Similarities Between Genesis and Kuja

[Nikkolas]

Ya know, I love Kuja and I was interested in Genesis when i first saw CC trailers. Yet I never drew any comparison between the two until a friend of mine brought it up.

The biggest similarities, aside from their poetic natures, is their key motivation. Both failed prototypes living in the shadow of the successful ones. While both seek power it is only to escape the fate forced on them by their creators.

While these are hardly unique motives, especially to anime fans such as myself, just looking in the context of the FF franchise, it is pretyt interesting I think.

Did anyone else ntoice the similarities?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Also, they're both girly men.

 

[Nikkolas]

Which is the way to be.

 

[Munatik]

Also, they're both girly men.

I wanna see Genesis' thong.

I think you're right in that actually points to what we see a lot of in Final Fantasy (and extremely in FFIX)--characters breaking from their molds and taking control of their destinies as individuals. In FFIX this was certainly one of the major themes, and tied all the main characters together, including Kuja. But one thing to consider is that Kuja is a parallel to Vivi.

Spoiler

Both were manufactured, both were considered defects, and both were forced to deal with the fact that they would soon perish.

Genesis, too, now happens to have the shit luck of being inferior AND being doomed as well. Based on that, I would say that Genesis is reminiscent of FFIX as a whole rather than just Kuja.

 

[Celes Chere]

But Genesis has no personality. Kuja does.

 

[Dark and Divine]

But Genesis has no personality. Kuja does.

^This!

While Kuja combined poetry with his own speech, Genesis spent all the time reciting the same play. Most of Genesis' lines are from "Loveless", with only a few being his own speech. That's annoying.

While there some common elements between the two characters, Genesis never caused the impact that Kuja did, at least in my case.

Of course, FFIX was way longer than CC, giving more time for Kuja's character to be presented, but they could do a better job with Genesis.

Really, i can't stop thinking of Genesis as a Kuja wannabe or a J-pop version of Sephiroth.

 

[Bonaventura]

Kuja is the Shakespeare of Final Fantasy. Genesis came and tried to steal Kuja's title...


... he failed miserably.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

Kuja had a personality of his own, while Genesis seemed to define his personality around Sephiroth. I think you can understand Kuja's motives. Genesis just seemed like a spoiled brat who was denied a new toy.

 

[Makoeyes987]

And Kuja's not a spoiled brat, trying to destroy all of existence when he figures out he's nothing more than a finite doll himself?

I call bullshits on that one.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

And Kuja's not a spoiled brat, trying to destroy all of existence when he figures out he's nothing more than a finite doll himself?

I call bullshits on that one.

Lashing out at something or someone because he was fooled and mistreated all his life doesn't make him a spoiled brat. Firstly because no-one ever spoiled him and secondly because, even though his actions are not justifiable, they still have a reason.

Genesis was pissed off before he ever found out he was degrading because he was jealous of Sephiroth.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, it kinda does.

WAH! I'M GUNNA DIE SO EVERYONE DIES!

Even Zidane remarked at how absurd it was. That's childish and immature, petty thinking. And yes, Kuja was spoiled. He was Garland's Angel of Death who got to wreck havoc all he wanted and go off on his own. He had his own Terran Palace as a hide out, while he played around at the Treno Auction House. Give me a break, Kuja is definitely rich and spoiled.

And you're wrong. Genesis was not pissed off or thinking of rebelling against Shinra until he found out he was an experiment and he was degenerating. I have no idea how you missed that. The whole rebellion against Shinra and the status quo started because he found out that.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

Yeah, it kinda does.

WAH! I'M GUNNA DIE SO EVERYONE DIES!

Even Zidane remarked at how absurd it was. That's childish and immature, petty thinking. And yes, Kuja was spoiled. He was Garland's Angel of Death who got to wreck havoc all he wanted and go off on his own. He had his own Terran Palace as a hide out, while he played around at the Treno Auction House. Give me a break, Kuja is definitely rich and spoiled.

And you're wrong. Genesis was not pissed off or thinking of rebelling against Shinra until he found out he was an experiment and he was degenerating. I have no idea how you missed that. The whole rebellion against Shinra and the status quo started because he found out that.

