Spam discussion thread

[Max Payne]

Also the 'no because we said so'/'no because we've discussed it before' attitude is grating. I'm not saying it's been unjustified every time you've said it, but you have to get used to new members not knowing what's happened before. Yeah it sucks to have to give the reason over and over and over...but that's part of staffing a decent sized forum/dealing with the public in any position that requires you to. I've gone thirty pages with username. Effing username. Quadruple that and you'll have the number of rounds I've gone with L/IP and Dee. I know what it's like, I see where you're coming from, but handling it this way actually led to way more drama on ACF than the actual spam forum issues ever did.

The problem is, it's not new members doing this. It's the same people, over and over.

 

[Atticus]

The fact we have a Chit Chat thread, are implimenting teams, have a General discussion section, and plenty of clubs and also Member groups pretty much shoots the need for a spam section in relation to bringing user together dude. We've got enough community and bonding. That point is moot.

One question about that... would teams have spam sections within them?

The problem is, it's not new members doing this. It's the same people, over and over.

Suteki? Me? We just joined. Every time someone joins, they ask the same question. Its a good question.

 

[Makoeyes987]

No, they would not.

 

[Ⓐaron]

The problem is, it's not new members doing this. It's the same people, over and over.

Suteki isn't "the same people over and over." In fact, she just registered last week. Gabriel isn't "the same people over and over." So no, it's not "the same people, over and over."

I guess my posts refuting the needs for spam got ignored now?

You haven't responded to any of the posts I quoted above as arguments in favour of the spam section with anything other than hypotheticals and sophisms that essentially boil down to "No because I said so".

 

[CK]

I'd say that the majority of staff are the ones who disagree most strongly with it, but tbf a fair few members are wary of it too because they've all bandwagoned into the spam = dramarama van.

Just helping you keep track of it there.

I thought as much.

Off to play Uncharted, have fun arguing until a mod gets pissed off and just closes this thread.

 

[Megatron]

I love the 30 crosspost pileups that keep happening in this thread

 

[A]

I love the 30 crosspost pileups that keep happening in this thread

:drama:

That's basically it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The "hypotheticals" are the answers. You're saying it'll bring users together and shit and be a way of bonding but we already HAVE ways of doing that, making it unnecessary.

Furthermore, we believe it's a distraction from the main forum and focus of the site. You THINK it won't be and that's your opinion. However, that's not ours.

There's nothing else to refute.

EDIT: Here, I'll quote.

The best spam sections can bring together a level of bonding that other forums on the don't really manage. It's hard to explain unless you've participated in one, but basically, imagine the Chit Chat thread, except to about ten times the extent. While visitor messages and such can somewhat replicate the experience to a lesser extent, there's something about being able to rant about your shit day to everyone in a forum where no one has to say anything on-topic that just can't really be duplicated in other settings.

We've implimented teams, have General Chat, Chit Chat, and Member Groups. We have MORE than enough avenues and channels for bringing members together and bonding. We don't need to add a spam section.

I think it's possible to run a forum with a section like that and still not have any of it spill over to the rest of the board, but for the most part that didn't happen on ACF because for the most part the staff there were incompetent. The staff here are quite a bit more competent, but they also don't want a spam section which makes it harder

That's your opinion. We don't feel that way. We feel the way things are, are just fine.

really though, I don't see what harm a section for off-topic posting with otherwise the same rules as the rest of the forum could do to the activity here.

Again, that's your opinion. We do, and don't feel the need to open that can of worms because the cons outweigh the pro's.

Another factor that most don't usually consider is that in a community setting, people aren't always going to talk about something within a specific topic. IRL or otherwise. Conversations branch off and twist around, etc. That's actually a big part of how people get to know each other. Without some sort of community outlet, there quite simply won't be much of a community.

Then they can chat or go to PM. Or use Chit Chat. This is a forum, not a chat service. We have more than enough avenues and venues for members to meet, bond, and chat. And if they aren't enough, let them just go off the forum and CHAT in real time.

Yeah, one big problem with the chit chat thread is that it's difficult to keep conversations about multiple topics going at the same time, so if one person wants to post lolcat pictures and another person wants to talk about tits then they're working at cross-purposes. It also means it's harder for people to find posts they really want to read since the thread isn't really sorted by subject.

Then just go chat one on one via MSN or PM. We don't need to be a chat service here. We're an FF discussion forum NOT a chat relay service.


There.

 

[Alex]

:drama:

That's basically it.

Except not really. It's more just like a heated debate.

 

[Max Payne]

Suteki isn't "the same people over and over." In fact, she just registered last week. Gabriel isn't "the same people over and over." So no, it's not "the same people, over and over."

You haven't responded to any of the posts I quoted above as arguments in favour of the spam section with anything other than hypotheticals.

Gabriel has been here for a while, and Nikki was told to read the previous threads about the matter. Is it really so hard to use the damn search function, instead of making thread after thread, when they've seen people say these things have been discussed?

And you have provided nothing other than your opinion in favor of spam.

 

[Vixenish]

I guess my posts refuting the needs for spam got ignored now?

Sorry, those were posted while I was typing, so I missed some stuff...

 

[Atticus]

No, they would not.

Then I guess this will just keep going on in this thread then.

Gabriel has been here for a while, and Nikki was told to read the previous threads about the matter. Is it really so hard to use the damn search function, instead of making thread after thread, when they've seen people say these things have been discussed?

Why wouldn't you just make less work for everyone and make a stickied thread on the issue and your stance?

 

[Ⓐaron]

The "hypotheticals" are the answers. You're saying it'll bring users together and shit and be a way of bonding but we already HAVE ways of doing that, making it unnecessary.

