Supernatural [TV Show - Spoilers]

Lex

Administrator
#1
There have been two threads on this topic - one hasn't been posted in since 2010 and the other was made by a member who is now banned, and was also in the clubs section. Me making this thread is almost entirely pointless, but given I've been following the show for 15 years I thought I'd create a central location to discuss it.

There's some new blood on the board too, so maybe there'll be some more fans!

Here are the old threads for reference:

Show thread
Club thread

Feel free to discuss any aspect of the show, but tag your spoilers. I'm currently on Season 14, Episode 7. I understand that Season 15 will be the show's last, but that it's currently on hiatus due to COVID-19. I think we can all agree (whether you're a fan or not) that the show has lived long beyond the point any of us thought it would.

Without going into spoilers, I think the show has had its ups and downs. I generally vibe with the idea that it was at its best during S1 - S5, but I would go so far as to argue some arcs in S10 - S15 have outshone it. For example they've introduced a character named Jack I thought I'd absolutely hate, but I actually love what his introduction has done to some of the character dynamics on the show.
 
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The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#2
Without going into spoilers, I think the show has had its ups and downs.
:wacky:

Lex said:
I generally vibe with the idea that it was at its best during S1 - S5, but I would go so far as to argue some arcs in S10 - S15 have outshone it.
Oh, jeez, I would not go that far.

Lex said:
For example they've introduced a character named Jack I thought I'd absolutely hate, but I actually love what his introduction has done to some of the character dynamics on the show.
But I will give you that.
---

Mainly they've been on a hamster wheel now since ... oh, gosh ... 2010? There's only so many times they can do the "former adversary-newfound ally offers themselves up as a sacrificial distraction to the current season's Big Bad" maneuver. They've done it so many times now that one character has done it twice, and both roles have even been occupied by the same character in different seasons!
 

Lestat

I see hell in your eyes
AKA
Ergo, V
#3
I think they lost their way a long time ago within the show.

Don't know about anyone else but I much preferred it when they were just driving around America saving folk and kicking ass with the occasional apocalypse thrown in once or twice for plot pushing.

They went too deep into messing with the past and as such the dynamic that made them great kinda fell apart.

I mean cmon, their mum and dad have both died as major plot moments only to be resurrected
 

Lex

Administrator
#4
I dunno I just think the episodes "Fan Fiction" and "Don't Call Me Shurley" were two of the best episodes ever, and they were both in recent seasons :monster:

I particularly liked the
Chuck storyline, though I wasn't crazy about Amara.

My prevailing issue with the show overall has been Crowley.

but they finally actually killed him. Tres is this who you were referring to? I'm so happy he's gone it's not even funny. I didn't mind him, vaguely for a season or two but when they repeatedly refused to kill him when they had the chance I got so mad at it. And he stuck around for like.... 10 seasons longer than he should have done. I don't know why they kept him on the show for so long.
 

Lex

Administrator
#7
I'm up to date and now I'm sad that the show is on hiatus until they can air the final 7 episodes ;-;

That season 14 finale was spectacular! And every episode of S15 has been good so far. You can tell they're throwing a lot at it because it's the final season. I often feel like I've watched a whole episode (i.e. a case has been investigated and resolved) only to find out that we're just halfway through the ep. I like it.

Also what a fucking song

 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#9
Rowan raises good questions, and efficiently lays out the numerous possible outcomes for this development, though I think where I -- as a non-queer person, mind -- am looking at this is that if this had been done ten seasons ago, or five seasons ago ... or even two seasons ago ... we would not have seen the X number of years of such a relationship being explored, as she and others suggest. The tone of a show like this demands Something Tragic™ always occur.

The only chance for a main character's romantic association on this show to not end in Bury Your Gays (or Your Straights, as the case may be :monster: ) is if it comes up at the very end of the series. As it stands, we've seen a character confess their feelings for Dean and then promptly die before this, and we've already seen a hetero couple only end up happy together in the afterlife.

Obviously both of these notions have a more historically loaded context where queer romance is concerned, but I think the context of Just ... This Show, Man™ is really the overriding context in play. Or maybe I'm wrong?

I want to add also, though, that Rowan brought up "The 100" as an example of another show -- relevantly, another CW show -- that purportedly demonstrates some of the common queer misery tropes being discussed in the video, but that example from "The 100" isn't great. The actor of the character in question asked to leave the show so that she could go do a lead role on "Fear the Walking Dead," and even more so than on "Supernatural," romantic interests on "The 100" didn't just non-tragically wander off to parts unknown.

It probably also bears mention that "The 100" had multiple explicitly queer characters and relationships throughout its run, including more than one involving its main character. At the end of the series even, one of the only two established couples to still have its participants alive is a queer couple that were together for the final three seasons*, so I don't believe the CW is opposed to the notion with "Supernatural."

* I suspect they only fared so well because they occupied a role somewhere between main character and supporting character for most of the show.

Both started out as supporting characters among the recurring cast, then one gradually became more prominent over the following three seasons until he became someone you might mention in the same breath as the main cast for the final three seasons. The other never quite got to that point, but he likewise had become far more significant as the show went on.

Ironically, "The 100" angered a sizable segment of its viewers three episodes before the end by killing off a character part of a hetero fanship many said they were baited into watching for since season one. :wacky:
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#10
....Are we sure there's absolutely zero chance Castiel can come back to life, like at the end of all this?

I'm 3 or 4 seasons behind so I'll admit I'm not entirely sure what happened, however I heard about this and part of me wonders if they're setting up a surprising revival at the series end and that would be somewhat hilarious. Granted, killing God would kinda leave a void for someone to do such a thing but stranger things have happened...
 

