Real World References in Different Universes (Fiction)

[Clement Rage]

So, I came across a reference to 'SWAT teams' in a world that doesn't have an earth, and it kind of took me out of the world, because SWAT refers to a specific type of unit in the US, it only became a way to describe that kind of unit because of TV, other countries call it something else. But I can't think of any way to describe the same kind of thing without spending a paragraph explaining something that would be just as easily explained with the phrase 'SWAT team'. But it took me out of the world a bit.

It's very hard to balance that kind of thing, and there's no way to rule out this kind of thing completely, it's impossible, languages reference things, that's how they work.

So, Writers, do you have a rule for this kind of thing? What bothers you, what doesn't? How do you decide what to reference and what not to, or do you care about this kind of thing at all? Please share.

 

[Mayo Master]

A suggestion: come up with a name that could sound like an acronym. SWAT is in the US, in France we have RAID (Research, Assistance, Intervention, Dissuasion), in FF 7 you have SOLDIER (although none said it actually was an acronym, I like to think it is), and then you can disclose what the acronym stands for, at which point it should be self-explanatory enough.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I agree with you, Clem, that sort of thing bothers me a lot.
1. Brand names when it would be so, so easy to invent a brand. In FFVII (which, let's the face it, is the only thing I know anything about), why have them drinking Coca-Cola or Dr Pepper when they could be drinking Shinra-Cola? In fact, this is especially in FFVII, I would say, given how Shinra is one enormous multinational corporation that runs everything, so that there is no line between where the marketing department ends and the propaganda department begins.

Inventing brand-names is fun. It's part of world-building. I don't understand why writers wouldn't want to indulge themselves. I particularly find this to be the case with weapons. A Glock may be a fine gun, but Tseng doesn't own one. He owns a gun made by the Shinra Weapons department.

On the other hand, brand names that have become generic names for products might not bother me. As far as I'm concerned, "post-it notes" is definitely okay; "band-aid" is iffy; "Cliff Bar" is unacceptable.

2. Importing our-world solutions for problems that already have their own in-game solution. EG, why would people in FFVII need our name-brand pharmaceuticals when they have potions, ethers, hypers and tranquillisers?

3. However, I'm okay with borrowing names when the game itself does so. For example I think it would be just fine to have the other stretches of beaches near Costa del Sol named Costa Brava, Costa Rica and so on.

I also think it would be quite funny if Panasonic made all their PHSs.

 

[Mayo Master]

I second what Licorice said
By the way, given what you mentioned, I thought I needed to show you part of the assets I was making when I was working for the Team Avalanche mod of FF7. I hope you'll enjoy.

Spoiler: Some examples

 

[Starling]

When you think about it, languages are full of words that shouldn't exist or would have to be different in certain settings, but are too ingrained in our minds to just change without making things strange and awkward, making them an acceptable break from reality more often than not.

Mentioning brands when simply something as what is with possible mention of whether it's fancy, cheap or whatever would suffice bug me as well. Another thing that bugs me is copy-pasting holidays and such onto a fictional setting, as those would require the same culture, traditions and history that led to them here, which would clash with settings that are nothing like modern society. It'd be so much more interesting to look at the culture and history the setting gives you, expand on it with stuff that'd fit with it and make some holidays and traditions based on what the people of that world would likely celebrate. For example, in FF7, it would make sense if there were something akin to pagan traditions dating back from the Cetra, but it's unlikely they had anything like catholicism and related religions. However, it's likely they'd have a few holidays we don't have in commemoration of some historical event.

While fictional settings often mirror reality in various ways, the exact culture of the people in it don't have to correspond exactly to an existing one, but rather incorporate elements of various cultures or make changes based on the difference in historical background and how that would affect people's mentality.

For the SWAT team issue, can't you just refer to them as a specialized force and then describe what they're doing or how they're equipped? Let the context of the situation indicate that the group is roughly equivalent to what some people know as a SWAT team.

 

[Clement Rage]

Everyone's threshold is different and basically arbitrary, from what I can tell.

RAID is a nice acronym. Technically, SWAT stands for 'Special Weapons and Tactics' if I remember right, which is fairly neutral in itself, but I associate it with 'US police', so it gives me pause when they show up in Edge. Also, I'm not sure there would be a standard police unit there, it'd be more likely the WRO military would enforce order. But anyway.

I wouldn't actually be okay with Costa Rica and Panasonic, and Molotov bugs me a bit even in the game, because it's named after a specific Russian guy.

Those brands also bother me a bit because they're very closely modelled on real world ones. If it's alternate universe Earth, that's perfect, like Nozz-A-La in Stephen King.

