Sephiroth at full power...

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
#1
So, I read in a YouTube comment regarding Sephiroth that it's been stated he was only using about 10% of his power against Cloud ( and I'd figure even less against Tifa, as Loz.) Is this true? Where is it stated? Thank you, all, ahead of time.
 

Dark and Divine

Pro Adventurer
AKA
D&D
#4
You mean during the Nibelheim incident, or during the final battle in the Northern Cave?
Probably they're reffering to the final fight in AC, where was common to think that Sephiroth was holding back.

Yes, he wasn't using all his outherwordly abilities, but he definitely wasn't holding back his pshysical prowess.

Thus, like Minato said, it's mere speculation, as there wasn't any oficial statement about such a thing.
 

Ergo

Sugar Honey Ice & Tea
AKA
Ergo, V
#6
Pretty sure this is entirely speculation.
Karan becoming sephiroth doesn't necessarily mean his body held the entire powers of sephiroth anyway.
I think this argument is probably just down to how cocky they made sephiroth look in his fight versus cloud.
 
#8
He wanted to defeat Cloud as a swordsman, so he didn't use his telekinesis directly on him (for all we know, I mean Cloud and everyone else overpowered his telekinesis at the end of VII and Cloud is by all rights stronger at the end of AC), but he was still flying and bringing buildings down on top of him. He was unquestionably trying to kill him. The only punch he pulled was the shoulder stab which AC Complete got rid of anyway.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#11
He wanted to defeat Cloud as a swordsman, so he didn't use his telekinesis directly on him (for all we know, I mean Cloud and everyone else overpowered his telekinesis at the end of VII and Cloud is by all rights stronger at the end of AC), but he was still flying and bringing buildings down on top of him. He was unquestionably trying to kill him. The only punch he pulled was the shoulder stab which AC Complete got rid of anyway.
I've been saying this for 10 years or more now, but no way was Sephiroth actually trying to kill him in the middle of his "Shall I give you despair?" speech. Not even in AC Complete. It wasn't going to happen until after he had given Cloud his special "reminder" and taunted him with the prospect of killing his loved ones next.
 

Roger

Novice DM
AKA
Minato
#12
I can understand that but Sephiroth is still far removed from a Dragonball Z villain that needs to power up for a few minutes before fighting at 100% or 50% power. He had access to his full strength every time Cloud pushed him back that fight, access to his full speed every time Omnislash V6 hit him.
 
#13
I've been saying this for 10 years or more now, but no way was Sephiroth actually trying to kill him in the middle of his "Shall I give you despair?" speech. Not even in AC Complete. It wasn't going to happen until after he had given Cloud his special "reminder" and taunted him with the prospect of killing his loved ones next.
And for 10 years I've disagreed. :monster: If that's true he was really freakin confident that Cloud could survive a lot of shit! He took his chances to gloat when the opportunity presented itself, for sure. But there are multiple sword strikes and dropping-massive-pieces-of-buildings-on-top-of-him that would have absolutely killed Cloud had Cloud not defended or dodged. Are you telling me he was using his telekinesis to make sure none of those hunks of pipes and concrete building actually struck Cloud before he could ask him what he cherished most?
If what you say is true, Cloud should have been on the attack the entire time while Sephiroth merely parried and monologued. But that is obviously not the case.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#14
I'm saying Seph knew what Cloud could handle, and wasn't dishing out more than that. Roger's comparison to a DBZ villain is appropriate.

So, sure, Seph was taking swings at him that could kill him if they connected. But let's even take Seph's clear intent to deliver his monologue out of the equation and just consider: how many times did he disappear from Cloud's sight during that fight only to do something non-lethal? Or move so fast Cloud didn't even see the movement, just the result?

One thing my mind comes back to that really clinches it for me is what Seph does immediately after Cloud uses Blade Beam: Sephiroth has already dodged the attack with a side-step before Cloud's sword even makes contact with the fighting surface, but rather than impale or bisect him right then and there, he casually moves to a higher position, gives the stumbling Cloud a moment to steady himself -- then delivers two long vertical slashes in the shape of an enormous "V" to the part of the building right in front of Cloud, and has finished those cuts faster than Cloud could even register his subsequent flinch in response.

Had those slashes been aimed at Cloud himself, that would have been the end.

Even if just looking at the swordplay aspect of the situation, watching the fight in slow motion or with frequent pausing tells such a one-sided tale. Either Seph was taking his sweet time with it all or the two of them had coreographed this extensively.

And that's without even getting into all the avenues of attack we can all agree Seph didn't utilize in their battle since he wanted to beat Cloud as a swordsman. He could have even just killed him at the moment he materialized, where he was telekinetically holding him in place in the open air above him. How easy would it have been to use this to lock Cloud in place or slow him down, even if for only the instant it would have taken for a swing to catch him -- if Cloud truly was only dodging them at the last instant, despite Sephiroth's best efforts? Or how easy to telekinetically deflect Cloud's blade so that a slash could find meat and bone instead of obstructionary metal?
 
#15
You can't really say 'I'm using 40 % of my swordsmanship' right now, but it seems like Sephiroth is certainly in control of the fight. There's no strain in his voice until the final limit break, no grunts of effort, etc.

Re telekinesis etc, I'm not sure, depends how much concentration it takes. High level SOLDIER on SOLDIER action does seem to be mostly sword on sword, possibly because it's easier to animate, but possibly because there's no time to spare for casting. Would those telekinetic tricks divert a lot of attention from the swordfighting itself? Against Zack in Nibelheim, Sephiroth sticks to his sword.