Lex

Administrator
#11
I can't speak to The 100 as I haven't watched it.

What I will say is that I fall slightly short of finding the "Destiel is canon" moment ridiculous because I've been following the show and no romance has ever fared well. Though this definitely falls into the Bury Your Gays trope - and rather terribly, twice within one episode. I had forgotten about it by the time I finished watching it, and so had Rowan by the time she was doing her analysis, but Charlie's beau-to-be was also vanished into nothingness right at the beginning of the episode immediately following the two of them having a sweet moment(tm).

so I don't believe the CW is opposed to the notion with "Supernatural."
Supernatural is a very different beast from any kind of modern show on the CW, even just by virtue of the fact that it's been on for 15 years. The tone of the show can be quite homophobic in the earlier seasons, and obviously a certain image has been cultivated of the two main characters for as long as the show has been on. Given that; I'm shocked the last episode even went as far as it did, and I was pleasantly surprised by it.

I can't be mad at them for not developing a romantic relationship between them earlier, because the show has never really been about romantic relationships (and no romantic relationship on the show has ever lasted).

But ugh, it's annoyingly complex when it comes to this show because of how involved the actors and writers are with the fandom. It's well known that Jensen Ackles doesn't really like talking about the ship - to the point where people have (I believe incorrectly) labelled him homophobic for shutting down questions in the past. Regardless, he is absolutely coded as a closet bisexual on the show, and he and Misha (but moreso Misha) have both leaned on the ship either for laughs or just to stoke the flames a bit.

Anyway I guess we have two episodes to see how this is going to be addressed (if at all) though I did see somewhere that the script for this episode says "Dean cannot reciprocate" after Cas's confession. I hope they just leave it open ended rather than go the extra mile and make Dean "no homo" the situation when he's explaining it to like, Sam or whatever. It would be a very This Show thing to do.

....Are we sure there's absolutely zero chance Castiel can come back to life, like at the end of all this?
It would be poor writing to bring Cas back after that, so it's probably going to happen lmao. There's no telling what's going to happen in the next two episodes :monster:

They'll probably bring him back as a woman so Dean can finally justify feeling attraction to Cas :desu:
 

Maidenofwar

Pro Adventurer
#14
I thought I had escaped this show yet here we are.

Last week my twitter feed explode with PUTIN RESIGN TRENDING WITH SUPERNATURAL AND DESTIEL, with so much going on with the US election, news about a possible Putin resignation, some group apparently doing music again after 15 years or something and then everybody yelling DESTIEL CANON it was all kind of overwhelming especially with all the running on fumes and everything from the lack of sleep while it was going on, felt like I was teetering on the edge of instability until I finally got some good rest and recuperation in, before that I wasn't that sure that I hadn't teetered off the abyss into a AU universe something ;p

So I watched most seasons of this show and then stopped, and I think there's like at least three I haven't seen. However I was not involved in the SPN fandom on twitter, my main fandoms were Gotham and now It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, but sometimes sit com twitter collides with SPN twitter and I find out things such as people are saying tonight is a bucklemming episode? whatever that means.

Anyway Castiel was one of my favourite characters and I am happy he came out but not happy he had to die after and I am also not sure about the hell/superhell thing because of the years since I've watched it I've forgot a lot about how that world/universe/lore, etc works. Coming out and then going/getting sent/taken to hell seems a really what the way of things but according to some twitter people everything is not quite as it seems because the hell is a different sort of hell or something so not like condemnation/suffering/eternal torment/burn in hell type stuff, and that Castiel will just go to sleep and it'll be a kind of peace but I don't know, is still sus maybe.
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#15
The Empty is where special type of spiritual entities go to when killed. So Angels, Demons, etc. They apparently aren't annihilated when killed like we thought. They get sent to The Empty. Which is sorta like the Void, and yes. You're essentially "sleep" or something.

It beats Purgatory, where you basically enter a Level 99 Mob Hunt for eternity. :monster:
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#17
Whelp as I thought.

Cas ain't dead, but God's sure about to be, well now that he has no powers. :awesome:

Jack revived everybody and Dean explicitly wanted him back so....
I mean, that would make sense, but
why don't we see Cas or Adam or Charlie, etc. there at the end? Is it just to give Dean and Sam that quiet moment? Which, it's a great moment, don't get me wrong. I'm just left confused about the status of the many, many folks not present who logically should be.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#18
Might get a more concrete answer/appearance next week. Because they got one episode left so they gotta use it for something. :monster:

They could have ended it here and it'd work perfectly. But they got one episode left so... They clearly must have something to show or answer.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#20
Wow.

So... What did people think of that ending?

It's... Kinda funny. Even with the destruction of destiny and affirmation of free will... It kinda was destined to end that way, wasn't it?

I thought it was good. If... Kinda sad. Sorta gave me XV vibes, honestly.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#24
You can tell Covid kind of stripped out plenty of what they wanted to do. =( There should have been quite a few cameos and overt returns towards the end.

Maiden said:
Who was the random Sam got married to, was it supposed to be Eileen or?
That's what I'm going with. Maybe they couldn't reschedule Shoshannah Stern and just got someone who resembles her at a blurry distance.
but what happened with the super hell
Quick clarification on the "super hell" place: it's not a place of unending torture. It's just an empty place (called "The Empty") where the essences of dead angels and demons go. In this boring "afterlife," they just sleep. Though they apparently will dream of their greatest regrets, it's not entirely clear (at least to me) if this is something forced on them or just what they're prone to by nature.
 
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