So what's canon now?

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Since the Remake is going to add and take away (for example, people have been suggesting Avalanche is going to be less responsible for the carnage of their terrorist bombing campaign), what is going to be canon, the FFVIIOG or FFVIIR? Or will we now have two canon universes?

This could potentially be somewhat annoying when all the new fans who haven't played the OG come in thinking FFVIIR is the definitive version.

 

[Shademp]

In a franchise like Star Wars, there were declarations from official sources when the old canon was written out to make room for Disney's expanded Star Wars universe. With Star Wars, what is- and what isn't canon is always a topic that the writers and owners of Star Wars care about.

I feel that the same does not apply with Final Fantasy VII and Square Enix. The word "canon" is rarely ever used by the developers or mentioned in guide books, if my memory serves me correctly. Ergo why I'm skeptical that Square will ever even bother to officially divide the FFVII franchise into multiple canons/universes in a clear-cut way. They'll leave that work up to the fans, while Square will continue to publish guide books that acknowledge entries in the franchise without bringing out the "Canon Y/N Hammer".

Certain canonicity may end up more overt than others as we learn more (like if we learn definitively that the Compilation titles didn't happen and will not happen in the FFVIIR universe) but my conviction remains that Square prioritizes artistic freedom over "canonical chains".

 

[ForceStealer]

The most recent thing is always the most canon.

Japanese storytellers, or at least Square, seem to care a lot less about that sort of thing than western fans do.

 

[Tashasaurous]

In a franchise like Star Wars, there were declarations from official sources when the old canon was written out to make room for Disney's expanded Star Wars universe. With Star Wars, what is- and what isn't canon is always a topic that the writers and owners of Star Wars care about.

I feel that the same does not apply with Final Fantasy VII and Square Enix. The word "canon" is rarely ever used by the developers or mentioned in guide books, if my memory serves me correctly. Ergo why I'm skeptical that Square will ever even bother to officially divide the FFVII franchise into multiple canons/universes in a clear-cut way. They'll leave that work up to the fans, while Square will continue to publish guide books that acknowledge entries in the franchise without bringing out the "Canon Y/N Hammer".

Certain canonicity may end up more overt than others as we learn more (like if we learn definitively that the Compilation titles didn't happen and will not happen in the FFVIIR universe) but my conviction remains that Square prioritizes artistic freedom over "canonical chains".

If they decide to get rid of the Compilation, I will not be happy. They already had the Last Order OVA as non-canon, but I refuse to allow the Compilation of FFVII to be like it never happened at all. But that's just me.

Then again, despite Square Enix never thought of the canon thing before, there's always a first time for everything.

 

[ForceStealer]

The discs aren't going anywhere. It will never be like it never happened.

 

[Roger]

I imagine the dialogue with Shinra will clue us in pretty definitely whether their years long war with AVALANCHE in Before Crisis happened in the Remake's continuity or not. Probably not. Everything else will remain more up to debate.

 

[Theozilla]

I imagine the dialogue with Shinra will clue us in pretty definitely whether their years long war with AVALANCHE in Before Crisis happened in the Remake's continuity or not. Probably not. Everything else will remain more up to debate.

Well even without BC canon, Avalanche existing before Barret's group was canon even from the OG.

 

[Tashasaurous]

The discs aren't going anywhere. It will never be like it never happened.

Hope you're right.

I imagine the dialogue with Shinra will clue us in pretty definitely whether their years long war with AVALANCHE in Before Crisis happened in the Remake's continuity or not. Probably not. Everything else will remain more up to debate.

Perhaps FFVII Remake is in a universe of it's own and Square Enix will make the decision on whether to continue the current universe's canon or move on to create a new canon universe for the Remake.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

I don't think it'd be out of character for SE to pick and choose what's canon, even within a single title. So for example, details of Aerith and Zack's relationship might be the same as in Crisis Core, but they'll pretend like Genesis never happened if we're lucky.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

In my original post I wasn't thinking about the various Compilation additions, just OG canon v Remake Canon. For example, in the OG, the Loveless Ave. area where Cloud first meets Aerith has been badly impacted by the reactor bombing. I don't see any sign of that in the Remake.

"They'll leave that work up to the fans," - quite so, exactly why I asked the question.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The Remake of FFVII isn't a title in the Compilation of FFVII. Because FFVII wasn't a title in the Compilation of FFVII either.

It's a remake of FFVII.

Which means, they aren't going to be including elements or tie-ins to the Compilation because... FFVII wasn't doing that either.

It's just FFVII. That doesn't mean they're negating the works or continuity of what was in the Compilation. That would make no sense whatsoever nor would S-E want to do that because they still market and sell material based on the Compilation.

