Star Wars: Episode 7, 8... and BEYOND!

[Hisako]

Ya know people keep bringing up the point about a lack of new themes for the characters, but I feel like both Kylo Ren and Rey had clearly recognizable music that was consistently associated with their characters. Hell, in Rey's case its even called Rey's Theme on the soundtrack.

I just feel like there wasn't an incredible abundance of themes being thrown into the spotlight. John Williams' Star Wars music feels like it either follows the scene, or that the scene is built for the music.
I haven't studied musicianship in any degree for a while, so I'm mostly talking out of my ass, but even The Phantom Menace has a lot of quiet, slow scenes (maybe excessively so) that focus almost entirely on the visual aspect of it, which lets ones like Anakin's Theme take the fore with a lot of subtleties. Apart from the beginning (which I really, really enjoyed, btw), it feels like there aren't a lot of opportunities for the music in The Force Awakens to set the pace for the scene.

Also conspicuous is the absence of a central, main theme, though not exactly a mandatory thing.

 

[Charles Xavier]

It seems Disney Infinity might have revealed a big spoiler regarding Episode 8:

http://me.ign.com/en/movies/114174/news/disney-infinity-didnt-actually-spoil-episode-8s-bi

 

[Tetsujin]

I'm confused. The article says the opposite...

 

[Charles Xavier]

I'm confused. The article says the opposite...

Sorry, my bad. It almost WAS a spoiler though.

 

[Lex]

Star Wars play arts by Square-Enix 0_0

EDIT: Oh this is old. But still, they look cool XD

 

[Ite]

Just saw it for the second time. Bearing in mind confirmation bias, I am now totally convinced that

Spoiler

Snoke is Tarkin and Rey is Han and Leia's daughter.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Just saw it for the second time. Bearing in mind confirmation bias, I am now totally convinced that

Spoiler

Snoke is Tarkin and Rey is Han and Leia's daughter.

Spoiler

Snoke is Tarkin? What? Tarkin blew the fuck up didn't he?

 

[Ghost X]

@Ite: Why? How?

 

[Jason Tandro]

Just saw it for the second time. Bearing in mind confirmation bias, I am now totally convinced that

Spoiler

Snoke is Tarkin and Rey is Han and Leia's daughter.

Spoiler

Maz is Jar Jar Bink's half daughter with one of the jizz-wailers from Max Rebo's band

 

[Hisako]

heh
jizz

 

[Tennyo]

Spoiler

 

[Jason Tandro]

Spoiler

 

[T@ctic]

thought i was boring - really boring.

Spoiler

the only cool thing was the special effects of when solo's son stopped the lazer. oh and the new stormtrooper weapon.

oh well, i wasn't hyped to see it in the first place.

 

[Shademp]

'Come to the dark side' vine

Coolerz

 

[lithiumkatana17]

Well, amidst all of the holiday hullabaloo, I finally got a chance to sit down and see this damn movie yesterday. I had already spoiled everything for myself here on the forums, and I also saw a lot of the criticisms people had of the movie.

Some thoughts off the type of my head, because I don't feel like writing a whole page right now:

Spoiler

Captain Phasma. I agree with what seems to be the consensus--way too hyped up for too small of a role in this movie. I hoped this is remedied in the future. Gwendoline Christie has too much talent to be reduced to a role like this. I want to see more to this female stormtrooper.

Kylo Ren. I think the best decision they made with this movie was portraying him as a young, immature villain-to-be with the temper tantrums of a five-year old. It makes him more interesting, and much more fun to watch than the typical villain with the personality of a board that completely has his shit together. He's a very torn young man, and I hope we get to see more of that.

I'll say more about individual characters later. This is what I really have to say about the film.

What The Force Awakens did the best was diversifying the cast from past movies. But they definitely played it safe with the plot, bringing in a lot of the same plot cliches we've seen in past SW movies, and the whole story overall just felt like something I'd seen before. If it were a different writing team, the results could have been horrendous.