That is not spoiled. Come on, a person can be immature, childish, petty and/or rich without being spoiled. It has to do with the reason why you do things, and not with particular personnality traits. Garland did not treat Kuja well, he used him for his own purposes.

Genesis being pissed off and rebelling against ShinRa don't have the same cause. He found out he was degrading after the battle against Angeal and Sephiroth. And if you remember clearly, he shows just how much of a spoiled brat he is during that battle, he goes as far as to attack Angeal.

Also, when he meets up with Sephiroth during the Reactor 5 thing, he knows he gonna die and still he's more focused on his jealousy than on the fact that he's about to die.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Uh, no. Garland treated Kuja very well. He gave Kuja his Desert Palace and the freedom to go inbetween worlds. Kuja however rebelled and spat in Garland's eye, doing whatever he wanted. He chose to turn his back on Terra and do his own thing. And yes, that is spoiled, unless you follow a definition of "spoiled" that's out of step with 99% of the general public. Being immature, childish, petty and feeling entitled to everything you desire makes you spoiled. He was a rich, otherworldly genome who was meant to sow the seeds of chaos. He was spoiled.

And what are you talking about? Genesis was pissed at Shinra because of his degeneration. And his fight with Sephiroth in the training room has nothing to do with being spoiled and everything to do with an inferiority complex and being overly competitive. That has nothing to do with being spoiled at all. That has everything to do with having a bad, competitive attitude.

All you've shown is Genesis being competitive and spiteful towards Sephiroth. That's not indicative of a spoiled personality. Genesis wasn't even trying to destroy the planet.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

First off, being spoiled has nothing to do with personnality and is caused by action of a third party.

Second:
Kuja: That voice... Garland!?
Kuja: Did you leave something behind?
Do you think a defect like you could last forever...?
Kuja: ...What? What do you mean!?
I built you to last only until the worthy Genome, Zidane, grew.
It was too dangerous to let you last any longer than that.
Kuja: What are you saying...?
There's a limit on your life... You'll be dead soon...
Even as I die, you'll have died without ever leaving your mark on the world...
(Kuja): ...
Kuja: H-Ha ha ha... What an interesting lie. You're telling me that my life will end soon?
Kuja: Ha ha ha... Nice try, Garland, but I won't fall for your silly tricks... Garland?
(Kuja): ...
(Kuja): Garland!? Answer me!
You were created to destroy. You are a mortal...

That is not treating someone nicely. Giving someone a fancy castle is not treating someone nicely if it's done with a bad intent.

And Genesis problem with Sephiroth has nothing to do with ShinRa, it has to do with the fact that he's incredibly jealous of who Sephiroth is. Genesis has a fan group and is used to getting what he wants, when he wants and how he wants. When he's not given what he wants, he throws a tantrum, just like he did when he was sparring with Sephiroth and Angeal.

Besides, Genesis isn't competitive, he's envious. A competitive person works to get better, Genesis just focus on his jealousy.

 

[Munatik]

Again, consider that Kuja is very similar to Vivi. Vivi learned that he would "stop" and die eventually too, but we instead see a huge contrast in the way he reacted as opposed to Kuja. Instead of lashing out and acting on any horrible and irrational conclusions, he took time to think about and accept the fact that he would die. Even when he did, that did not stop him from wanting to continue to live and help his friends. I don't care how you slice that, Vivi's handling of the matter was the good and correct way, and in comparison Kuja had no excuse.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Bear in mind, Kuja just killed Garland in cold blood, there.

And Garland treated him better than most Genomes considering he gave him a soul, personality, and the freedom to come and go as he pleased. Unless you somehow believe not getting a soul and being confined to Bran Bal is better than having your own soul, palace, freedom, and intelligence. The fact is, is that Kuja was better treated than most. The only genome having a better lot than him, being Zidane since he was the better model and grew up on Gaia like a normal person.

And okay. That's jealousy. You still make fuck all sense, trying to equate that to being spoiled. And his fan club has nothing to do with him, ever. He doesn't associate with them, they're just fans. None of the SOLDIERs associate with their fanclubs. So what are you talking about?