Except that those ways of bonding aren't working as effectively as an off-topic forum would work for reasons I've already pointed out in my previous posts, which you haven't responded to and which I'm becoming increasingly convinced you haven't even read.

Furthermore, we believe it's a distraction from the main forum and focus of the site. You THINK it won't be and that's your opinion. However, that's not ours.

Your opinion is not a valid reason to prevent trying something on a trial basis (exactly as you're willing to adopt teams, incidentally) when much of the member base does not share that opinion.

Gabriel has been here for a while, and Nikki was told to read the previous threads about the matter. Is it really so hard to use the damn search function, instead of making thread after thread, when they've seen people say these things have been discussed?

Gabriel didn't make any threads about a spam section until recently, and it has only been "discussed" in that staff have broadly dismissed the idea without listening to any reasoning anyone presents in favour of it.

And you have provided nothing other than your opinion in favor of spam.

I have provided plenty of solid reasoning in favour of spam. It is not my fault that you seem to simply skip over every post I make containing reasoning.

 

[Vixenish]

The problem is, it's not new members doing this. It's the same people, over and over.

Notice how I picked the three names from ACF that made up more than half of the issues in the ffs section? It was the same three there too. Username just started doing it as a noob and never stopped.
And yeah, using the search function to find that is a pain in the ass. You had actually posted in those threads and took your time finding them. It's even harder when you aren't familiar with a forum and have to go find it. That's part of why forums have staff and an ffs section. To direct members to where the answers to their questions are. If you don't want to have to do that put it in the faq and link members to it.

 

[Cookie Monster]

"No because I said so".

Tbh, it's "No because he said so."

Until you guys change his mind, this is all futile.

 

[Max Payne]

I have provided plenty of solid reasoning in favour of spam. It is not my fault that you seem to simply skip over every post I make containing reasoning.

It still boils down to your opinion, you still haven't really provided concrete evidence that it would be good for the community.

 

[A]

What's the point of keeping this thread open when no one will reach an agreement?

 

[Max Payne]

Because if we closed it there'd be even more of a shitstorm from people.

 

[Alex]

So that they can keep debating until an agreement is reached. We've had quite enough prematurely closing threads tonight tbh. Closing threads is dramatic.

 

[Hawkeye.]

What's the point of keeping this thread open when no one will reach an agreement?

Because it's entertaining to watch.

 

[Atticus]

Furthermore, we believe it's a distraction from the main forum and focus of the site

How?

Then they can chat or go to PM. Or use Chit Chat. This is a forum, not a chat service. We have more than enough avenues and venues for members to meet, bond, and chat. And if they aren't enough, let them just go off the forum and CHAT in real time.

I've discovered forums to be so much better than msn or pms... those are only one on one discussions but in forums, anyone can jump in.... plus you get an awesome avatar, title, and a signature.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Why are they not effective? Huh? They can be, and do not necessitate the need for a whole new section. We are *not* a chat service and a forum for inane, off topic posts is not required for this board to function. At all. We've implimented more than enough ways of member bonding. At the behest of the members.

And how "much" of the member base is saying they want spam, outside of the oldies from ACF? That's not a majority. That's just the ACF people saying they want spam. And I don't see how someone who wants a spam section, a section unrelated to this FF board is any weightier than ours in our judgment of whether there should be one or not.

We've been listening and have said no. Why is "no" not being understood? We can listen and still not change our mind. You just don't accept that we disagree and aren't for it.

Our reasoning is just as solid too then, because you just want a spam section. It's not needed to bring members together, and while you think it won't distract, we do. And from ACF's example, it has shown, it does.

 

[A]

It's not necessarily a big loss if there's no spam section here though.

Because it's entertaining to watch.

QFT.

 

[Vixenish]

What's the point of keeping this thread open when no one will reach an agreement?

We may not agree but we need to be able to see the others side. Until effective communication is had the members will not be able to agree to disagree. THAT agreement is the point of keeping the thread open. If you don't have that then a new thread will pop up in a week and you have to do it all all over again. (That's not a hypothesis. That's learned from experience.)

 

[Ⓐaron]

We've implimented teams, have General Chat, Chit Chat, and Member Groups. We have MORE than enough avenues and channels for bringing members together and bonding. We don't need to add a spam section.

Why not, because you say so? I've already explained multiple times why Chit Chat and General Chat are inadequate. Member Groups suck so much that people want teams created, and you've said you're not going to allow spam in those either. So it still doesn't solve people's issues.

That's your opinion. We don't feel that way. We feel the way things are, are just fine.

Obviously a significant portion of the member base does not feel things are just fine, and judging from the amount of drama this forum is suffering from right now, you'd have to be pretty damned daft to think this forum is perfect right now.

Again, that's your opinion. We do, and don't feel the need to open that can of worms because the cons outweigh the pro's.

You haven't named a single "con" that isn't completely hypothetical or hasn't been thoroughly rebutted.

Then they can chat or go to PM. Or use Chit Chat. This is a forum, not a chat service. We have more than enough avenues and venues for members to meet, bond, and chat. And if they aren't enough, let them just go off the forum and CHAT in real time.

So because members don't want to keep up with thirty new pages of posts a day in Chit Chat, they have to rely on PM or IMs? That doesn't have anywhere the same dynamics as the forum. PM can only talk to one person at a time, it can't be a large group bonding experience like an off-topic section is. With IM you have to respond in real time, so if people aren't there they miss out, and people have to come up with responses on the fly and can't think shit out before they present it.

Then just go chat one on one via MSN or PM. We don't need to be a chat service here. We're an FF discussion forum NOT a chat relay service.

No one's asking to turn this place into a chat relay service, we're just asking for ways to discuss each other's bodily parts and other such topics without getting shat on.