All in all, I thought it was a great movie, and an awesome start to a new trilogy. It casts off the shadow of the prequels, and I would definitely go see it again.

I'll be honest; working in retail ruined the hype of it for me, and while I did like the movie, I didn't feel as if it were worth the insane amount of products and marketing Disney did for the film, but oh well, corporate greed at its finest.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

In one version of the film

Spoiler

there was a dark Anakin Force Ghost, which would match up with the scene where Kylo Ren was talking to Vader, and it also addresses the fact that Luke is a Jedi who is more accepting of the Dark Side in himself, unlike the old, dogmatic prequel Jedi. There's art and more details here: http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/12/hayden-christensen-star-wars-the-force-awakens-anakin

X

 

[lithiumkatana17]

In one version of the film

Spoiler

there was a dark Anakin Force Ghost, which would match up with the scene where Kylo Ren was talking to Vader, and it also addresses the fact that Luke is a Jedi who is more accepting of the Dark Side in himself, unlike the old, dogmatic prequel Jedi. There's art and more details here: http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/12/hayden-christensen-star-wars-the-force-awakens-anakin

X

Yeah, I saw that yesterday.

Spoiler

While I don't care for Hayden Christensen, that concept art is pretty freakin' badass, and idea is too awesome to ignore I would love it if they did do something like this in future installments, having Kylo Ren cooking up images of his grandfather's ghost, or something like that.

In other words, I went shopping at Kohl's today and got a badass Kylo Ren Hallmark Christmas ornament for like 6 bucks because all the seasonal crap is on sale. It's pretty good quality.

Be envious, motherfuckers.

Spoiler

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Saw it again last night to have one last go in 2015, and picked up on a couple things.

Spoiler

At the very start of the film, Lor San Tekka (played my Max Von Sydow) mentions that there can be no balance to the Force without the Jedi. This is interesting, because it's THE singular thing that Anakin's role in the prophesy was supposed to have brought about (which The Clone Wars clarified was because both the Jedi and the Sith were essentially destroyed because of him).

What we know now is that Luke and Snoke were the singular Light side and Dark side users left at the end of all of this -- balance.

Luke starts his Jedi Academy and starts tipping the balance towards the Light, then Snoke takes up arms against Luke's Jedi Academy through manipulating Ben Solo (and the Knights of Ren) into slaughtering them, and thus tipping the balance back to the Dark as Luke goes into exile.

So, what we've managed to reach in The Force Awakens is a Balance in the Force again - Snoke & Kylo Ren, and Luke & Rey.

While I'm still of the opinion that this is ALSO the Skywalker legacy with Ben Solo/Kylo Ren being the Vader side and Rey being the Anakin side (which I'll get to in a minute), this is of importance to what it means for the rivalry relationship between Kylo Ren & Rey – they might BOTH need to exist and not fall/be redeemed in order to maintain a balance in the Force that's manageable.


Also, the fact that Kylo Ren talks about Han Solo being, "the father that [Rey] never had" when her family abandoned her, make me wonder if that's an implication that she didn't know her father at all (which would match with being a kid Luke didn't know about). Additionally, the whole conversation with Maz about her family never coming back, but Luke being the person who could still be there for her makes me feel pretty confident that she's his kid (not to mention all of the visual cues and other things like – her Rebel Helmet & Rebel Pilot doll, Living in the toppled AT-AT, growing up on a Desert Planet, ability to talk to BB-8 & Chewbacca, Anakin's Lightsaber calling to her, her Force vision of Cloud City, etc.) I still feel that she's all Skywalker to the core.

I'm getting the Art, Visual Guide, & Cross Section books in about a week, and I'm quite excited to pour over them.




X

 

[Lord Noctis]

Saw it again last night to have one last go in 2015, and picked up on a couple things.

Spoiler

At the very start of the film, Lor San Tekka (played my Max Von Sydow) mentions that there can be no balance to the Force without the Jedi. This is interesting, because it's THE singular thing that Anakin's role in the prophesy was supposed to have brought about (which The Clone Wars clarified was because both the Jedi and the Sith were essentially destroyed because of him).

