Spam discussion thread

[Megatron]

Furthermore, we believe it's a distraction from the main forum and focus of the site.

Errr, how?

One subforum at the bottom of the page can't possibly distract from the rest of the board, and it especially can't distract people who don't want any part of it, because they'll never even click it.

That's got to be one of the most bizarre explanations I've heard yet.

 

[Max Payne]

You haven't named a single "con" that isn't completely hypothetical or hasn't been thoroughly rebutted.

Thoroughly rebutted? You haven't proved anyone's comments here wrong. You have no evidence that things won't turn out as such, and you're still only saying this based off your opinion of how things will unfold.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Why are they not effective? Huh? They can be, and do not necessitate the need for a whole new section. We are *not* a chat service and a forum for inane, off topic posts is not required for this board to function. At all. We've implimented more than enough ways of member bonding. At the behest of the members.

And how "much" of the member base is saying they want spam, outside of the oldies from ACF? That's not a majority. That's just the ACF people saying they want spam. And I don't see how someone who wants a spam section, a section unrelated to this FF board is any weightier than ours in our judgment of whether there should be one or not.

We've been listening and have said no. Why is "no" not being understood? We can listen and still not change our mind. You just don't accept that we disagree and aren't for it.

Our reasoning is just as solid too then, because you just want a spam section. It's not needed to bring members together, and while you think it won't distract, we do. And from ACF's example, it has shown, it does.

ACF's spam section isn't even remotely comparable to what's being proposed by everyone in this thread arguing for an off-topic section, and former ACF members make up more than half of this community's member base.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Thoroughly rebutted? You haven't proved anyone's comments here wrong. You have no evidence that things won't turn out as such, and you're still only saying this based off your opinion of how things will unfold.

I've provided plenty of reasoning in favour of my arguments for why a spam forum would of use to members here, which is simply being ignored. I also have over seven years of running forums and learning from my mistakes to draw upon, and have come to the conclusion that allowing more discussion is generally far more conducive to all forms of forum activity than restricting it.

 

[Max Payne]

I'm sorry that you're incapable of telling the difference between opinion and reasoning.

Your reasoning is based off your opinion of past experiences. It's still not any evidence as to how your points are irrefutable. There's no indication that a spam section would be beneficial to the board as a whole.

And weren't you the one chastising people for being sarcastic?

 

[Vixenish]

Wait...'we are not a chat service'? You're providing a place for people to communicate. Regardless of the type of communication you're aiming for they're going to want to talk about things with the community that don't fall under the chosen topics. Not providing a place for that makes one feel disconnected from the community and prevents them from wanting to stay here rather than going somewhere with a good community feel. And when people are talking in that manner they don't want to be restricted to the original topic.

Imagine catching up with an old friend and having that friend only be ok with discussing outfit even if that discussion led to other things and having her tell you that you've gone off topic. It ruins the mood and you don't want to talk with her anymore...We're asking for a place where a community could have multiple discussions that move from one topic to the next, and where the topics aren't as restricted. It doesn't have to be the atmosphere of a spam forum, more like a couple groups of friends chatting.

In otherwords, one chitchat thread isn't cutting it due to the restrictions placed on the thread and the speed with which people post. If you write more than 'lol, totally agree' the thread has moved on and it prevents legitimate additions to the conversation.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Your reasoning is based off your opinion of past experiences. It's still not any evidence as to how your points are irrefutable.

I never said they were irrefutable, I said they were thorough. Furthermore, I have seven years of experience administering forums to run off of. How much do you have?

And weren't you the one chastising people for being sarcastic?

Ergo why I edited my post bub.

 

[Atticus]

And how "much" of the member base is saying they want spam, outside of the oldies from ACF? That's not a majority. That's just the ACF people saying they want spam.

Seems that if it wasn't for the ACF community, this one wouldn't be here. Now you're just saying our vote doesn't count?

One subforum at the bottom of the page can't possibly distract from the rest of the board, and it especially can't distract people who don't want any part of it, because they'll never even click it.

