Questions for the community around site spoiler policy

[Lex]

Hi folks,

There's been some praise for how the spoilers have been handled so far and I'm glad for that. Moving forward Claymore and I were discussing next steps. I think making a spoiler subforum for the remake section is definitely on the cards, but people will obviously still need to make sure that spoilers stay out of thread titles.

We have a few options, but thinking ahead to the game's actual release we were thinking it would be a good idea to have a thread for each section of the game. This way when you complete a section you know you can safely go in to that thread to talk about your experience with that segment without being spoiled on the rest of it.

The other topic I wanted to discuss was spoilers for the game in general. Obviously anything that has leaked is under the strictest rules and must either be kept to the dedicated thread or spoiler tagged elsewhere, but in terms of trailer content (i.e. official stuff) what's the community mood?

I do personally feel that anything officially released i.e. trailers should be openly discussed and talked about, but it's not something I want to enforce if people really want it all tagged so that they can keep posting if they're "going dark" at this stage, which I totally respect. That said, I think that enters the board as a whole into a realm of complexity with posting stuff I'm not sure everyone would be able to keep up with. This would also be difficult to police. So here's how I feel overall:

FFVII OG Story - Open spoilers
FFVII Remake Official Trailers/ Info - Open discussion, should be tagged if someone feels something is juicy
FFVII Remake Leaks - Absolutely needs to be kept to specific places and carefully tagged

Thoughts?

 

[Strangelove]

could i suggest extending that to profile posts, or if not then somehow hiding the widget on the forum home page (as it shows you text from the posts and i'm not sure if tags would work there like they don't when looking through a user's post history)

 

[Lex]

Oooooo that's a really good shout Hito. I'll see if I can do something with the subforum to hide it from the main forum page.

Additionally I'll make it clear that no spoilers are to be discussed openly (including profile posts). It's really easy to turn off that widget though if it becomes a problem.

 

[Shademp]

FFVII OG Story - Open spoilers
FFVII Remake Official Trailers/ Info - Open discussion, should be tagged if someone feels something is juicy
FFVII Remake Leaks - Absolutely needs to be kept to specific places and carefully tagged

Sounds reasonable.

So far I've appreciated in the leaks thread that most has been kept in spoiler tags and that it's been relatively easy to filter out where I want to spoil myself and not. I mostly avoid the dialogue script leaks while I'm devouring the images and music. Thusly I appreciate the continued use of spoiler tags even in the leaks thread.

 

[Lex]

Sounds reasonable.

So far I've appreciated in the leaks thread that most has been kept in spoiler tags and that it's been relatively easy to filter out where I want to spoil myself and not. I mostly avoid the dialogue script leaks while I'm devouring the images and music. Thusly I appreciate the continued use of spoiler tags even in the leaks thread.

I agree, but I'm not sure I'd want to mandate that everything is tagged within a spoiler thread. I think people are sensible enough to know when something really needs it though.

That was one of the reasons I made the "spoiler free questions" thread, for people who don't want to accidentally see something they don't want to see.

 

[Interslicery]

I'm pushing back a bit against open spoilers for the original game, since I've seen a few members say they haven't played the original. But then I'm not sure how much they've learned just by osmosis.

 

[Mayo Master]

We have a few options, but thinking ahead to the game's actual release we were thinking it would be a good idea to have a thread for each section of the game. This way when you complete a section you know you can safely go in to that thread to talk about your experience with that segment without being spoiled on the rest of it.

I really like this idea. I was looking forward to talking about the game as I'd go through it without spoiling myself.
Otherwise I'm fine with how spoilers have been managed.

 

[Lex]

I'm pushing back a bit against open spoilers for the original game, since I've seen a few members say they haven't played the original. But then I'm not sure how much they've learned just by osmosis.

My position on this is that it's just impossible to enforce. People can feel free to spoiler tag story beats from the original that are sensitive, but it doesn't stop a newbie reading one of the tens of thousands of threads we have here that happens to have a spoiler in it, and if we were to take up this policy we would be obliged to trawl through all of that and tag it, which is just something that's not possible to do.

I know you (and others who share the position) will mean "from now on", but it doesn't take away that spoilers have been openly discussed for nearly 12 years and pandora's box can't be closed IMO.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yeah, it would be like insisting on "I am your father" spoiler tagging for the new "Star Wars" movies because it's technically a plot point.