And I guess Genesis working hard to be equal to Sephiroth doesn't equate to him being competitive. Okay.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

Again, consider that Kuja is very similar to Vivi. Vivi learned that he would "stop" and die eventually too, but we instead see a huge contrast in the way he reacted as opposed to Kuja. Instead of lashing out and acting on any horrible and irrational conclusions, he took time to think about and accept the fact that he would die. Even when he did, that did not stop him from wanting to continue to live and help his friends. I don't care how you slice that, Vivi's handling of the matter was the good and correct way, and in comparison Kuja had no excuse.

I agree with that 100%, all I'm saying is that I don't think that Kuja's actions come from being spoiled...

Treating someone right means doing something without expecting a reward or without ulterior motives. Kuja's was built different because that was exactly what Garland needed.

And as for Genesis' fanclub, it doesn't matter if he associates with them, he knows they exist and that's probably enough to inflate his already over-inflated ego even more.

 

[Makoeyes987]

So Kuja wanting to conquer two worlds (and betray his maker) because he could as a superior being, manipulating the Black Mages because he wasn't a soulless doll like them, gallivanting around Treno's richest section as he saw fit, and then wanting to destroy the universe cause he was mortal doesn't make him spoiled? All while being able to lounge around in his own private desert palace that was given to him?

But Genesis being competitive and jealous does?

Okay!

The motives behind the treatment are irrelevant. Kuja was treated very well as Garland's Angel of Death because he was the one who would enact his plan. That has fuck all to do with whether or not he was treated well. It's a statement on the treatment, not the motive.

Would be nice if you could give some actual, tangible evidence to Genesis having a massive ego from his fan club instead of you just saying so. By your logic Sephiroth and Angeal also have massive egos. That makes no sense.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

He's rich so he's spoiled? I don't see the connection.

Again, being spoiled has nothing to do with personnality. It's something that comes from a third party, hence the mention to his fan club. ShinRa probably let him get away with lots of stuff, even Angeal seems to have tons of patience when he comes to Genesis...

 

[Munatik]

I agree with that 100%, all I'm saying is that I don't think that Kuja's actions come from being spoiled...

But you were making the argument that his actions came about because of his fate or some perceived mistreatment. I'm saying that in comparison to Vivi who actually does share those elements, that it's hard not to see that Kuja was just throwing a megalomaniacal tantrum, i.e. acting like a spoiled brat about it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Kuja's personality is spoiled rotten due to his sense of entitlement and him being expectant of everything he wants. He sees himself as superior because he believes himself to be, and furthermore, he looks down upon all others.

If that's not spoiled, then you don't know the definition of the word. Because Garland CREATED him as a powerful being and gave him all that he wanted and freedom to be a terror to Gaia, he thus was spoiled and became a terrible being. That's spoiling. Hence, Kuja is spoiled.

Saying Genesis is spoiled because he has a fanclub makes absolutely no sense. Especially when the real spoiled SOLDIER of Shinra would be Sephiroth. You make no damn sense trying to attribute Genesis as being spoiled because he was jealous. Jealousy is not being spoiled.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

But you were making the argument that his actions came about because of his fate or some perceived mistreatment. I'm saying that in comparison to Vivi who actually does share those elements, that it's hard not to see that Kuja was just throwing a megalomaniacal tantrum, i.e. acting like a spoiled brat about it.

People do a lot of things for a lot of reasons and the more immediate answer is not necessarily the right one. Kuja grew up with an evil person, Vivi didn't. As far as I can tell he was supposed to be a mindless tool.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Kuja was always a prick, even before he knew he was mortal. You can't attribute Kuja's bad behavior to anything else but him being spoiled and having a massive ego and entitlement complex. There is no other answer.

And Vivi was never supposed to be a mindless doll. As the Black Mage prototype he was given more sentience and lifespan than his less fortunate mass produced brethren.

 

[megas_sephiroth]

I know people who have a huge ego and entitlement complex who were never spoiled. You're forgetting that some people are just plain stupid.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, but Kuja IS spoiled as he was created as a special Genome and given special attention from Garland, magical power and he even has the wealth and freedom to do whatever he pleases. Considering he moonlights as a rich Treno playboy weapons dealer, while also plotting the conquering of two worlds, makes him fit the role of spoiled. And Kuja isn't stupid. He's immature and spoiled. There's nothing stupid about him.