THIS.

 

[Max Payne]

I don't have anything else to say until the rest of the memberbase decides to get involved. We're just going back and forth now.

 

[A]

I don't have anything else to say until the rest of the memberbase decides to get involved. We're just going back and forth now.

I don't think the rest of the memberbase cares about a chit chat thread, tbh.

 

[Max Payne]

Good point.

Moving.

 

[Atticus]

I don't think the rest of the memberbase cares about a chit chat thread, tbh.

And they don't know what they're missing.

 

[Makoeyes987]

So how much more do you need, until you get what you want? Because that's what it's boiling down to. The fact we have 5 different avenues for members to "bond" (GC, Chit Chat, PMs, Teams, and Member Groups) means nothing and you and the members who want a spam section will not be happy until you get what you want. It's not about an avenue to bond, because if it were, the implementations of said bonding would be enough, but you want a spam section. This is an impasse. How are 5 different avenues woefully inadequate? If there were, why is it that members outside of ACF oldies aren't complaining about it?

There isn't a "significant portion." There's 10 members from my count. All previous members of ACF wanting a spam forum. That's not significant. Furthermore, the drama has once again, been..from oldies from ACF who frequented the spam forum and want one. That's not indicative of anything but a vocal minority wanting a spam forum. I'm not seeing a large outcry for a spam section here from the user base at large.

And pretty much any pro or con in this situation is hypothetical since it's not being made and we're not using past events here on this forum. We're going by our own judgment and opinions here.

Again, we're not a damn chat service so we don't have to cater to offering a "dynamic" P2P experience for members to chat. This is a forum not a playground and meeting place for people. This is a forum for communicating in a forum, discussion format. That is its primary goal. We are not here to offer chit chat, avenues for spam, or making it easier to communicate in a dynamic way. Those amenities are secondary and not required at all.

 

[Geostigma]

I just dont get why you guys are so against adding another section, when i go to bed i cba to to reread shit in chit chat and i know no one else cba either.
The recent string of agressive thread closing sucks as well , you dont want to give us a section for topics that are slightly out of the norm but your surprised those kind of topics appear in GC?

I cba to read past the first page and i apologize for having left during the day and not having kept up , i honestly thought this was gonna get closed

Tbh i wasnt even aware this thread was going to get this type of response but oh well if it helps out the member base so be it.
Also unban L plx?

Edit: Honestly mako i think if this one last thing was added everyone would STFU and go on there ways and everything would be fine

 

[A]

And they don't know what they're missing.

It's not the end of the world if there's no spam section.

 

[Megatron]

We may not agree but we need to be able to see the others side. Until effective communication is had the members will not be able to agree to disagree.

Eh, good luck with that, especially since the whole thread has been like:

People In Support of Spam (hereafter referred to as PISS) - Hay guys we liek spam k?

Staff who Hate the Idea Terribly (hereafter referred to as SHIT) - No.

PISS - *reasons we think it would be cool*

SHIT - *ignores reasons, refers to prior sayings of No as reason for saying No*

PISS - Srsly, we has cool idea

SHIT - We have shiny admin clicky button, we close threads. Also, No.

PISS - Mmmmkay, but rly, it's not that bad of an idea, and would be fun

SHIT - No.

PISS - Uh, care to tell us why you're saying no?

SHIT - No.

PISS - ...are you even listening?

SHIT - No.

...ad infinitum

 

[Max Payne]

L broke the rules, he's going to serve his time for it. He'll be back.

 

[Alex]

L's always back

Also Gabe I'm sure this thread was closed, and then reopened again.

 

[Ⓐaron]

So how much more do you need, until you get what you want? Because that's what it's boiling down to. The fact we have 5 different avenues for members to "bond" (GC, Chit Chat, PMs, Teams, and Member Groups) means nothing and you and the members who want a spam section will not be happy until you get what you want. It's not about an avenue to bond, because if it were, the implementations of said bonding would be enough, but you want a spam section. This is an impasse. How are 5 different avenues woefully inadequate? If there were, why is it that members outside of ACF oldies aren't complaining about it?