 

[Odysseus]

Honestly, this is a pretty explicitly FF7 themed forum. The game is 23 years old now, as well. If someone is here, it means that at the very least they're probably familiar with the plot of the game, if not having actually played it. Spoilers for the original seem pointless now.

Where this becomes tricky is, what if a lot of new people come here once the remake is out and making new FF7 fans who haven't played the original. Are OG spoilers still okay then? It's a difficult situation.

 

[NibelFire]

I appreciate how you guys've been managing spoiler contents. It's very simple for me to decide for myself how much I want to be let in on.

Regarding the original contents, my opinion is that it really isn't necessary to give them the same treatment as the Remake ones. TLS contains a massive amount of openly discussed, in-depth FF7 contents that casually reference OG plotline -- from the compendium, to the OG section -- so much that the only way to create genuine secrecy is by retroactively go back and spoiler tags everything.

Yes, there will be many fans coming here with varying degrees of FF7 knowledge, if at all, but I feel that people should be responsible for being selective with what they open up. The best thing you guys can do is just to avoid having those contents popping out in places people have no control over, such as the frontpage, or the open profile posts. (great suggestion @Strangelove !)

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I think expecting people not to spoiler the OG in the Remake Non-Spoiler section is reasonable. Anywhere else, particularly in the OG sub-forums or the Compilation forums feels like we're bending over backwards for no reason.

Spoiling the OG in the Remake Spoilers section might be a bit more arguable, but I know that just from looking at the current Remake Spoiler thread, a good chunk of it is comparing the Remake to the OG, which necessitates people knowing what happens in the OG. So I think trying to keep OG Spoilers out of the Remake Spoilers section is asking for... a lot.

One thing I think we do need is at least one thread where people can go hog-wild about spoilers and then make it very clear that if people don't want to be spoiled, then they just should stay out of there. I don't know about other people on the forum, but I'm basically on the opposite side of "no spoilers" and will happily go out looking for spoilers and am very bad at not talking about spoilers... at least at first. It's easier not to talk about spoilers once the actual spoilers are out of my system.

As for making threads for each section of the game... I feel like doing this for every chapter would be a bit much and maybe split the forums up too much. A lot depends on how "long" each offical chapter of the game is, and lumping shorter chapters that narrativly fit together might work better. But I don't think we'll know that until someone actually plays the game. So like.... maybe have an Act I, Act II, Act III, etc. sections where each act is several chapters in length?

Personally, I think how we've handled the leaks with having a fairly open "anything goes" thread and then an "ask only the questions you want answered" thread has worked out well. As someone who doesn't mind spoilers, it gives me both a place to gush about everything and also a place to know what other people's limits are and answer their questions without worrying I'm telling them things they don't want to know.

 

[Ite]

I think a section on each chapter is a really safe way to manage ppls expectations about what they’re clicking on. When I read and post in such threads, it’s very easy for me to put my mindset in a place of “I know up to X point in the story” and can talk from that mindset.

With the OG, and Spoiler-Remake sections, not so much. As has been said, the game is 23 years old and the deep knowledge of the forum members is a huge draw of TLS. A clear tag line on the OG and Comp sections stating “For those who played the OG or don’t mind endgame/sequel spoilers” will deter the newcomers from treading where they mightn’t want.

Edit: I meant thread* on each chapter but hey go nuts!

 

[Highwind]

Making threads for each chapter would spoil the number of chapters.

 

[Saven]

Making threads for each chapter would spoil the number of chapters.

Yeah, I would suggest to make each sub-section based on story, battle system, mini-games, etc.

 

[Mayo Master]

Making threads for each chapter would spoil the number of chapters.

In my view, you'll get this particular spoiler just when you browse the list of "Hidden trophies" that comes with the game anyway. I'm not sure there's a practical way of handling this if you don't want to spoil the number of chapters.

Yeah, I would suggest to make each sub-section based on story, battle system, mini-games, etc.

That would not solve the problem, since it would just be transposed to the "story" sub-section.

Personally I don't like spoilers (hell, I've not read any E3 demo impression nor watched TGS and Game awards trailers), but I think that getting spoiled on the number of chapters is a very small accommodation to make. If I didn't want to be spoiled on that level, I think I would simply stay out of web communities until I clear the game, then come back and discuss.