What we know now is that Luke and Snoke were the singular Light side and Dark side users left at the end of all of this -- balance.

Luke starts his Jedi Academy and starts tipping the balance towards the Light, then Snoke takes up arms against Luke's Jedi Academy through manipulating Ben Solo (and the Knights of Ren) into slaughtering them, and thus tipping the balance back to the Dark as Luke goes into exile.

So, what we've managed to reach in The Force Awakens is a Balance in the Force again - Snoke & Kylo Ren, and Luke & Rey.

While I'm still of the opinion that this is ALSO the Skywalker legacy with Ben Solo/Kylo Ren being the Vader side and Rey being the Anakin side (which I'll get to in a minute), this is of importance to what it means for the rivalry relationship between Kylo Ren & Rey – they might BOTH need to exist and not fall/be redeemed in order to maintain a balance in the Force that's manageable.


Also, the fact that Kylo Ren talks about Han Solo being, "the father that [Rey] never had" when her family abandoned her, make me wonder if that's an implication that she didn't know her father at all (which would match with being a kid Luke didn't know about). Additionally, the whole conversation with Maz about her family never coming back, but Luke being the person who could still be there for her makes me feel pretty confident that she's his kid (not to mention all of the visual cues and other things like – her Rebel Helmet & Rebel Pilot doll, Living in the toppled AT-AT, growing up on a Desert Planet, ability to talk to BB-8 & Chewbacca, Anakin's Lightsaber calling to her, her Force vision of Cloud City, etc.) I still feel that she's all Skywalker to the core.

I'm getting the Art, Visual Guide, & Cross Section books in about a week, and I'm quite excited to pour over them.




X

Spoiler

That really doesn't work though. I do not believe for one second that the balance of the force has anything to do with the number of Jedi vs. the number of sith or other darksiders. If it worked that way then the force should have been leaning massively towards the light during the prequels, but we know that the opposite is true.

It seems more likely to me that dark side itself is the source of imbalance in the wider force, which makes since the dark side is chaotic and disruptive by nature.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Spoiler

That really doesn't work though. I do not believe for one second that the balance of the force has anything to do with the number of Jedi vs. the number of sith or other darksiders. If it worked that way then the force should have been leaning massively towards the light during the prequels, but we know that the opposite is true.

It seems more likely to me that dark side itself is the source of imbalance in the wider force, which makes since the dark side is chaotic and disruptive by nature.

Spoiler

I think that it has to do with several things, much of which has to do with the consolidation of power. While there were only two Sith (and various pseudo-apprentices), Palpatine was manipulating both sides to his own Dark side-focused ends. The Clone Wars episodes "Altar or Mortis" and "Ghosts of Mortis" were pretty clear about the balance in the Force being technically achieved when both sides were essentially obliterated. While that conflict was motivated by the actions of the Dark Side, both sides (or none) are needed to have balance and the Dark Side itself isn't the source of imbalance at all.

Additionally, somehow it slipped by me that Rian Johnson is writing both Episodes VIII AND IX, even though Colin Trevorrow is directing IX, so the episodic stuff is all gonna be in his wheelhouse from here on out (still working with JJ, since he's producing) which should make it interesting and much different.



X

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Finally saw this.

Will simply say that The Force is very strong with this one.

 

[Charles Xavier]

Spoiler

To those who still believe that Rey is Han's daughter or Obi-Wan's...

Case being Han's: why didn't Han or Leia even recognize, let alone acknowledge the fact that their own daughter was right in front of them in the flesh? Why didn't Han (or Leia again) sense her presence as his own daughter like how he sensed Kylo Ren's presence as his own son? Was there any reason or point for them to hold back any truth from Rey? No, I don't think so...

Case being Obi-Wan's: guys, do you realize how old Obi must have been when Rey was born? It's sick to think that an old man banged a young chick and-oh God, no...

And besides, Rey was born 11 years AFTER the Battle of Endor, which in turn happened years after Obi Wan was killed by Darth Vader. So how could it be logically possible to say that Rey is Obi's kid?