None of those avenues of bonding is the kind of bonding people want, because spam is only allowed in chit chat, which receives far too much activity in a far too entropic fashion to make it the kind of bonding people want. I've already explained why it doesn't suffice to people, you're just completely ignoring it.

There isn't a "significant portion." There's 10 members from my count. All previous members of ACF wanting a spam forum. That's not significant. Furthermore, the drama has once again, been..from oldies from ACF who frequented the spam forum and want one. That's not indicative of anything but a vocal minority wanting a spam forum. I'm not seeing a large outcry for a spam section here from the user base at large.

So just because the whole forum doesn't want it it won't be added? Why are teams okay but an off-topic section isn't?

And pretty much any pro or con in this situation is hypothetical since it's not being made and we're not using past events here on this forum. We're going by our own judgment and opinions here.

Claiming that you're not using past events on this forum when your entire reason for opposing a spam section is based on experiences with ACF's spam section - which is completely different from what's being proposed here - is pretty odd.

Again, we're not a damn chat service so we don't have to cater to offering a "dynamic" P2P experience for members to chat. This is a forum not a playground and meeting place for people. This is a forum for communicating in a forum, discussion format. That is its primary goal. We are not here to offer chit chat, avenues for spam, or making it easier to communicate in a dynamic way. Those amenities are secondary and not required at all.

Just because a section says "off-topic" doesn't mean there will be no discussion in it. Actually, in my experience that's often where the discussion is the most interesting.

As far as L, he absolutely deserved his banning, and this is coming from someone who's disagreed with a large chunk of staff actions today.

 

[Geostigma]

L broke the rules, he's going to serve his time for it. He'll be back.

Fair enough i saw it coming anyway XD

Anyway tbh if not a spam section 121 would be the shit atleast.

 

[Atticus]

There isn't a "significant portion." There's 10 members from my count. All previous members of ACF wanting a spam forum. That's not significant. Furthermore, the drama has once again, been..from oldies from ACF who frequented the spam forum. That's not indicative of anything but a vocal minority wanting a spam forum. I'm not seeing a large outcry for a spam section here.

Just wait. Give it time. Why are you always so twitchy to close these things before people that aren't even here have a chance to say?

Again, we're not a damn chat service so we don't have to cater to offering a "dynamic" P2P experience for members to chat. This is a forum not a playground and meeting place for people.

Who wants a P2P experience? Forum chat that doesn't have to have a direction is the greatest thing on the internet. It definitely can't hurt your forum. imo, spam was never a very big majority on ACF. I never saw it as a big problem. Scandels by mods like Darkbeat and SW were bigger problems.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?p=63037#post63037

Please READ THIS LINK and then make a post if you feel so inclined.

I'm going to be the final word on this.

PERIOD.



X

 

[Makoeyes987]

So you want us to do exactly what you want, when you want it, because the various avenues we have implemented that we feel fits in with our desired theme for the forum and site while also appeasing the member base isn't good enough? Is that not spoiled? Again, you are not speaking for a majority, and if the site owner and admin's wishes mean fuck all then there's a problem. There's a line where in the end the site owner and admins make a choice and decision based on the idea, terms of service, and theme of the site, and this is one of them. Why this can't be respected and accepted is beyond me.

Teams are okay because there was discussion, we felt it worked, we wanted to see the member's thoughts on the matter, and that was that. We felt teams wouldn't go against the forum or be a problem or anything.

Yes, I'm not using past experiences from TLS to make my opinion and judgment on a spam section because this forum has never had one. Meaning, it's still a hypothetical. Either way, there is no real experience here for one. But just like your reasoning, its a hypothetical. That doesn't mean anything. It's our choice and belief.

 

[Max Payne]

mako, post in X's thread stoopid

 

[Makoeyes987]

X's post happened right when I was quick replying, my bad.