Sony's... Surprisingly Well-Conceived VENOM Films

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#2
Care to just make this a Spidey films expanded universe thread?

We can entitle it, "That franchise Sony Pictures is determined to fail at building, even though it should be the easiest thing they've ever done."
 

Tetsujin

Ready for the mosh pit, shaka brah
AKA
Tets
#11
Also because there were news earlier that Amy Pascal seemed to clarify this takes place in the MCU, it still doesn't

This whole endeavour still seems weird and ill-advised to me. :P

"Let's build a Spider-Man universe without Spider-Man! Or maybe he's in there. But not the one from the MCU. Or maybe it's Tom Holland but still a parallel universe version of the MCU Spidey. We'll see!"

The fuck are you even doing
 
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#13
It means they're going to make it as close as possible to the mcu with nods, Easter eggs, etc, without Disney getting in their face about it, to try and leech off their success, from people who don't pay attention to studios.
 
#20
Would have been nice to see Venom. On the other hand the trailer might have been purposeful by only briefly showing the black "goo". I'm getting the impression that the symbiote has been removed from Eddie Brock and that he's experiencing withdrawal symptoms. If the plot is about how Eddie's life is looking without the symbiote, then I am concerned. We want to see Venom more than we want to see Eddie Brock. Hopefully my suspicions about the plot are incorrect.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
#21
Given the comics that the story is based on, the little bits we saw and heard in the trailer have me quite excited. I recently went back and read through Lethal Protector and Planet of the Symbiotes to try and get a feel for what this would be about.

A basic loose overview is Eddie Brock leaving everything behind and trying to start a new life as Venom in California without a place to really belong, and trying to be a hero even if he's more violent about how he goes about it. We get the big bad evil corporation experimenting with Symbiotes and using him as an unwilling test subject to create others that he has to stop. There's also a part after that where he wonders if the Symbiote is changing who he is and they split up, causing it to scream out in pain — triggering an invasion. During the invasion it ends up in him realizing that they are who they are together, and rejoining with the Symbiote to kick ass, stop the invasion, (and possibly also Carnage).

Given that we haven't been shown what they look like as Venom, I'm expecting that's because they want to get the VFX nailed down before showing it off, and something like this also involves LOTS of other Symbiotes, so I think that it hit all the right notes as a teaser for the material it's based off of.

The real call will still be when we get a proper trailer, but it's definitely the right tone and the right setup so far.





X :neo:
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#22
Even with that in mind, I just don't feel like this is going to work. It needs more set-up than what they've given the concept (you can't introduce the symbiote and then more symbiotes in the same movie without diluting the significance of the original), and if this particular teaser is supposed to give an overall feel for the movie as a whole, I expect a flop.

It may even be a good flop to us fans of the comics, but a flop 'twill be.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
#23
Even with that in mind, I just don't feel like this is going to work. It needs more set-up than what they've given the concept (you can't introduce the symbiote and then more symbiotes in the same movie without diluting the significance of the original), and if this particular teaser is supposed to give an overall feel for the movie as a whole, I expect a flop.

It may even be a good flop to us fans of the comics, but a flop 'twill be.
I'd gladly disagree.

I feel like the story in Planet of the Symbiotes really hits at the core of what makes the Venom Symbiote different than the other ones (as it goes into mountains of detail about how it's different than its bretheren in how it wants to BOND with a host, rather than use them up like a husk). Take that along with the starting framework given by Lethal Protector of Eddie leaving NYC and not really feeling like he has a place and trying to be a hero in his own way in SF, and I think that there's PLENTY of opportunity for differentiating the Symbiote, without needing to linger on the direct Spider-Man-based origin story. On top of that, you've got the setup of the evil corporation subjecting him to experiments and creating other Symbiotes spawned from Venom to dive into a story centered all around the Venom Symbiote and its emotions (the psychic scream is what triggers the others to come find it), especially because Planet of the Symbiotes ties that all together with him firmly establishing THEIR identity as Venom.

I honestly felt more hesitant about it before reading those arcs and trying to think about how you could make a film work given a questionable level of allowable connection to Spider-Man.* Given the things that you hear in Tom Hardy's voice over in the teaser, it seems like it's hitting on all those big points that I think can define Venom outside of just his relationship with Spidey, which is also the trajectory that those comics take to establish Venom to stand on his own. It helps to paint Venom as a cosmic entity that's more than just a muscle-bound black Spider-Man, which I think is probably the most important thing.

*since there're various levels of Spider-Man not/maybe/yes being in the film (not connected to the MCU or adjuncts to the film like Agents of SHIELD or Maybe we'll see them cross over). I'm assuming no until hearing otherwise, but it'd be rad if there was a loose reference to the costume in Infinity War, or we get some other connection to Spidey & the suit just in Venom.

Either way, I think that this film can work really well given just those two storylines, without needing to be an origin film, but still establishing Venom's origin.


tl;dr – the black suit origin feels like it establishes Venom & Spider-Man's relationship, but these two stories feel like they they establish the larger Venom-as-his-own-anti-hero origins that lets the character stand on its own – which is the biggest and most important thing it needs to be able to do.




X :neo:
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#24
As always, I appreciate your eternal optimism. :monster:

But like I said, whether it's a good film isn't going to be enough to make it work. Venom hasn't even managed to get out from under the shadow of being a Spidey derivative in the comics (no matter how much Marvel wants to pretend he has), so he sure hasn't done so with general audiences whose only knowledge (if any) of Venom will be from the disappointing "Spider-Man 3" movie and/or the 90s Spidey cartoon on FOX.

He was a Spidey derivative then and he's a Spidey derivative now. If they're really adapting a storyline where the villains are then derivative of him ... we have a recipe for an "I Don't Care" cocktail from moviegoers at large.

That's just this one lifelong Marvel nerd's prediction. :monster:
 
#25
I think Venom can stand on his own two feet and make a blockbuster movie with the story lines that are available, but not with that trailer. If you see signs the story could be potentially awesome based on that trailer, well, fantastic. For people like myself, outside the comic bubble, it's like an average person looking at a piece of abstract art, unable to read the signs it is communicating. It looks average at best.

I'm not chucking this on the garbage yet though, I just want to see more. Fire the marketing department and bring in whoever is handling Deadpool :awesome:. Marketing folk should pitch to the audience like a writer (etc) would pitch their idea to a movie studio. Why do I want to see this film? What makes it so special?
 
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