name is actually the word President, and that the Japanese version somehow supports this wacky notion. The person who claimed this used this thread as their source, and after reading it, I don't see any reason at all for this assumption. It sounds like whoever was doing the re-translation simply assumed his name must be President because Rufus doesn't refer to himself as President when he takes over. That sounds like an extremely weak basis for saying something stupid like President, which would sound just as stupid to a Japanese player who likely knows that English word, is the guy's first name. So, I thought I'd ask you guys, since you're both familiar with FFVII and familiar with the Japanese side of things. Is there any weight to this?
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
#2
I'm no expert but it doesn't sound legit to me, I fail to see why Rufus not referring to himself as President would have any bearing. Plus I'm fairly sure numerous times other characters refer to him as the President.

Also I dont remember pres shinra referring to himself as President or even THE president either.

It is odd that even in all the compliation including the novels hes never given a first name Iirc

Edit:oh wait this is DLPBs doing. That explains a lot :monster:

Double edit: I mean if it is a pun it would only work if the japanese for president had a double meaning, for example sounding/written similar to a given name. I have no idea if that is the case.
 
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espritduo

Zetta Member
#3
Is DLPB notorious?

Also, the Japanese wiki sounds like they don't know if its his name or his title, either.

If they don't know, chances are the Japanese version isn't making anything any clearer than the English version does.
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
#5
Yeah hes a little notorious, hes left these forums a few times before because we're all ignorant ignorami and he is far superior or words to that effect :lol:

I don't think hes a bad guy, but he doesn't like anyone disagreeing with him.
 

jazzflower92

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Girl With A Strong Opinion
#6
I'd liked to think that his first name is Rufus too because well why not.:P

And until Square gives us his first name I will just have that as my headcannon.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#7
I looked into this, and it's true that Rufus's father is the only one of the two ever referred to with the English word "president" written in katakana (プレジデント).

That being said, as the English word is well-known in Japan, it's entirely possible that Rufus simply preferred using a different title in reference to himself (in this case, 社長 -- Japanese word for "president of a company") as a reflection of his intention to distance himself and his policies from his father. Which was something Rufus brought up in his introduction scene.

For the record, old man Shin-Ra is only ever referred to with the English word, never Rufus's preferred title. So I think it's just a title rather than a name, despite Japanese media often being guilty of lame puns like that.
 
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#8
That being said, as the English word is well-known in Japan, it's entirely possible that Rufus simply preferred using a different title in reference to himself (in this case, 社長 -- Japanese word for "president of a company") as a reflection of his intention to distance himself and his policies from his father. Which was something Rufus brought up in his introduction scene
To add to this, I think his insistence on being referred to/marketed (i.e. Junon banners) by his first name as a further assertion of individuality discredits the possibility of his father having the same name.
 
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Lex

Administrator
#9
Oh dear, I see the retranslation project is already leaking into the realm of discussion. God save us all.

Whoever it is that handles the Wiki should change it until further proof can be provided. I recall being told his name was President at one point too.

EDIT: Here's the quote from the Qhimm thread:

DLPB said:
Today I have taken a liberty with the story. Don't like doing it at all but I see no way to get around this. The original trans team did the same.
[03:08] <DLPB> turns out president shinra is called "President" it is not a title
[03:09] <Covarr> lol
[03:09] <DLPB> he is called President. hahaha. Rufus refers to himself as "head of shin-ra company" he is never referred to as a president.... The japanese seem to have made a pun on president, making shinra called president
[03:10] <DLPB> but f*ck that
[03:10] <DLPB> no western audience would get it
 
#10
I was planning on removing it, but I figured hey! Stranger things have happened. You got characters named Cloud and Squall and Lightning and Butts. Thanks for the insights.
 
#12
Eh, then we'll schlock-block him and prevent him from editing if he wants to make a federal case of it. It's been a year since that edit, so maybe he's moved on to greener pastures....
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
#16
I think you're choices of how you view it are:

- it is his proper name that sounds silly in English
- Shinra Sr. is referred to as &#12503;&#12524;&#12472;&#12487;&#12531;&#12488; (purejidento) and Rufus as &#31038;&#38263; (shachou) as a means of distinguishing them during the dialogue so you know which Shinra is being mentioned

Although even the Japanese fans on the wiki aren't sure about it, I would go more for the latter for the following reasons:

- President Shinra is never referred to as &#31038;&#38263;
He is only ever called &#12503;&#12524;&#12472;&#12487;&#12531;&#12488; in game, and never given the respectful title &#31038;&#38263;*. That no one would use that to refer to him but instead just use his first name seems strange given his powerful position in the world. (Other external books have used &#31038;&#38263; when talking about him.)