Re suspended in midair, I actually thought that was just Cloud's strength keeping all his weight on the sword trying to cut Kadaj in half.

How much effort does it take to maintain the dramatically appropriate thunderstorm?
 
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Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
#16
I think Sephiroth was playing with Cloud... Maybe that's been said and proven, so sorry if I'm stating the obvious. But, yeah. Sephiroth wanted to toy with Cloud first - albeit (near?) fatally. He's showing the old saying that cats play with their food. He didnt want to kill Cloud yet, he wanted to torture him physically and mentally. If Sephiroth succeeded, I'm sure Cloud's end would be death, but Sephiroth would see him see his friends and family dead first.
 
#17
See, I don't like this idea that Cloud was so helpless and he only put up a fight by Sephiroth's good graces. This guy had already killed Sephiroth once by pyrrhic victory, and once handily with his friends. And how he's stronger than he was in either of those prior encounters. All things being equal, Sephiroth IS stronger, no doubt, and Cloud is fighting desperately while Sephiroth is calm. Sephiroth is in control of the fight, absolutely. But that's not the same thing as a mouse completely at the mercy of a cat that just plays with it. And I don't buy that Sephiroth knew with 100% certainty that Cloud would dodge this at 3:14:

Or this clear swing at Cloud's head at 3:33

To say nothing of dropping half a fucking building on him and being so sure one lucky I-beam wouldn't take him out.

Had those slashes been aimed at Cloud himself, that would have been the end.
So then why not just lop off an arm or a leg Monty Python-style and have his monologue? I have no trouble believing that, given an opening, Sephiroth would have avoided a fatal blow to simply cripple him and gloat, I mean, that is what he does by the end of the fight in ACC. But that the entire match was planned out in his head the whole time and he was making specific, incredibly dangerous maneuvers somehow knowing Cloud would defend them so he could get to that point? I don't buy it. And it would rob me of my enjoyment of Cloud's fight. To see him fight desperately while being outmatched, but not hopelessly so, is a lot more enjoyable than watching him chase a carrot on a string.

Again, by the end, when Cloud is clearly gassed, sure, Sephiroth is relishing a bit, it's clear how he was ready to see the original Omnislash with a parry for every strike. But I mean he uses that knowledge of the move to run him through, a usually fatal blow. One that Cloud has survived before, which Sephiroth acknowledges, before running him through 8 more times, and Cloud STILL manages to parry two of the strikes! And I think it's because he's damn strong, and not because Sephiroth...you know, didn't quite want to hit him 10 times so just deigned to let him block two. Bullshit.

As for the telekinesis thing, I never know what to make of that. Sephiroth has never really been shown to use it in combat. Not even in other appearances like KH or Dissidia. The only time he seems to ever even try using it offensively (as in, directly on a person, I would say dropping the Shinra builing was an offensive use of it, lol) is against the party at the end of the game when he's in full god-transformation, and they overpower it. It might simply not be his style no matter who he's fighting.
 
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Kuja9001

Ooooh Salty!
AKA
roxas9001, Krat0s9001, DarkSlayerZero
#18
I wanna mention throughout the comp, whenever see Sephiroth not going serious he uses one armed swings and such. Whereas in ACC against Cloud, he was using both arms in those sword swings. I remember something describing the fight as ferocious and eventually Seph takes the upperhand.
 
#19
@Force: I've always disliked Zack's sudden intrusion in the middle of the ACC fight for the same reason, but I think it's more 'I'll collapse this building on Cloud for luls, if he lives, fine, if he doesn't, ah well, I'll feel mild regret after I take over the world.'

Interesting thing about Sephy is how polite he is. The likes of Kuja say things like 'Do you really think you can defeat me?', whereas in response to 'what about this planet' he responds 'that's up to you' ie 'maybe you can take me, bring it.'

Edit:
Re: Tifa v Loz, that feels like a closer fight than Lox made it look by the end. The interesting thing about it is that Loz checkmates her, rather than outfighting her, he forces her to stay still by throwing that chair that will hit Marlene if she doesn't block it, so he can get in a proper hit.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#22
@ForceStealer
Well, I understand where you're coming from. My enjoyment of the scene isn't affected either way, so I can really only speak to what I have otherwise.

Re telekinesis etc, I'm not sure, depends how much concentration it takes. High level SOLDIER on SOLDIER action does seem to be mostly sword on sword, possibly because it's easier to animate, but possibly because there's no time to spare for casting. Would those telekinetic tricks divert a lot of attention from the swordfighting itself?
Difficult to guess, of course, though Seph does use it during the fight to break the Shin-Ra building in half rather than on Cloud himself.

Clement said:
Re suspended in midair, I actually thought that was just Cloud's strength keeping all his weight on the sword trying to cut Kadaj in half.
Well, either way, Seph is telekinetically holding something in place in midair there, whether it's Cloud himself or the sword Cloud is trying to press downward.

Clement said:
How much effort does it take to maintain the dramatically appropriate thunderstorm?
Worth every ounce. :monster:
 
#23
This leads to complicated philosophical questions like 'is he holding it in place, or merely stopping it from cutting him in half', 'was he using it during the fight and Cloud breaking free from moment to moment' and 'was the Shinra building falling a natural consequence of all the structural damage from the fight' and such.
 
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