Frisbee would arbitrarily pass with me even though it's a brand. I'm okay with 'God!' or 'Gods!' as an exclamation because it's a word, in a way I wouldn't be for 'Jesus!' or 'Allah'. That said, I appreciate someone making the effort of Steven Erikson, in that people curse by a variety of things based on the different gods in the universe, some people curse by Oponn (god and goddess of luck), others by "Lady's mercy!" or "Queen of Dreams!" But that only works in certain settings.

The existence of churches I generally let go because they're cool looking buildings, they have things like stained glass and candles and bells and murals that make for an epic bossfight room, as long as they don't have icons that make for a specific religion. Probably arbitrary too.

"I plead the Fifth" or "You Nazi bastard!" are definitely out.

So, basically, my standards are excessively nitpicky and completely arbitrary. Ah well.

I spent a while the other day coming up with an Acronym for SOLDIER, ended up with "Special Operative for Local Deployment, Interventions, and Extreme Response."

 

[Clement Rage]

Sorry if that was rude by the way, I wasn't trying to undercut your rules, just expand on my arbitrary nitpicks.

 

[Ite]

Don't forget Seventh Heaven is a Texas Cowboy Old bar!

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Don't forget Seventh Heaven is a Texas Cowboy Old bar!

I know - unlikely real-world references are actually canon in FFVII! It's the cowboy thing that is particularly odd, since they don't appear to have any cows. I am willing to accept that Texas is a place in their world - maybe somewhere in the grasslands? That would be a good place for ranching.

 

[Flare]

Will we still get to buy Korean BBQ from that stand in the Slums? That's what I wanna know.

OT: I think when it comes to real world terms used in places that aren't on this planet/world, such as fantasy works, it really does depend on the terms. Like you mention 'frisbee', well everyone knows that's what the object is, changing it to something else that hasn't been heard before and then explaining it to readers until they realize it's just a frisbee can dull the narrative.
Like, on the tv tropes site, there's those tropes of 'calling a smeerp a rabbit' and 'calling a rabbit a smeerp', in other words you could confuse people by calling a horse something totally different because that world might not've decided on the same name as our world for such things as horses, which might be realistic in a way but for readers it totally confuses you. It's actually a bit easier to call some weird animal a 'horse', as long as it functions the same way (It's used for transport, rideable, ect) so that, again, readers aren't confused.

Anyway, for some terms and brand names, I do my best to stay away from those things in my fantasy novels, because it takes place in a completely different world, so those brands don't exist. My level of what's acceptable and what isn't' is sort of like this:
My novel has a coffee machine that's ran by a little system utilizing Magic. It's not designed the same as our world's coffee machines, but it's still called a coffee machine. That's acceptable to me, but calling it a 'Mr. Coffee' or a 'Bunn' isn't, since those are brands.

Referring to the use of SWAT, unless you were writing about an alternate Earth, I would recommend against using it since it's an acronym most people know of and get a distinct image in their mind from. I would change it to something more fitting to your own world, and just a brief explanation for it should satisfy readers and give them a good idea on what that group does.

I use the term 'White Knight' in my novels to denote a high order of trained fighters, who's skills are renowned and respected across the land. It's a simple term with a small explanation and gets the point across without unnerving the story/narrative.

 

[Abortedj]

Real world references really bother me in universes where they don't make since. Demon's Souls came to mind as soon as I read the OP. In it they reference the "Virgin Mary", which is odd in a world with (seemingly) no Christianity.

 

[Starling]

Don't forget Seventh Heaven is a Texas Cowboy Old bar!

I know - unlikely real-world references are actually canon in FFVII! It's the cowboy thing that is particularly odd, since they don't appear to have any cows. I am willing to accept that Texas is a place in their world - maybe somewhere in the grasslands? That would be a good place for ranching.

How about somewhere close enough to Cosmo Canyon to get hot, desert-like weather but just far enough from Nibelheim to get the grassy plains instead of mountain terrain? Nibelheim could even do a lot of trade with them and Rocket Town, explaining the southern/midwestern accents.

 

[Mayo Master]

Don't forget Seventh Heaven is a Texas Cowboy Old bar!

I know - unlikely real-world references are actually canon in FFVII! It's the cowboy thing that is particularly odd, since they don't appear to have any cows. I am willing to accept that Texas is a place in their world - maybe somewhere in the grasslands? That would be a good place for ranching.

I always assumed these were leftovers from the early development of FFVII. Remember that in the very early concept, FFVII was imagined to be set on Earth, and what was thought of New York became Midgar. You can also find some backgrounds which look a lot like some places you'd find in
Arizona (think about how it differs from the rest of the Nibel mountains) or New Mexico.