- Characters use &#12503;&#12524;&#12472;&#12487;&#12531;&#12488; alone
Were &#12503;&#12524;&#12472;&#12487;&#12531;&#12488; his first name, this line of dialogue would be kind of rude coming from Reeve:

&#12522;&#12540;&#12502;
&#12300;&#12503;&#12524;&#12472;&#12487;&#12531;&#12488;&#65281; &#26412;&#24403;&#12395;&#12420;&#12427;&#12398;&#12391;&#12377;&#12363;&#65311; &#12383;&#12363;&#12364;&#25968;&#20154;&#12398;&#32068;&#32340;&#12434;&#12388;&#12406;&#12377;&#12398;&#12395;&#8230;&#8230;&#12301; (Reeve: President! Are you really going to do it? Just to destroy a group with few members...)

Compare this with later scenes when Rufus is in charge, the senior staff don't refer to him using his first name alone:

&#12495;&#12452;&#12487;&#12483;&#12459;&#12540;
&#12300;&#12523;&#12540;&#12501;&#12449;&#12454;&#12473;&#31038;&#38263;&#12398;&#12372;&#22909;&#24847;&#12384;&#65281; &#12365;&#12418;&#12395;&#21629;&#12376;&#12392;&#12369;&#65281;&#12301; (Heidegger: Courtesy of Rufus-shachou! Don't forget about this!)

&#12473;&#12459;&#12540;&#12524;&#12483;&#12488;
&#12300;&#31038;&#38263;&#8230;&#8230;&#12394;&#12435;&#12384;&#12363;&#12452;&#12516;&#65374;&#12394;&#20104;&#24863;&#12364;&#12377;&#12427;&#12431;&#12301; (Scarlett: Shachou... I have a bad feeling about this)

&#12495;&#12452;&#12487;&#12483;&#12459;&#12540;
&#12300;&#31038;&#38263;&#65281; &#20966;&#21009;&#12398;&#28310;&#20633;&#12364;&#12392;&#12392;&#12398;&#12356;&#12414;&#12375;&#12383;&#12301; (Heidegger: Shachou! Preparations for the execution are finished)

&#12495;&#12452;&#12487;&#12483;&#12459;&#12540;&#12288;&#12300;&#12431;&#12363;&#12425;&#12397;&#12360;&#12290;&#31038;&#38263;&#12392;&#36899;&#32097;&#12364;&#12392;&#12428;&#12394;&#12356;&#65281;&#12301; (Heidegger: We don't know. We can't contact the shachou)
&#12522;&#12540;&#12502;&#12288;&#12300;&#31038;&#38263;&#12420;&#12394;&#12356;&#65281; &#12471;&#12473;&#12479;&#12540;&#12539;&#12524;&#12452;&#12398;&#12411;&#12358;&#12420;&#65281;&#12301; (Reeve: Not the shachou! The Sister Ray!)


Other characters also use respectful terms when talking about Rufus using his name:

&#12304;&#20853;&#22763;&#65316;&#12305;
&#12300;&#12523;&#12540;&#12501;&#12449;&#12454;&#12473;&#27096;&#12289;&#21040;&#30528;&#12391;&#12377;&#65281; &#28310;&#20633;&#23436;&#20102;&#12391;&#12377;&#65281;&#12301; (Rufus-sama has arrived! The preparations are complete!!)

&#12471;&#12456;&#12521;
&#12300;&#26032;&#31038;&#38263;&#12398;&#12523;&#12540;&#12501;&#12449;&#12454;&#12473;&#12373;&#12435;&#12364;&#12371;&#12371;&#12408;&#12356;&#12425;&#12387;&#12375;&#12419;&#12427;&#12381;&#12358;&#12394;&#12435;&#12391;&#12377;&#12290;&#33382;&#38263;&#12399;&#26397;&#12363;&#12425;&#12381;&#12431;&#12381;&#12431;&#12375;&#12390;&#12414;&#12377;&#12431;&#12301; (Shera: They say the new shachou Rufus-san is coming here. The captain has been restless since the morning)

&#12471;&#12456;&#12521;
&#12300;&#12523;&#12540;&#12501;&#12449;&#12454;&#12473;&#31038;&#38263;&#12364;&#26469;&#12383;&#12398;&#12399;&#23431;&#23449;&#38283;&#30330;&#12434;&#20877;&#38283;&#12377;&#12427;&#12383;&#12417;&#12394;&#12398;&#12391;&#12375;&#12423;&#12358;&#12363;&#65311;&#12301; (Shera: I wonder if the reason Rufus-shachou is visiting is to restart the space program?)