*crickets*

Yep, I thought so too. I rest my case.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Not to mention that

Spoiler

the only person Obi-Wan was ever romantically drawn to was murdered in front of him by Darth Maul during the Clone Wars.

X

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Spoiler

Case being Han's: why didn't Han or Leia even recognize, let alone acknowledge the fact that their own daughter was right in front of them in the flesh?

Spoiler

I could see this not being a problem for the simple reason that if they lost her long enough ago, they wouldn't recognize her any more than Vader initially recognized Luke.

Spoiler

Why didn't Han (or Leia again) sense her presence as his own daughter like how he sensed Kylo Ren's presence as his own son?

Spoiler

Not sure if you're referencing something set before the movie, but Han already knew Kylo was their son here. Also, Han's not a Jedi or Force-sensitive (that I'm aware of), so there's no reason to expect him to sense anything like that.

As for Leia and that question, it would still apply if Rey were Luke's kid. Why wouldn't she sense that this was her niece? Whatever the reason, she just didn't. Maybe she never trained in The Force beyond where she was at the end of RotJ.



Finally, though you didn't ask this question, they never explicitly said Ben was the only child they ever had. All their conversations about him were, well, about him. Depending on how long ago they lost Rey (for whatever reason), the daughter they lost a long time ago may have had no relevance in the present when discussing the son they lost much more recently.

Personally, I am more inclined to think this is Han and Leia's kid right now due to the similarities between she and Han, and probably at least in part due to lingering memories of the old Expanded Universe (now "Star Wars Legends") material, in which they had a son go Sith but also had a daughter who opposed and defeated him.

Not that I'm saying she can't be Luke's kid. I doubt he would be inclined to take the monastic lifestyle of the old Jedi order just because they did it that way. For all we know, he could have been smashing everything with a pussy up until he sent himself into exile after things went to shit with Kylo.

Anyway, she's obviously a member of that family at the very least, and either Luke or Leia's kid.

 

[Charles Xavier]

Spoiler

Case being Han's: why didn't Han or Leia even recognize, let alone acknowledge the fact that their own daughter was right in front of them in the flesh?

Spoiler

I could see this not being a problem for the simple reason that if they lost her long enough ago, they wouldn't recognize her any more than Vader initially recognized Luke.

Spoiler

Why didn't Han (or Leia again) sense her presence as his own daughter like how he sensed Kylo Ren's presence as his own son?

Spoiler

Not sure if you're referencing something set before the movie, but Han already knew Kylo was their son here. Also, Han's not a Jedi or Force-sensitive (that I'm aware of), so there's no reason to expect him to sense anything like that.

As for Leia and that question, it would still apply if Rey were Luke's kid. Why wouldn't she sense that this was her niece? Whatever the reason, she just didn't. Maybe she never trained in The Force beyond where she was at the end of RotJ.



Finally, though you didn't ask this question, they never explicitly said Ben was the only child they ever had. All their conversations about him were, well, about him. Depending on how long ago they lost Rey (for whatever reason), the daughter they lost a long time ago may have had no relevance in the present when discussing the son they lost much more recently.

Personally, I am more inclined to think this is Han and Leia's kid right now due to the similarities between she and Han, and probably at least in part due to lingering memories of the old Expanded Universe (now "Star Wars Legends") material, in which they had a son go Sith but also had a daughter who opposed and defeated him.

Not that I'm saying she can't be Luke's kid. I doubt he would be inclined to take the monastic lifestyle of the old Jedi order just because they did it that way. For all we know, he could have been smashing everything with a pussy up until he sent himself into exile after things went to shit with Kylo.

Anyway, she's obviously a member of that family at the very least, and either Luke or Leia's kid.

Fair points, man. Let me get back to you on that a little later.

Something else I have in question. Did Kenny Baker reprise or not reprise his role as R2-D2? I'm getting conflicting reports on that, and also whether or not he attended the premiere of FA in LA last month?