Questions on Cloud's internal struggles

[Makoeyes987]

In the next chapter, Shinra literally sends out Moth Slashers and Armored Shock Troopers after you after you leave the Drum. The Moth Slashers even chase you on the Highway. That's an example right there of Hojo's Science Department creations having direct practical use.

Yes there are failures but those failures definitely lead to successes. After all, one has to experiment to gain knowledge and success.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

There's never been an instance of Shinra selling their tech or research. If you're going to claim there is, the burden of proof is on you to show it. Shinra owns the world and the economy. Their assets are theirs and theirs alone.

I'm not saying any of this is hard irrefutable truth, but it makes more sense to me that Shinra would still sell other things even after Mako became its main course of business, because otherwise they're leaving easy money on the table.

Aren't there machines and shipping crates all over Sector 5 with the company logo on them? Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

And those hand-crane things in Sector 6, there's one of those in the HQ exhibit.

You know that some weapons out in the field originate from Hojo's department as well. Can I get a citation that tells us Materia is entirely under Scarlet's department purview alone?

Going by the original game alone, that almost certainly wasn't the case. The pods Hojo had put people inside in the Mt. Nibel reactor were identified (in the Ultimania Omega) as materia production units.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Aren't there machines and shipping crates all over Sector 5 with the company logo on them? Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

And those hand-crane things in Sector 6, there's one of those in the HQ exhibit.

Aerith explains how that scrap and junk was from Shinra's construction of Midgar. You see those very same hand cranes in the FFVII-R opening movie, where the city construction workers are doing some kind of work with these tools. It makes sense given Shinra owns Midgar after all, and they would be the ones to upkeep it.

Going by the original game alone, that almost certainly wasn't the case. The pods Hojo had put people inside in the Mt. Nibel reactor were identified (in the Ultimania Omega) as materia production units.

I always thought that was a cover story. Like, yeah that's what the pods were stated to be for, but Hojo always intended to do human experiments with them and that's why Jenova was kept there.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Why would the Ultimania Omega need a cover story for talking about this? =P It'd be a pretty bad cover story anyway, what with the giving away the real story -- "Hojo was the cause of the malfunctions because he put people in the machines used to make materia, turning them into monsters."

 

[Makoeyes987]

Why would the Ultimania Omega need a cover story for talking about this? =P It'd be a pretty bad cover story anyway, what with the giving away the real story -- "Hojo was the cause of the malfunctions because he put people in the machines used to make materia, turning them into monsters."

Because it's full of lies and damn lies!!

lol j/k, I mean, I get your point. But I merely thought it was giving the actual in-story explanation of what the devices were stated to be used for, while the game clearly presents that the whole Nibel Reactor was really about Hojo having a place to keep Jenova and realize his human experiments.

So are you saying Hojo did those human experiments with the individuals in those pods in secret, against the policies of Shinra or something? Like a twisted side-project to further research the effects of mako exposure on humans? I mean, I guess he could have, but then you have to ask, "why is Jenova stored there?" If Hojo's not meant to use the facility to carry out his Jenova and Mako experiments there, why keep Hojo's "dark secret" in a place so perfectly labeled and fitted for it?

That was my thinking, at least.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

So are you saying Hojo did those human experiments with the individuals in those pods in secret, against the policies of Shinra or something?

Not really. Shin-Ra policy is just whatever the executives order at a given moment.

Aerith explains how that scrap and junk was from Shinra's construction of Midgar. You see those very same hand cranes in the FFVII-R opening movie, where the city construction workers are doing some kind of work with these tools. It makes sense given Shinra owns Midgar after all, and they would be the ones to upkeep it.

That's not the point. The point is that Shin-Ra's crap has been left all over the slums, including active mechs. People even use them in the colosseum. That hardly reflects that "all assets of Shin-Ra are protected without fail."

And that's without even getting into mass-produced materia, which clearly is sold to authorized vendors throughout the city (and world).

People are constantly walking around with Shin-Ra's research/tech. The company allows it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I guess I should clarify that I meant high-level tech like the technology to create SOLDIER through use of Mako, Jenova cells, the research data from Deepground, mining Mako, creating monsters, their airforce, and things like that.

Yeah Shinra is pretty cavalier with their basic to mid-tier weaponry.

 

[Clement Rage]

So, is this one of those moments where after a page of argument we all find out we secretly agree with each other again?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

So, is this one of those moments where after a page of argument we all find out we secretly agree with each other again?

I know you are but what am I

 

[Torrie]

There's a tumblr post where the author gives an interesting reference to a lost interview. Have you come across anything like that?

If Cloud acted like Zack why the hell did he act like such an ass then?

It didn’t click for me either actually until I read something that was said about the dialog choice by one of the staff in some interview (and for the life of me I can’t find it or remember who said it because it was like 10 years ago.. so if anyone knows what I’m referring to please let me kno).

Basically before the Lifestream Cloud has two personalities that are mostly expressed by the dialog choice. Both of them are fake. One of them is based on Zack, which is the nice flirty one, the one that is interested in people, optimistic and is more playful. And one is the fake personality Cloud made up for himself when he was a kid trying to hide his insecurities by acting like he’s better than everyone else. (Dun let the beautiful cinnamon roll face fool you! Cloud was a real prick growing up.)

The article gives more examples and is debatable enough, but the only thing I want to know is whether this is a confirmed fact about the dialogue choice, or if the author dreamed the entire thing up.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It's definitely an interesting idea, but the only similar descriptions that come to mind for me are those that say pre-Mideel Cloud's personality is a mix of his true self, Sephiroth's influence, the stuff copied off Zack, and his own immature ideal of what a cool 1st Class SOLDIER would behave like.

 

[Torrie]

@The Twilight Mexican Yeah, that's what we know for sure. I'm inclined to think either that the interview was mistranslated or that the author has mixed up memories about the case. If it was a well-known fact that one dialogue option represents one persona and the other option is the other persona's choice, everybody would have been talking about it for ages.

 

[Torrie]

Even though discussions about Cloud's personality are scattered around TLS, I believe this is an appropriate thread to post it. Cloud is mentioned in the video on the Japanese expression "yare yare daze" by the Japaneze teacher Yuta.

The video explains what the expression really means (the closest English translation would be "good grief", or it may serve as a verbal equivalent to a sigh or an eye roll), why it's misused/overused by non-native Japanese speakers, and gives a lot of contextual examples. As Yuta mentiones, Cloud comments on various situations with "yare yare" quite a few times, especially in the Remake, which gives another insight into his personality. (Edit: in fact, he may not say it out loud, but he is quite similar to a person with a yare yare attitude).

I don't feel like looking through Japanese let's plays again for examples, but it would be a nice thing to pay attention to in the future.

 

[Rydeen]

Yuta is the man; been watching him for years.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Interesting that Japanese readers think Murakami's dialogue sounds fake and forced, and as if it's been translated from English. Translated into English, the dialogue in his books also sounds a little unnatural, but I thought that was beause every single character talks in exactly the same way. They don't seem to have individualistic speech mannerisms.