He is given a title showing respect when his name is used. No one does that when they mention President Shinra.

You can also see this contrast in Tseng's dialogue, where he says the same thing about each Shinra. For President Shinra:

&#12484;&#12457;&#12531;
&#12300;&#12378;&#12356;&#12406;&#12435;&#12392;&#38263;&#12356;&#26178;&#38291;&#12364;&#12363;&#12363;&#12387;&#12383;&#12364; &#12420;&#12387;&#12392;&#12503;&#12524;&#12472;&#12487;&#12531;&#12488;&#12395;&#22577;&#21578;&#12391;&#12365;&#12427;&#12301; (Tseng: It has taken quite a long time, but I can finally report to [the] President.)

And when Rufus takes command:

&#12484;&#12457;&#12531;
&#12300;&#8230;&#8230;&#12393;&#12358;&#12363;&#12394;&#12290;&#12392;&#12395;&#12363;&#12367;&#31038;&#38263;&#12395;&#22577;&#21578;&#12384;&#12301; (Tseng: .... I wonder. Anyway, we will report to the shachou.)

Unless Tseng was on a first name basis with the late President Shinra, I think that points more towards 'President' being a title rather than a name.


The one time that might contradict this is when Cloud sees President Shinra in the mako reactor:

&#12463;&#12521;&#12454;&#12489;
&#12300;&#12402;&#12373;&#12375;&#12406;&#12426;&#12384;&#12394;&#12289;&#12503;&#12524;&#12472;&#12487;&#12531;&#12488;&#12301; (It's been a while, President)

&#12463;&#12521;&#12454;&#12489;
&#12300;&#24453;&#12390;&#12289;&#12503;&#12524;&#12472;&#12487;&#12531;&#12488;&#65281;&#12301; (Wait, President!)

Cloud doesn't refer to Rufus using any kind of respectful title (I think the only time anyone is AVALANCHE does is during the Junon scenes when Aerith disguised as a Shinra troop says "Rufus... sama" once), and he isn't using polite language here (&#65374;&#12384;&#12394; instead of &#65374;&#12391;&#12377;&#12397;). But in this context he is talking to his former boss. Even if he isn't being completely polite, he might still be using his formal title.
 
#17
Seems everything there points to the President simply not having an intended first name at all. Seeing as this is the same game with Hojo and Sephiroth, two other people with oddly...lacking...full names, I don't think this is too unusual. President Shinra must simply have always been known as "President Shinra" straight back to when he was first conceived as a character, and they never bothered to think up a first name for him.

It's actually kinda fitting, since it forces everyone, even haters like AVALANCHE, to call him President, simply because no one knows what else to call him. He probably keeps his first name a company secret so everyone calls him President whether they like it or not.
 
#22
Dammit, hito. Everytime there's talk regarding him you crack me up.

And thanks for the Japanese perspective, not just the words, but the implications. :monster: I feel like a lot of our discussions would flounder around without your insight :)
 

Octo

KULT OF KERMITU
AKA
Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
#23
Here are some possible names for Pres Shinra as I kind of feel sorry for the guy not having a name, maybe if he'd had a name he wouldn't have been such a shitbag:

Orville
Eurig
Chryses
Aurelius

Rufus means 'red haired' and all the above names derive or relate to 'gold/golden' and the President has goldy/blond hair......so yeah I need a job.
 

Farron

If the sky comes falling down
AKA
Hallelujah
#24
Here are some possible names for Pres Shinra as I kind of feel sorry for the guy not having a name, maybe if he'd had a name he wouldn't have been such a shitbag:

Orville
Eurig
Chryses
Aurelius

Rufus means 'red haired' and all the above names derive or relate to 'gold/golden' and the President has goldy/blond hair......so yeah I need a job.
Aurelius sounds fancy and professional. Head-Canon time ! :P
 
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