They literally are selling OTWTS as a novelization as of this year.

Tetsuya Nomura : Concerning Final Fantasy VII Remake, which is a title loaded with a lot of mystery for now, it will be different from the original Final Fantasy VII. If we make a compilation, these games will hardly have an overall coherence. It will be difficult because there is no continuity between the Compilation and the Remake for the moment.

This is what Nomura actually said about whether or not the FFVII Remake would connect to the FFVII Compilation at all, back in 2017. "For the moment," there is no continuity between them.

"For the moment" is a strange modifier as if they aren't sure or are hedging on whether or not to do it. But ofr overal coherency and consistency to Final Fantasy VII, they aren't concerned with connecting it to the Compilation. That's not the same as negating the Compilation of FFVII. That's just making the remake focused on being a remake of FFVII.

Hell, Nomura technically contradicted himself in that statement by utilizing the Compilation of FFVII's re-design of the SOLDIER emblem. They're even showing Sephiroth with a fucking black wing which... Once again, was only technically shown in Compilation of FFVII games (or Kingdom Hearts if you want to be technical.)

I wouldn't be surprised if more easter eggs or subtle references to the Compilation will appear in the game. But no, it's not going to feature or be made a direct member of the Compilation because it's just supposed to be FFVII.

 

[FFShinra]

When I saw that Cosmo Canyon dialogue for the first time, I always thought Barret was speaking about himself in the third person. Mostly because he suddenly goes into first person without really transitioning or explaining who the original person was.

Of course, the Japanese might be clearer in meaning.

 

[Makoeyes987]

When I saw that Cosmo Canyon dialogue for the first time, I always thought Barret was speaking about himself in the third person. Mostly because he suddenly goes into first person without really transitioning or explaining who the original person was.

Of course, the Japanese might be clearer in meaning.

Barret was not a scholar of Planetary Life, though. So it couldn't have been him.

He's aware of it, but that's not what he studied at all.

 

[Theozilla]

In my original post I wasn't thinking about the various Compilation additions, just OG canon v Remake Canon. For example, in the OG, the Loveless Ave. area where Cloud first meets Aerith has been badly impacted by the reactor bombing. I don't see any sign of that in the Remake.

Maybe it has been impacted but we just haven't seen it yey. It's probably still too early to judge, since what we've seen is still pretty limited in terms of the entire scene.

The Remake of FFVII isn't a title in the Compilation of FFVII. Because FFVII wasn't a title in the Compilation of FFVII either.

It's a remake of FFVII.

Which means, they aren't going to be including elements or tie-ins to the Compilation because... FFVII wasn't doing that either.

It's just FFVII. That doesn't mean they're negating the works or continuity of what was in the Compilation. That would make no sense whatsoever nor would S-E want to do that because they still market and sell material based on the Compilation.

They literally are selling OTWTS as a novelization as of this year.




This is what Nomura actually said about whether or not the FFVII Remake would connect to the FFVII Compilation at all, back in 2017. "For the moment," there is no continuity between them.

"For the moment" is a strange modifier as if they aren't sure or are hedging on whether or not to do it. But ofr overal coherency and consistency to Final Fantasy VII, they aren't concerned with connecting it to the Compilation. That's not the same as negating the Compilation of FFVII. That's just making the remake focused on being a remake of FFVII.

Hell, Nomura technically contradicted himself in that statement by utilizing the Compilation of FFVII's re-design of the SOLDIER emblem. They're even showing Sephiroth with a fucking black wing which... Once again, was only technically shown in Compilation of FFVII games (or Kingdom Hearts if you want to be technical.)

I wouldn't be surprised if more easter eggs or subtle references to the Compilation will appear in the game. But no, it's not going to feature or be made a direct member of the Compilation because it's just supposed to be FFVII.

Also the comment that Nomura was specifically responding to was an inquiry about a HD Compilation game port/bundle, like the Kingdom Hearts ReMix releases.

 

[FFShinra]

He may not be Bugenhagen but he did know enough to understand the Mako Reactors were draining the planet. Which is more than the average joe.

I always thought he went to CC to learn....mostly as an excuse to attack Shinra, which was his big problem in the first place, as Cait Sith points out.

 

[Tashasaurous]

In my original post I wasn't thinking about the various Compilation additions, just OG canon v Remake Canon. For example, in the OG, the Loveless Ave. area where Cloud first meets Aerith has been badly impacted by the reactor bombing. I don't see any sign of that in the Remake.

"They'll leave that work up to the fans," - quite so, exactly why I asked the question.