 

[ForceStealer]

I think the steps taken so far have been very smart, Lex, especially that questions thread. I didn't partake, but that was a great idea that works because of the community here

I'm of the mind that avoiding spoilers of anything officially released should be on the individual. If it was officially released, people should be able to talk about it openly (though not maliciously, off course), and if they want to spoiler-tag it out of the goodness of their hearts, kudos.

Same thing for OG spoilers, if someone wants to remain unspoiled about a 23 year-old game, that's on them. Pretty much everyone here who mentions not having played the original simply came in through the Compilation and know the major things that happen anyway.

And yes, I think chapter threads is a great solution. Otherwise I'd be afraid to come here at all until I complete the game. (Assuming I even move from my seat once I start playing ) Personally, I don't think the number of chapters constitutes a spoiler. There's nothing to suggest chapters are even of similar length. They certainly weren't in XV.

 

[Ite]

The size of a book on a shelf isn’t a spoiler, is it?

 

[Lex]

I don't think it'll be as big of an issue as people think (myself included - I did mention the number of chapters being spoiled in my opening post). If we have some threads in there already you can safely search for say "Chapter 1 Spoiler Discussion" and only see that thread, or the section should be busy/ jumbled enough with posting that the overall number of chapters isn't noticeable.

I know how many chapters there are right now but if I make the threads now then the number of chapters would be spoiled for people before the game comes out, and that's no fair. If we're doing this I plan to pull the trigger in a way that's non-obvious to people like myself who use the "new posts" function. For example, making the first 2-3 chapter threads on the eve of release, and rolling the rest out the following day. People will be busy playing the game and can come here to post their impressions whenever they feel comfortable (food breaks are my plan lmaooooooooooo my life)

I'm going to look deeper into Xen's functionality though because there should be some good options we haven't thought of, like a spoiler plugin or somesuch. I just know that I'm gonna want to come here and post about it as I'm playing for sure. That's been the case with every FF release never mind THIS game that we've all been anticipating (positively or negatively) prior to the birth of this board.

 

[Ite]

I imagine pinned threads will be of much use to us during the first few years after the game's release.... I just realized that by that point we'll be doing the same thing with Part 2, so it's vital to set a precedent now. Major props to you guys for handling this with such compassion and forethought. afaik this is a pretty unique situation we find ourselves in lol

 

[Lex]

In a bit I will do the following:

- Creation of the "spoiler" subforum for the FFVII Remake forum
- Creation of threads for discussion of set things within the spoiler subsection
- A pinned thread setting out our spoiler policy

This is an opportunity for you guys to weigh in on what you personally want before I get cracking with it. I can't promise to accommodate everyone but I'd like to make sure people can still discuss what they want to discuss without fear (or at least with a decreased level of it, there's always a risk someone could post a spoiler whether out of malice or just carelessness).

 

[Tetsujin]

Can I hide the spoiler forum threads from my view?

 

[Lex]

My recommendation would be to use this feature



And tick only "unread threads" and "watched content". This will only show you threads you've actually participated in.

You can set which threads become "watched" somewhere in your user profile. It works the same way ResetEra does - i.e. if you post in a thread it automatically becomes "watched", if you like a post in it also becomes watched. If you never click on a thread, it won't ever be "watched" (that's the little eye symbol you can see on threads in the main thread navigator).

You can set how this works in your own user profile, under preferences:



This is if you use the "new posts" feature. If you use forum browse (i.e. manual mode), they'll be hidden away in a subforum anyway. There may be an option I can tick in the backend to prevent "latest posts" from the spoiler section showing up on the forum front page. If I can't do that, I'll just turn that widget off until we're a year or so down the line. I don't think many people actually use the main page widgets anyway.

 

[Lex]

I might have a better solution. I have this option when creating new forums:



Before I continue with this, bear in mind that all the chapter discussion threads will be going in here. Meaning people probably won't know they exist unless they manually go to this board. I know this is a good thing from a spoiler avoidance POV, but if people don't know the threads exist they'll never get posted in will they? XD

Is this the solution people would prefer? If so it's literally just a click of a button.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I feel like folks will go looking for such discussions in the sub-forum.