SOLDIER Pride.

[Cat Rage Room]

This concept is talked about a lot in Crisis Core, but playing through the game I've never really had a good grasp on what it is. It seems to be a fundamentally different type of 'pride' one might have serving the regular Shinra Army. At first I compared it to a sort of knightly noble code, which is strange considering SOLDIER is a relatively new organization.

So what is SOLDIER pride and honor? Pride at being strong? Better than the Army? A warrior culture? This pride is strong enough to entirely drive Angeal, Zack, and Genesis to their ends, but exactly what is it?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It's a stupid, random idea is what it is.

But, uh, to answer the question, I think it's something Angeal probably came up with. He seems to be the only one to talk about this concept. He had a grand vision of what it meant to be a SOLDIER -- as some kind of knightly station, it seems. Why exactly, I don't know.

Maybe SOLDIER was highly regarded as the instruments who ended the previous international war.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

What international war? SOLDIER was developed solely and during the Wutai War, yeah?

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Would it make sense if it was, for most SOLDIERs, the sort of pride you see in real life modern special forces members? That "best of the best and you better know it" feel that (especially but not entirely in fiction) folks like Navy SEALS or Marin Corps Force Recon give off. If so, Angeal definitely takes it to a more noble, honor driven place and passes it down to Zack.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

What international war? SOLDIER was developed solely and during the Wutai War, yeah?

No, there was a war before all that, when Shin-Ra was still a weapons developer. They developed SOLDIER and manufactured materia, leading to a rapid end to that war. The populace had also become dependent on the mako energy Shin-Ra had begun producing at this time, all of which resulted in Shin-Ra becoming a global superpower.

Remember that Deepground began as a hospital for SOLDIER? It was there before Genesis and Angeal were even born.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

No, there was a war before all that, when Shin-Ra was still a weapons developer. They developed SOLDIER and manufactured materia, leading to a rapid end to that war. The populace had also become dependent on the mako energy Shin-Ra had begun producing at this time, all of which resulted in Shin-Ra becoming a global superpower.

Remember that Deepground began as a hospital for SOLDIER? It was there before Genesis and Angeal were even born.

I thought the concept of an earlier, international war was early scenario material, not stuff that actually made it into the background canon.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Keep in mind FFVII is a Japanese game and honor is a much bigger deal because of that.

Shin-Ra itself seems to uphold SOLDIER over the other branches of the military as well. Sephiroth was used as a poster boy for SOLDIER and SOLDIER itself was seen a dream job (or Cloud at least saw it that way). I would say SOLDIER is the organization Shin-Ra uses to how how noble of a company it is. And then Angeal and Genesis find out all that is a lie.

Which in manga/anime is often flowed by major brain breakage/personality disintegration etc.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I thought the concept of an earlier, international war was early scenario material, not stuff that actually made it into the background canon.

It's part of the canon, yes. The original SOLDIERs probably only had mako infusion. Sephiroth would have been the first Jenova-type SOLDIER.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I NEED A SOURCE, BRO. Interesting I guess???

 

[Ghost X]

I wouldn't think just because an organisation is new that this is a valid argument against its members having a particularly strong amount of pride in it. Haven't played the game, but sounds like a generic form of loyalty to me that is being described.

 

[AvecAloes]

I always took it as pride stemming from being part of something elite, something that not everyone who tried would succeed at doing. I interpreted Zack's pride at bein part of SOLDIER as part of his growth and development as a character. He was a happy little puppy, thrilled to be running with the big dogs for whom he had immense respect for (Angeal, Genesis, and Sephiroth, of course), recognizing that even while he was part of their elite group, he was still beneath them. I think that each character interpreted SOLDIER pride in a different way. Angeal was always honor bound and upright, and the way he touted SOLDIER pride read accordingly. Sephiroth took pride in his abilities, in his sense of being able to do more than others (and upon learning why he was, in fact, unique, he snapped, perhaps because he realized it was not of his own merit that he was that good?), Genesis...Genesis was a rather haughty and seemingly insecure character. I interpreted any sense of SOLDIER pride within him to be the constant struggle to make sure he was better, and of course, he also shattered and, well, you know.

Don't mind my half-asleep/typing this out on my phone post, if I come back tomorrow morning and realize how stupid it is I shall edit accordingly.

 

[jazzflower92]

I am thinking SOLDIER pride is some sorta Final Fantasy 7 version of chilvary.

Although I think that SOLDIER pride appeals to the ideals that a SOLDIER must have.I think the ideal is to fight for a noble and good cause with honor.I in my opinion think its a little ironic since they are working for SHINRA which is the opposite of everything Angeal stood for.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I NEED A SOURCE, BRO. Interesting I guess???

Source of Shin-Ra's history is the company's profile from pg. 56 of the FFVII Ultimania Omega. That's where it speaks of a global war, people becoming dependent on mako energy, and the company making use of materia wielded by SOLDIERs who had been showered in mako (no mention of Jenova's cells yet; just mako) to end the war.

It says that following the war, the company controlled the world because of people's dependence on the mako energy. According to Case of Shin-Ra, this was already the state of affairs in 1987, several years before the Wutai War began (1992).

One source for Deepground beginning as a SOLDIER medical facility, by the way, is the 10th Anniversary Ultimania:

http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/220/final-fantasy-vii-series-terms-and-definitions/

Following Genesis's birth, the facility began to be used for inhumane experimentation involving his genes instead. Here's one source for that:

http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/340/crisis-core-ultimania-scenario-qa/

The first genetically altered child born in Deepground was Rosso, and she was born in 1985. As Sephiroth was born between 1977 and 1982, he couldn't have been the first SOLDIER, much less the first in an army needing Deepground to be built as a medical facility specifically for them.

Deepground must have been built during the previous war for the original line of SOLDIERs. Recall also that DG SOLDIERs don't have Jenova cells (e.g. Weiss's body was a suitable host for Omega not only because it was powerful, but because it also lacked the taint of Jenova and stagnant Lifestream).

 

[ForceStealer]

The Wutai War was over building a Mako reactor, so it had to have been after Shinra became the electric company. So before that, we know they were a weapons manufacturer, so they were presumably building those weapons for somebody

 

[I Am Not Me]

I always thought it refers to pride of being... a SOLDIER before being a "monster". I'm not entirely sure, but Angeal was really hung up on it. When he got Zack to kill him, he also talked about being able to keep his pride by Zack killing him.

Maybe it's his humanity? Pride of being strong, a SOLDIER, but also human and not a monster?

 

[eleamaya]

I thought of the pride literally in our modern world, not in FF7.

Sometimes long war could make soldier being insane, or feel superior, and then kill the civilization in the occupied country like what Sephiroth did in Nibelheim. If it’s not in war, what if the country (I mean the government) ruled as dictator like Shin-Ra did? Do the soldiers defend the government who pay them or choose the oppressed people? Well, soldiers could be dilemma even most of them still choose to be government’s side, but a true soldier keep fight for his belief of which one is right and wrong. That’s the soldier honor.

At least, that's what I captured from Zack's heroic death. From a young boy who had ever dreamt to join the military in every country in this world. I dunno about Angie and Genny.

 

[Danseru-kun]

Yeah it's never been elaborated what is it, but only Angeal takes it seriously. I think Shinra has a Soldier oath there somewhere about being the best, to the interest of the people, or even loyalty to Shinra or something. But again like in real life, only a few takes this to heart. In school we recite "Oath to the Nation" every week for ten years and after that people forget about it and I think I'm the only one in our school who takes that seriously.