Maybe they decided that Loveless wasn't worth in keeping from the OG. I mean, not much is known about the play apart from what Genesis quoted, but it didn't mean much of anything, I have to admit. I think they thought that there's no point in adding it if it's just a minor spot with no connections of anything in the story at all and that's actually minor compared.

The Remake of FFVII isn't a title in the Compilation of FFVII. Because FFVII wasn't a title in the Compilation of FFVII either.

It's a remake of FFVII.

Which means, they aren't going to be including elements or tie-ins to the Compilation because... FFVII wasn't doing that either.

It's just FFVII. That doesn't mean they're negating the works or continuity of what was in the Compilation. That would make no sense whatsoever nor would S-E want to do that because they still market and sell material based on the Compilation.

They literally are selling OTWTS as a novelization as of this year.

This is what Nomura actually said about whether or not the FFVII Remake would connect to the FFVII Compilation at all, back in 2017. "For the moment," there is no continuity between them.

"For the moment" is a strange modifier as if they aren't sure or are hedging on whether or not to do it. But ofr overal coherency and consistency to Final Fantasy VII, they aren't concerned with connecting it to the Compilation. That's not the same as negating the Compilation of FFVII. That's just making the remake focused on being a remake of FFVII.

Hell, Nomura technically contradicted himself in that statement by utilizing the Compilation of FFVII's re-design of the SOLDIER emblem. They're even showing Sephiroth with a fucking black wing which... Once again, was only technically shown in Compilation of FFVII games (or Kingdom Hearts if you want to be technical.)

I wouldn't be surprised if more easter eggs or subtle references to the Compilation will appear in the game. But no, it's not going to feature or be made a direct member of the Compilation because it's just supposed to be FFVII.

Good point. I always felt that the Compilation was canon though, due to how it answered humanity's survival in the OG.

Barret was not a scholar of Planetary Life, though. So it couldn't have been him.

He's aware of it, but that's not what he studied at all.

Yeah, he was mainly focusing on getting revenge on ShinRa, saving the world from it and taking care of Marlene.

 

[Makoeyes987]

By the way, I totally love how Sephiroth also has the Compilation SOLDIER symbol on his inner built, and is now inexplicably rocking the second outer belt from his outfit for Dissidia.

Nomura literally isn't making sense at this point. He's showing Sephiroth in the FFVII remake with a jet black wing over his right shoulder, ala Advent Children. And the only other SOLDIERs shown making wings over their shoulder with normal bodies were in Crisis Core. In reality, Sephiroth only got his "one-wing" upon evolution with a new body as Safer Sephiroth, and then in AC via his rebirth. He's also shown using the Compilation of FFVII SOLDIER logo on Cloud and Sephiroth. And inexplicably, Sephiroth's got his belt from Dissidia.

That's some real fine "coherence" there.

 

[Kai Schulen]

But Barret's sunglasses at night makes sense?

 

[Theozilla]

But Barret's sunglasses at night makes sense?

Actually as others have stated in the past, they can make sense if they are meant to reference the glasses firearm users wear to protect their eyes from flashes/sparks of the firearm usage.

 

[Girl Named Captain]

Ah yes, Tetsuya Nomura, a designer long noted for his strict adherence to whatever makes practical sense

 

[Kai Schulen]

Actually as others have stated in the past, they can make sense if they are meant to reference the glasses firearm users wear to protect their eyes from flashes/sparks of the firearm usage.

I find it weird that one bit of real life logic made its way to a fantasy world. XD


It makes me wonder if it's possible to have a gun arm in real life though.

 

[hleV]

isn't making sense

You're throwing that a lot. What would make sense? He can have Compilation logos and aesthetics all he likes. Cloud's uniform isn't clearly purple in the Remake, is it? That doesn't really mean or imply anything except that it's different than OG.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well my original point was that Nomura saying there's no "continuity" between the FFVIIR and the Compilation of FFVII due to "coherence," is not really true, because with Cloud and Sephiroth, he's made several direct design decisions that show continuity in their appearance. And appearance says a lot. Specifically, the SOLDIER emblem, Sephiroth having a jet-black wing ala AC and the SOLDIERs shown in CC, and then there's the Buster Sword's design that looks similar to Crisis Core's design of it.

And now Sephiroth suddenly is wearing the belt he had in Dissidia.

So yeah, it's just kinda random and contradictory. What would make sense and align with what he said, would be to actually go by their look from FFVII proper.

...In fact, now that I remember, Cloud's SOLDIER outfit being black is another thing from the Compilation as well. It was never black. Cloud's SOLDIER outfit was dark blue or purple. Until the Compilation made SOLDIER 1st Class outfits black.

 

[hleV]

I don't consider him using some Compilation designs as including Compilation into Remake's continuity.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

There's coherence and then there's Easter Eggs.